I even went so far as to say that many of the reasons deeznutz mentioned for joining the armed forces are perfectly good reasons e.g. travel, pussy, education benefits, pussy, training, a sense of fraternity, pussy and so on.Braddock wrote:
The only bit added to Deeznutz's original post in my retort above was the mention of the desire to sign up to the military for the opportunity to kill other people (a concept outlined in the original OP), you'll also notice that this addition was not written in inverted commas and hence I was not implying that deeznutz actually said that. I do, however, believe that his post implied a certain tendency towards this particular point of view but that is just personal opinion on my part (I can't read his mind).RAIMIUS wrote:
Braddock, you are adding things that were not stated, in order to make your point. It weakens you argument when you try to use something the other person didn't say against them.
My argument has not been weakened in any way. My original argument that signing up to the armed forces for the opportunity to see what it is like to kill someone in a combat zone is no different in principle to signing up to a terror group for the chance to kill 'the enemy' remains the same.
It appeared to me as though you were trying to apply the OP's point to Deeznutz's post. As that was a misinterpretation, I apologize.
I am trying to sign up for an AFSC which could include combat. This is not because I desire to kill anyone (in fact I would be very happy to deter potential enemies rather than kill them). However, if it comes down to lethal action in something I am competent at, I want to be the one doing it, mostly because I believe in my own abilities and judgement (that sounds cocky, but it's the truth.) Many military members who I admire and respect take the view of "if not now, when? If not me, who?" It is not so much a desire to kill, as a desire to ensure the job is done well.
...that may be a little off topic, but I don't think that reasoning has been discussed.
I am trying to sign up for an AFSC which could include combat. This is not because I desire to kill anyone (in fact I would be very happy to deter potential enemies rather than kill them). However, if it comes down to lethal action in something I am competent at, I want to be the one doing it, mostly because I believe in my own abilities and judgement (that sounds cocky, but it's the truth.) Many military members who I admire and respect take the view of "if not now, when? If not me, who?" It is not so much a desire to kill, as a desire to ensure the job is done well.
...that may be a little off topic, but I don't think that reasoning has been discussed.
When I joined in 98 war was the last thing on our minds. We were more worried about shooting guns and pulling ass and getting strong drink.Braddock wrote:
I even went so far as to say that many of the reasons deeznutz mentioned for joining the armed forces are perfectly good reasons e.g. travel, pussy, education benefits, pussy, training, a sense of fraternity, pussy and so on.Braddock wrote:
The only bit added to Deeznutz's original post in my retort above was the mention of the desire to sign up to the military for the opportunity to kill other people (a concept outlined in the original OP), you'll also notice that this addition was not written in inverted commas and hence I was not implying that deeznutz actually said that. I do, however, believe that his post implied a certain tendency towards this particular point of view but that is just personal opinion on my part (I can't read his mind).RAIMIUS wrote:
Braddock, you are adding things that were not stated, in order to make your point. It weakens you argument when you try to use something the other person didn't say against them.
My argument has not been weakened in any way. My original argument that signing up to the armed forces for the opportunity to see what it is like to kill someone in a combat zone is no different in principle to signing up to a terror group for the chance to kill 'the enemy' remains the same.
Yeah we trained and prepped for war but we didn't think about killing.
This point of view is different to the one I outlined in the OP. What I have a problem with is people who sign up for military service and do not have a full understanding of the wider picture of what they are involved in. For this reason I believe the age for military service should be at least 21, preferably higher. An 18 year old is little more than a child and children rarely have a fully formed concept of the world or of the politics behind the military. Could anyone really blame a 19 year old Nazi for their actions? A young impressionable man who may have signed up to serve on the crest of a wave of German nationalism and pride, serving the fatherland, "we were only following orders"? If the answer is yes than why shouldn't every soldier be judged on the politics for which they are fighting?RAIMIUS wrote:
It appeared to me as though you were trying to apply the OP's point to Deeznutz's post. As that was a misinterpretation, I apologize.
