Deadmonkiefart
Floccinaucinihilipilificator
+177|6706
Proposition 8, if passed, would ban same sex marriages.  Here is my argument in support of it. 

The word marriage has existed for at least a thousand years, during which, it's meaning has remained unchanged.  The definition of a word cannot simply be changed by a small minority of the population that wishes to impose its will on the majority by restructuring society.  There was already a vote on this several years ago, and a clear majority of the population still defined marriage as between a man and a woman.  This statewide vote was overturned by California's radical liberal supreme court with very vague justification.  This is a case of a powerful minority imposing its will on society.  A word that has had the same meaning for such a long time cannot simply be redefined by  a small amount of people who do clearly do not represent society.  Marriage and Civil Unions are different words with different meanings.  The only difference in the meaning is that a marriage is between a man and a woman, and civil unions can be between two people of the same sex or two people of different sex.  As long as the majority of people define marriage as an institution that can only be between  a man and a woman, it cannot justifiably be changed.  It is not a moral issue.  If I was gay, I would still define marriage as being between a man and a woman.  That is simply its definition to me. We are not discriminating against anyone by maintaining the definition of a word.   

If you don't like my first argument:

The issue is not "equal rights".  The problem is separation of church and state.  Marriage is not a "sacred institution" to me; I'm not a christian.  However, it is a religious institution.  Any couple can get a civil union, man man, man woman, or woman woman.  A marriage is performed in a church, by a pastor, on the bible.  The idea that a gay person would marry anyone on a bible is quite simply absurd to me, since they would be essentially desecrating the very book that they are swearing on.  In Massachusetts, pastors were fined and even arrested for not marrying gay couples, something that is forbidden by their religion.  The government is regulating and interfering with a religion.  This is totally in opposition to the separation of church and state.

Now, I would be very pleasantly surprised to have someone prove refute me with some legitimate arguments, since it has not happend yet.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6601|132 and Bush

There is a lot of disinformation going on here. Will prop 8 affect Social security payments or the ability of gays to visit loved ones in hospitals?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6405|North Carolina
Proposition 8 and its equivalents in several other states are nothing more than a way for the populace to demonstrate its prejudice against gay people.

That being said, the whole problem would be best solved by just removing marriage from government and letting churches bicker over it.

Then, we could create gay civil unions and replace all government recognition of marriage with civil unions (both straight and gay).

Overall, the whole gay marriage issue is nothing more than a case of people hiding behind religion to discriminate against gay people.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6601|132 and Bush

Why would you deny rights to any group of people? And you are arguing that theeeey are imposing their will? ..lol. Only one group of people is telling the other what they can and can not do.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
imortal
Member
+240|6665|Austin, TX
I have said it before, and I will say it again.  The word 'marriage' should be a completley religious one.  'civil union' is the term that should be used by the government, whether the union in question is a gay union or a more traditional man-woman thing. 

Civil Unions should be allowed no matter the gender or sexual orientation of the individuals involved, and provide the same benifits.  Marriages are a matter of faith, and it is up to you and your church whether or not it would be allowed.
Hakei
Banned
+295|5996
It isn't any of your business if two gay people want to get married, regardless of what it's been for 'at least one thousand years'. In the last 100 or so years child abuse has been a big issue, before that no one cared. Do we now simply refuse child abuse being bad because it's been around for ' thousands of years'. What's 'right' and 'wrong' is an ever changing thing, it's gay marriage is not going to affect you in any way, shape or form. Find another way to display your reluctance to accept homosexuality isn't wrong.
Deadmonkiefart
Floccinaucinihilipilificator
+177|6706

Kmarion wrote:

There is a lot of disinformation going on here. Will prop 8 affect Social security payments or the ability of gays to visit loved ones in hospitals?
Gay's can visit loved ones in hospitals, just like everyone else.  I am not aware that Social Security laws are not effectively identical between civil unions and marriages.  Care to provide a legitimate citation?  I'd appreciate it if you did not accuse my of spreading disinformation, especially when you are so misinformed.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6601|132 and Bush

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

There is a lot of disinformation going on here. Will prop 8 affect Social security payments or the ability of gays to visit loved ones in hospitals?
Gay's can visit loved ones in hospitals, just like everyone else.  I am not aware that Social Security laws are not effectively identical between civil unions and marriages.  Care to provide a legitimate citation?  I'd appreciate it if you did not accuse my of spreading disinformation, especially when you are so misinformed.
Calm down hotshot.. it was a question.

