BF2S Forums Mixed Emotions the Obama Win

lowing wrote:

TheAussieReaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

Sorry if you refuse to see the point I was making, I will try again, this time you can replace GFx cards with any luxery item you choose.

People are not in so bad of fthat they seem to be cutting back on technology/luxery items. In other words, if we are so bad off and people can not afford food and gas, where are they getting the money for all of this other bullshit?

Credit cards, lowing.

You can still be in huge debt and buy whatever luxury item you want.

Ut ohhhhhhhhhhhh, so you are telling me people going into debt is the solution? Or is it the problem? If it is the solution, then we should not have any issues to be solved because most of the people in the US are up to their gills in debt.

If it is the problem, then why are they going deeper into it, for shit other than food clothing etc. This would point to finacial irresponsibility and hardly anything more than a personal problem. It icetainly is not the govts. problem, nor is it my problem.

This brings us full circle to what I have been saying all along, there is no "economic crisis", there is a personal responsibility crisis, and all who exercise good judgement with money should not be held accountable for those that do not.

TheAussieReaper wrote:

Do you have any idea where the $700bn US went? It was put into banks so that people can still make home loans and car loans and not be crippled by high interest rates, or be refused outright.

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

lowing wrote:

from your source

"The Icelandic problems have nothing to do directly with American real estate. As Kerry Capell of BW writes:



With the privatization of the banking sector, completed in 2000, Iceland’s banks used substantial wholesale funding to finance their entry into the local mortgage market and acquire foreign financial firms, mainly in Britain and Scandinavia…In just five years, the banks went from being almost entirely domestic lenders to becoming major international financial intermediaries. In 2000, says Richard Portes, a professor of economics at London Business School, two-thirds of their financing came from domestic sources and one-third from abroad. More recently—until the crisis hit—that ratio was reversed. But as wholesale funding markets seized up, Iceland’s banks started to collapse under a mountain of foreign debt. "


Is their anything, in your eyes that is not the fault of the US or Bush?

You found one line in 861.000 google hits so you simply brush it off as related to the bubble that burst on wall street ?



I thought we discussed free markets not Bush tbh ...

Nope I didn't brush off anything, the article that YOU gave me did. regardless, France is almost bankrupt as well, and it has nothing to do with the US, instead it has everything to do with its socialism. Ya know, the therory that you do not have to provide for yourself because someone else eventually will?

Varegg wrote:

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

You found one line in 861.000 google hits so you simply brush it off as related to the bubble that burst on wall street ?



I thought we discussed free markets not Bush tbh ...

Nope I didn't brush off anything, the article that YOU gave me did. regardless, France is almost bankrupt as well, and it has nothing to do with the US, instead it has everything to do with its socialism. Ya know, the therory that you do not have to provide for yourself because someone else eventually will?

Whoa ... that was a turn i didn't quite expect

So you are saying the crisis in the US that again set of the crisis in the rest of the world started with sosialism in Europe ?

Nice twist lowing ...

lowing wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

lowing wrote:

No hardly, I do not consider stealing someone elses work and research as part of a free market. I feel it is essential for a means to protect ones work from theft. If it were not, why would people do any leg work at all and the end result would be no advances in anything.

So you are against free markets as I am.

High tech industry is based on stealing publicly funded research or buying it at a fraction of its costs and slapping a patent on it making it a monopoly market. The public funds the research and companies sell the product that the public paid to develop at monopoly prices. Nothing to do with free-market economics at all, and it completely prevents others from using the same publicly funded research to develop their own widgets.

You mean Dell, Alienware, Gateway, etc........ are all a monopoly and not competeing against each other for business?

Varegg wrote:

Now you make claims you cant back up lowing, how can we blame socialism for the crisis exactly ?

Last edited by usmarine (2008-11-10 07:53:30)

Braddock wrote:

TheAussieReaper wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Now you make claims you cant back up lowing, how can we blame socialism for the crisis exactly ?

I think he means for us to blame France...

I think he's still struggling to come to terms with Obama winning the election!

Varegg wrote:

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Now you make claims you cant back up lowing, how can we blame socialism for the crisis exactly ?

I never said socialism is responsible for the "economic crisis". You are blaming the free market for the collapse of Iceland. I was pointing out that France is near bankruptcy as well, and it isn't because of capitalism but its socialism. All the govt. funded programs are straining Frances pocketbook.

Any sources to back this up because i find your new twist very interesting ... the social programs you are speaking of pretty much works in most European countries ...

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

lowing wrote:

I never said socialism is responsible for the "economic crisis". You are blaming the free market for the collapse of Iceland. I was pointing out that France is near bankruptcy as well, and it isn't because of capitalism but its socialism. All the govt. funded programs are straining Frances pocketbook.

Any sources to back this up because i find your new twist very interesting ... the social programs you are speaking of pretty much works in most European countries ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne … roke'.html

French PM Francois Fillon wrote:

He added that Mr Sarkozy's decision to spend up to €15billion (£10.5billion) on a package of tax cuts had only made things worse. One deputy from Mr Fillon's UMP party added: "This phrase was badly timed. The French are liable to ask why we committed all this spending on the fiscal package if we are in such a bad way."

DonFck wrote:

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Any sources to back this up because i find your new twist very interesting ... the social programs you are speaking of pretty much works in most European countries ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne … roke'.html

I fail to find socialism in there. Please elaborate on your opinion that France is socialist.

Varegg wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

DonFck wrote:

I fail to find socialism in there. Please elaborate on your opinion that France is socialist.

I'll elaborate on it.

'Cos they certainly are socialist. The PS (Parti Socialiste) is one of the largest political parties in France. François Mitterrand, their President preceeding Chirac, was a member of the PS. Ever since the end of the 60's France has been socialist - despite the fact they have, in recent years, tended towards more right wing governments (Chirac and Sarkozy). These right wing governments have been unable to reform much socialist legislation in place because of the French workers great love of striking whenever they don't get their own way.

Have to arrest you a little Bertster, the problem with the last years conservative line in France is that they have tried to fix the wrong things, issues that wasn't broken and neglected the issues that needed to be taken care of ...

With that said it's my observation also that French workers love to strike a little more than what's average ...

Bertster7 wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

I'll elaborate on it.

'Cos they certainly are socialist. The PS (Parti Socialiste) is one of the largest political parties in France. François Mitterrand, their President preceeding Chirac, was a member of the PS. Ever since the end of the 60's France has been socialist - despite the fact they have, in recent years, tended towards more right wing governments (Chirac and Sarkozy). These right wing governments have been unable to reform much socialist legislation in place because of the French workers great love of striking whenever they don't get their own way.

Have to arrest you a little Bertster, the problem with the last years conservative line in France is that they have tried to fix the wrong things, issues that wasn't broken and neglected the issues that needed to be taken care of ...

With that said it's my observation also that French workers love to strike a little more than what's average ...

I don't disagree with any of that. But I still maintain that they remain a socialist country because of the policies laid down by decades of socialist rule which have not been reformed by the current right wing government. Therefore I agree with lowing (did I just say that?) that they are a socialist country.