I am trying to sign up for an AFSC which could include combat. This is not because I desire to kill anyone (in fact I would be very happy to deter potential enemies rather than kill them). However, if it comes down to lethal action in something I am competent at, I want to be the one doing it, mostly because I believe in my own abilities and judgement (that sounds cocky, but it's the truth.) Many military members who I admire and respect take the view of "if not now, when? If not me, who?" It is not so much a desire to kill, as a desire to ensure the job is done well.
...that may be a little off topic, but I don't think that reasoning has been discussed.
My philosophy is know what you are fighting for.
^^
Hell a lot of atrocity's were committed by the 13-14yrolds. They wouldn't receive cig rations the would get sweet rations.
Hell a lot of atrocity's were committed by the 13-14yrolds. They wouldn't receive cig rations the would get sweet rations.
So? Whats the problem? He will still have to do what army tells him to do. The reasons seem perfectly valid to me.Braddock wrote:
I even went so far as to say that many of the reasons deeznutz mentioned for joining the armed forces are perfectly good reasons e.g. travel, pussy, education benefits, pussy, training, a sense of fraternity, pussy and so on.Braddock wrote:
The only bit added to Deeznutz's original post in my retort above was the mention of the desire to sign up to the military for the opportunity to kill other people (a concept outlined in the original OP), you'll also notice that this addition was not written in inverted commas and hence I was not implying that deeznutz actually said that. I do, however, believe that his post implied a certain tendency towards this particular point of view but that is just personal opinion on my part (I can't read his mind).RAIMIUS wrote:
Braddock, you are adding things that were not stated, in order to make your point. It weakens you argument when you try to use something the other person didn't say against them.
My argument has not been weakened in any way. My original argument that signing up to the armed forces for the opportunity to see what it is like to kill someone in a combat zone is no different in principle to signing up to a terror group for the chance to kill 'the enemy' remains the same.
I don't have a problem, Deeznuts cited some valid reasons; my point, from the OP onwards, was that anyone who signs up for "action" (i.e. the chance to fight and kill people) are comparable to Islamic extremists who sign up to kill "infidels"..Sup wrote:
So? Whats the problem? He will still have to do what army tells him to do. The reasons seem perfectly valid to me.Braddock wrote:
I even went so far as to say that many of the reasons deeznutz mentioned for joining the armed forces are perfectly good reasons e.g. travel, pussy, education benefits, pussy, training, a sense of fraternity, pussy and so on.Braddock wrote:
The only bit added to Deeznutz's original post in my retort above was the mention of the desire to sign up to the military for the opportunity to kill other people (a concept outlined in the original OP), you'll also notice that this addition was not written in inverted commas and hence I was not implying that deeznutz actually said that. I do, however, believe that his post implied a certain tendency towards this particular point of view but that is just personal opinion on my part (I can't read his mind).
My argument has not been weakened in any way. My original argument that signing up to the armed forces for the opportunity to see what it is like to kill someone in a combat zone is no different in principle to signing up to a terror group for the chance to kill 'the enemy' remains the same.
My reason to joining the army-purely for experience and taking discipline to a higher level. Never to kill a person! Sure we all like to fire weapons but joining army to take lives is disgusting.
Islamic extremists are like Hitlers SS. Brainwashed killers. They say the fight for religion yet the religion does not support killing.
Alright to answer you question: yes, people who want to join the army to kill are just like extremists. People join the army to protect the country. Ofc you will have to kill but stating killing is your reason to join the army is sick and disgusting.
Islamic extremists are like Hitlers SS. Brainwashed killers. They say the fight for religion yet the religion does not support killing.
Alright to answer you question: yes, people who want to join the army to kill are just like extremists. People join the army to protect the country. Ofc you will have to kill but stating killing is your reason to join the army is sick and disgusting.