Care to provide a legitimate citation?  I'd appreciate it
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Deadmonkiefart
Floccinaucinihilipilificator
+177|6706

Hakei wrote:

It isn't any of your business if two gay people want to get married, regardless of what it's been for 'at least one thousand years'. In the last 100 or so years child abuse has been a big issue, before that no one cared. Do we now simply refuse child abuse being bad because it's been around for ' thousands of years'. What's 'right' and 'wrong' is an ever changing thing, it's gay marriage is not going to affect you in any way, shape or form. Find another way to display your reluctance to accept homosexuality isn't wrong.
It's the definition of a word and the nature of word definitions.  I have nothing against gays.  But, as long as it is not my business if two straight or gay people want to get married, how is it my business if 3 or more people want to get married?  What's the difference there?
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6405|North Carolina

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

Hakei wrote:

It isn't any of your business if two gay people want to get married, regardless of what it's been for 'at least one thousand years'. In the last 100 or so years child abuse has been a big issue, before that no one cared. Do we now simply refuse child abuse being bad because it's been around for ' thousands of years'. What's 'right' and 'wrong' is an ever changing thing, it's gay marriage is not going to affect you in any way, shape or form. Find another way to display your reluctance to accept homosexuality isn't wrong.
It's the definition of a word and the nature of word definitions.  I have nothing against gays.  But, as long as it is not my business if two straight or gay people want to get married, how is it my business if 3 or more people want to get married?  What's the difference there?
Some people would suggest that polygamy should be legalized.

and honestly...  I'm on the fence about that one.  I've spoken out against Warren Jeffs's pedo-marriage shit, but as long as the people involved are all adults and not related, then maybe it wouldn't be so bad to allow....
Hakei
Banned
+295|5996

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

Hakei wrote:

It isn't any of your business if two gay people want to get married, regardless of what it's been for 'at least one thousand years'. In the last 100 or so years child abuse has been a big issue, before that no one cared. Do we now simply refuse child abuse being bad because it's been around for ' thousands of years'. What's 'right' and 'wrong' is an ever changing thing, it's gay marriage is not going to affect you in any way, shape or form. Find another way to display your reluctance to accept homosexuality isn't wrong.
It's the definition of a word and the nature of word definitions.  I have nothing against gays.  But, as long as it is not my business if two straight or gay people want to get married, how is it my business if 3 or more people want to get married?  What's the difference there?
As far as I know in many middle eastern countries it's common for a man to be married to more than one woman, and that's socially accepted there. So it's none of your business.

What's next? Going to suggest a human/animal marriage to prove that it shouldn't be called marriage? Find another hobby other than disputing terminology, marriage is just a proof of deep love for a partner, and it shouldn't be taken any further than that.

Tell me, have you ever been married/engaged?
Deadmonkiefart
Floccinaucinihilipilificator
+177|6706

Turquoise wrote:

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

Hakei wrote:

It isn't any of your business if two gay people want to get married, regardless of what it's been for 'at least one thousand years'. In the last 100 or so years child abuse has been a big issue, before that no one cared. Do we now simply refuse child abuse being bad because it's been around for ' thousands of years'. What's 'right' and 'wrong' is an ever changing thing, it's gay marriage is not going to affect you in any way, shape or form. Find another way to display your reluctance to accept homosexuality isn't wrong.
It's the definition of a word and the nature of word definitions.  I have nothing against gays.  But, as long as it is not my business if two straight or gay people want to get married, how is it my business if 3 or more people want to get married?  What's the difference there?
Some people would suggest that polygamy should be legalized.

and honestly...  I'm on the fence about that one.  I've spoken out against Warren Jeffs's pedo-marriage shit, but as long as the people involved are all adults and not related, then maybe it wouldn't be so bad to allow....
Ok... So everybody should be able to marry everybody, so that we all get the tax benefits.
N00bkilla55404
Voices are calling...
+136|5932|Somewhere out in Space
How about some Anti-Antidisestablishmentarianism?  Marriage is a religous creation, completely unrelated to the government and as a result should not be brought up in the god damn senate or any level of the government for that matter.  There is no official religion of your country, so why should they have to step in for your special problem and enforce what could be perfectly fine elsewhere?  There are more important things for people's tax dollars to be spent on.  If Christians do not want to "marry" homosexuals, so be it.  If you still have a problem, bring it up with the Church, NOT the government.  Or wait, maybe you could try this new thing called a civil union.  It doesnt discriminate, and it's effectively the same as a marriage.  But of course, if you werent so blindly blackmailing and protesting everything that doesnt like you maybe it wouldnt have slipped by so easily.