You are an idiot.Braddock wrote:
Half of your post rings true and makes sense deeznutz, the other half unfortunately is full of shit.deeznutz1245 wrote:
Action [verb] = (1) Getting out of a small tobacco town in Connecticut and traveling the world on someone else's dime. All while consuming good booze at cheap prices and waking up with exotic women with various tattoo's to illustrate a permanent adventure on your body that will later aid in pulling ass when your a civilian. Lets not forget the time at sea, the helicopter rides, weapons, sick ass equipment, lifelong friends brothers who wil die for you, bootcamp memories, a uniform that will also aid in pulling ass, the chance to blow shit up, knowing at one point I was one of the baddest mother fuckers to walk the land, being part of an elite fraternity and tradition, 10% off at most participating Best Westerns and a college degree that I did not pay for.
(2) Going through boot camp only to put on a skirt afterwards by becoming a POGUE, and then telling people back home you are in Special Forces and fabricating stories of how you kill people when you realy didn't. As a result you succesfully put shame to anyone who wears the uniform and sacrifice hundreds of years of tradition for the opportunity to become a bar star not realizing there is most likely a real hero lurking at a pool table silently listening to your bullshit as you further confirm and solidify the real mans status as a true hero.
(3) Not William Walace.
Signing up to the military for the overseas travel, training, feeling of fraternity, pussy, educational benefits, lifelong memories and the idea of serving your country (which you didn't mention funnily enough) = perfectly good reasons to join the army.
Signing up to the military for "the chance to blow shit up", "to use sick ass equipment" and to kill other human beings = evil and retarded.
Also, the mere fact of killing someone doesn't get you automatic hero status in my book I'm afraid. Whether or not someone is killed in your supposed act of heroism is a secondary detail, there are other more important factors to be considered such as what was your mission actually achieving for the good of your fellow troops/society/family/loved ones? Did you exhibit extraordinary courage and skill in your actions? Was the target in question an actual threat to your fellow troops/society/family/loved ones/way of life or just someone who themself was just trying to protect his society/family/loved ones/nation? Were you part of an aggressive military action or a defensive military action (for example I wouldn't regard many Nazis as heroes)?
And finally, what's the deal with you and William Wallace? You seem to have a major hard-on for him.
1. I didn't join at the age of 17 to serve anyone, per se. I joined to see what was out in the world. Most young men do.
2. Playing with explosives, and performing demolition on structures was appealing to me and was the reason I signed. Ironically enough, I did none of that so I want to punch my recruiter in the face. I also thought getting the chance to use NVG's, drive hummers and all the other neat things you see on TV would be cool which makes me want to punch you in the face for proclaiming I am full of shit because you don't know me and what motivates me so close your righteous trap.
3. Where did I state killing someone makes you a hero? Oh, thats right I didn't ....kthx. I did, however, say that I frown upon the idiots who go to bars and boast that they do or did. Real heroes do their job to the best of their ability and hurt nobody unless they have to. I am a proponent of that but I guess you already formulated your response before you finished reading.
4. I am a fucking U.S. Marine, I never joined the Army. Big difference.
5. I am a combat veteran. What I did is between me, myself, my dd214, and the other men who had the balls to be next to me in the first place. My medals are kept in the same cigar box my Grandfather kept his in. In other words, not only is it none of your fucking business. But I am not going to discuss it so you can attempt to discredit me, I have seen how you operate.
6. William Wallace was captured and is therfore a failure. I only admire real heros, ya know ones that complete their mission.
7. Eat shit.
Malloy must go
^ win right there folks
You are a douchebag... we could go on all day with this line of debate.deeznutz1245 wrote:
You are an idiot.
A perfectly valid and understandable reason... as I stated.deeznutz1245 wrote:
1. I didn't join at the age of 17 to serve anyone, per se. I joined to see what was out in the world. Most young men do.
That's not really the part of your post that I thought was full of shit but sure what the hell. I also said I could not read minds and had no way at all of actually knowing what goes on in your head, try reading my post again pal o' mine. It's also pretty hard to punch people in the face over the internet soldier boy, what's your upload bandwidth?deeznutz1245 wrote:
2. Playing with explosives, and performing demolition on structures was appealing to me and was the reason I signed. Ironically enough, I did none of that so I want to punch my recruiter in the face. I also thought getting the chance to use NVG's, drive hummers and all the other neat things you see on TV would be cool which makes me want to punch you in the face for proclaiming I am full of shit because you don't know me and what motivates me so close your righteous trap.
People who spout off about shit they didn't actually do are idiots, no matter what profession they are in. I'm glad to hear you don't consider killing a prerequisite for heroism because it really isn't.deeznutz1245 wrote:
3. Where did I state killing someone makes you a hero? Oh, thats right I didn't ....kthx. I did, however, say that I frown upon the idiots who go to bars and boast that they do or did. Real heroes do their job to the best of their ability and hurt nobody unless they have to. I am a proponent of that but I guess you already formulated your response before you finished reading.
Okay, whatever... can I still call you soldier boy though?deeznutz1245 wrote:
4. I am a fucking U.S. Marine, I never joined the Army. Big difference.
I'm not questioning you over your military actions, I've never done in the past and I'm not starting now; what you have done in your past is for you to deal with yourself and I couldn't give a flying fuck about it to be honest. But that does not change my opinion that anyone who signs up to the military to experience the chance to fight and kill on a battlefield (and again I'll point out that I'm not saying you fall in this category... seen as I have to spell everything out for you) is no different to an extremist who signs up for the opportunity to kill 'the enemy' as they perceive it to be.deeznutz1245 wrote:
5. I am a combat veteran. What I did is between me, myself, my dd214, and the other men who had the balls to be next to me in the first place. My medals are kept in the same cigar box my Grandfather kept his in. In other words, not only is it none of your fucking business. But I am not going to discuss it so you can attempt to discredit me, I have seen how you operate.
Do you know who wasn't captured? Eamonn DeValera... and I live in the Republic of Ireland thanks to him. Look at a fucking map some day mate.deeznutz1245 wrote:
6. William Wallace was captured and is therfore a failure. I only admire real heros, ya know ones that complete their mission.
I love you too bro.deeznutz1245 wrote:
7. Eat shit.
Great post mate! You are the internet equivalent of the little annoying guy who shouts insults from behind the big guy who at least has the balls to actually enter the altercation.Schwarzelungen wrote:
^ win right there folks
In response to Braddock's OP, which I thought was a good question and furthermore a good debate, I wrote this.
...?
So Braddock decided to inform me that my personal feelings were incorrect and, as he would say, full of shit by writing this.Deez wrote:
Getting out of a small tobacco town in Connecticut and traveling the world on someone else's dime. All while consuming good booze at cheap prices and waking up with exotic women with various tattoo's to illustrate a permanent adventure on your body that will later aid in pulling ass when your a civilian. Lets not forget the time at sea, the helicopter rides, weapons, sick ass equipment, lifelong friends brothers who wil die for you, bootcamp memories, a uniform that will also aid in pulling ass, the chance to blow shit up, knowing at one point I was one of the baddest mother fuckers to walk the land, being part of an elite fraternity and tradition, 10% off at most participating Best Westerns and a college degree that I did not pay for.
So I then responded with,Braddock wrote:
Half of your post rings true and makes sense deeznutz, the other half unfortunately is full of shit.
Signing up to the military for the overseas travel, training, feeling of fraternity, pussy, educational benefits, lifelong memories and the idea of serving your country (which you didn't mention funnily enough) = perfectly good reasons to join the army. Signing up to the military for "the chance to blow shit up", "to use sick ass equipment" and to kill other human beings = evil and retarded.
But then Braddock saiddeez wrote:
2. Playing with explosives, and performing demolition on structures was appealing to me and was the reason I signed. Ironically enough, I did none of that so I want to punch my recruiter in the face. I also thought getting the chance to use NVG's, drive hummers and all the other neat things you see on TV would be cool which makes me want to punch you in the face for proclaiming I am full of shit because you don't know me and what motivates me so close your righteous trap.
So now I ask this: Isn't that what you just wrote? I know I am just a stupid military man but I am confused. Please elaborate because I never said I joined to kill people even though you stated I did and if that is not what you meant then that would mean the other things I said are the things you think are "full of shit"...Braddock wrote:
That's not really the part of your post that I thought was full of shit but sure what the hell.