/rant, homos QQ plox.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6405|North Carolina

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Deadmonkiefart wrote:


It's the definition of a word and the nature of word definitions.  I have nothing against gays.  But, as long as it is not my business if two straight or gay people want to get married, how is it my business if 3 or more people want to get married?  What's the difference there?
Some people would suggest that polygamy should be legalized.

and honestly...  I'm on the fence about that one.  I've spoken out against Warren Jeffs's pedo-marriage shit, but as long as the people involved are all adults and not related, then maybe it wouldn't be so bad to allow....
Ok... So everybody should be able to marry everybody, so that we all get the tax benefits.
I said maybe...  and besides, you know it wouldn't be like that.  Hyperbole doesn't usually get you far in a debate.
N00bkilla55404
Voices are calling...
+136|5932|Somewhere out in Space

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

Ok... So everybody should be able to marry everybody, so that we all get the tax benefits.
*insert poster for that beastiality documentary*
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6491|Menlo Park, CA
I voted NO on this particular prop btw
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|6647
Looks like its going to pass. Fuck off liberal legislating judges.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6290|Éire
"A rose by any other name..." that sounds a bit gay actually as it happens

I wouldn't give a fuck what you call it as long they all get equal tax status, equal visitation rights in hospitals and equal recognition as next of kin on insurance policies.
krazed
Admiral of the Bathtub
+619|6780|Great Brown North
why is a religious matter even involved in the gov. ?
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6343|tropical regions of london
Two steps forward were met with one step backwards




a bill that describes itself as "removing the rights of..." just sounds wrong.

Last edited by God Save the Queen (2008-11-05 06:28:20)

heggs
Spamalamadingdong
+581|6389|New York

Braddock wrote:

"A rose by any other name..." that sounds a bit gay actually as it happens

I wouldn't give a fuck what you call it as long they all get equal tax status, equal visitation rights in hospitals and equal recognition as next of kin on insurance policies.
Agreed, it's just a name. Make up a new, crazy word for it then, who cares? The point is that they deserve the same benefits as man-woman unions.
Remember Me As A Time Of Day
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6736|Salt Lake City

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

There is a lot of disinformation going on here. Will prop 8 affect Social security payments or the ability of gays to visit loved ones in hospitals?
Gay's can visit loved ones in hospitals, just like everyone else.  I am not aware that Social Security laws are not effectively identical between civil unions and marriages.  Care to provide a legitimate citation?  I'd appreciate it if you did not accuse my of spreading disinformation, especially when you are so misinformed.
Actually, they can't.  Intensive care wards often restrict access to immediate family.  That means the person's spouse, parents, and siblings; maybe grandparents.  They also can't make medical decisions because they aren't legally recognized as their spouse.
Graphic-J
The Artist formerly known as GraphicArtist-J
+196|6126|So Cal

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

Looks like its going to pass. Fuck off liberal legislating judges.
...
Yup Proposition 8 Passed! Woot woot! Cheers to the logical thinking citizens!

krazed wrote:

why is a religious matter even involved in the gov. ?
...
This doesn't really have to do anything with religion.
And also, you can't compare sexual desires with the color of one's skin. Ridiculous to have it categorized as "Civil liberty" It's gay sex ffs... nothing to do with family.
Do your sick shit whenever u want, wherever you want.... just don't push this immorality on us and on our schools.
...
But don't worry ya gays, I know you will be pushing this again in 2010. Here is to another wasted $74 million dollars in advertising.
https://i44.tinypic.com/28vg66s.jpg
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6736|Salt Lake City

GraphicArtist J wrote:

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

Looks like its going to pass. Fuck off liberal legislating judges.
...
Yup Proposition 8 Passed! Woot woot! Cheers to the logical thinking citizens!

krazed wrote:

why is a religious matter even involved in the gov. ?
...
This doesn't really have to do anything with religion.
And also, you can't compare sexual desires with the color of one's skin. Ridiculous to have it categorized as "Civil liberty" It's gay sex ffs... nothing to do with family.
Do your sick shit whenever u want, wherever you want.... just don't push this immorality on us and on our schools.
...
But don't worry ya gays, I know you will be pushing this again in 2010. Here is to another wasted $74 million dollars in advertising.
So whether you call it marriage or something else, restricting a group of people from having the same legal recognition is logical?  Oh, and who says it's immoral?  The Bible?  So by denying them the same legal rights you're pushing your morality on some one.  Hypocrisy FTL.
Graphic-J
The Artist formerly known as GraphicArtist-J
+196|6126|So Cal

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

... So by denying them the same legal rights you're pushing your morality on some one.  Hypocrisy FTL.
...
Ohh wow.. talk about the irony in that comment.
But of course. I'm sure they don't want to push their gay agenda unto all society and our kids as there is no obvious proof from what we see in everyday life.  /sarcasm
*rolls eyes*
Again... There's always Michigan.

Last edited by GraphicArtist J (2008-11-05 11:24:30)

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