...?
Last edited by deeznutz1245 (2008-10-22 15:04:10)
Malloy must go
I actually thought this part was full of shit because it had little or nothing to do with the topic in hand; it's just a rant about a hypothetical pogue disgracing the good name of the army etc. etc. It also seemed to me to smack of the common mentality of many military men that if you haven't seen armed conflict you are not a "real man", which I think is macho bullshit... however I do acknowledge that subsequent to this post you did clarify that you do not believe killing to be a prerequisite for heroism.deeznutz1245 wrote:
Going through boot camp only to put on a skirt afterwards by becoming a POGUE, and then telling people back home you are in Special Forces and fabricating stories of how you kill people when you realy didn't. As a result you succesfully put shame to anyone who wears the uniform and sacrifice hundreds of years of tradition for the opportunity to become a bar star not realizing there is most likely a real hero lurking at a pool table silently listening to your bullshit as you further confirm and solidify the real mans status as a true hero.
Last edited by Braddock (2008-10-22 15:26:44)
what is the difference between me and you
Ive got 5 bank accounts, three houses and two vehicles.
Ive got 5 bank accounts, three houses and two vehicles.
And John McCain has 12 bank accounts all handled by his secretary, can't remember how many houses he owns and is too old to drive but that's okay cause he has a Limo with secret service and the Airforce 1 jet coming his way.God Save the Queen wrote:
what is the difference between me and McCain
Ive got 5 bank accounts, three houses and two vehicles.
That means more than a person that has 1 bank account, 1 house and one vehicle?God Save the Queen wrote:
what is the difference between me and you
Ive got 5 bank accounts, three houses and two vehicles.
What if the account was an offshore account in a tax-haven, the house was a 6-bedroom country manor, and the vehicle was a Bentley?
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Ah, gangsta logic.
Makes sense.
Makes sense.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
its a song lyric you down syndrome
Until my death, I'm Bangladesh, I suggest you hold your breath, till they ain't nothin left yo that's the differenceGod Save the Queen wrote:
what is the difference between me and you
Ive got 5 bank accounts, three houses and two vehicles.
aah damn you already posted the video
Haven't heard that track in a long time, but I still remember it
Last edited by Mek-Stizzle (2008-10-22 15:48:39)
Which one you going for? PM me if you have any questions.RAIMIUS wrote:
I am trying to sign up for an AFSC which could include combat.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
The POGUE in discussion is not hypothetical Brad, there is one in every town trust me. And as far as not being a real man if you havent seen combat, it is just a way for those who served to one up eachother thats all. It's a frat thing.Braddock wrote:
I actually thought this part was full of shit because it had little or nothing to do with the topic in hand; it's just a rant about a hypothetical pogue disgracing the good name of the army etc. etc. It also seemed to me to smack of the common mentality of many military men that if you haven't seen armed conflict you are not a "real man", which I think is macho bullshit... however I do acknowledge that subsequent to this post you did clarify that you do not believe killing to be a prerequisite for heroism.deeznutz1245 wrote:
Going through boot camp only to put on a skirt afterwards by becoming a POGUE, and then telling people back home you are in Special Forces and fabricating stories of how you kill people when you realy didn't. As a result you succesfully put shame to anyone who wears the uniform and sacrifice hundreds of years of tradition for the opportunity to become a bar star not realizing there is most likely a real hero lurking at a pool table silently listening to your bullshit as you further confirm and solidify the real mans status as a true hero.
Malloy must go
Pilot (if I can get medically qualified)FEOS wrote:
Which one you going for? PM me if you have any questions.RAIMIUS wrote:
I am trying to sign up for an AFSC which could include combat.
Security Forces
OSI
You're missing a pretty good swath of combat AFSCs there.RAIMIUS wrote:
Pilot (if I can get medically qualified)FEOS wrote:
Which one you going for? PM me if you have any questions.RAIMIUS wrote:
I am trying to sign up for an AFSC which could include combat.
Security Forces
OSI
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular