Vax
Member
+42|5853|Flyover country

Kmarion wrote:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/05/sprj.irq.powell.transcript/
Since people seem to have forgotten exactly what it was he said.
Good call, seems needed.

Also some background on the presentation

"(Powell) came through the door ... and he had in his hands a sheaf of papers, and he said, 'This is what I've got to present at the United Nations according to the White House, and you need to look at it,'" Wilkerson says in the program. "It was anything but an intelligence document. It was, as some people characterized it later, sort of a Chinese menu from which you could pick and choose."

Wilkerson and Powell spent four days and nights in a CIA conference room with then-Director George Tenet and other top officials trying to ensure the accuracy of the presentation, Wilkerson says.

"There was no way the Secretary of State was going to read off a script about serious matters of intelligence that could lead to war when the script was basically un-sourced," Wilkerson says.

In one dramatic accusation in his speech, Powell showed slides alleging that Saddam had bioweapons labs mounted on trucks that would be almost impossible to find.

"In fact, Secretary Powell was not told that one of the sources he was given as a source of this information had indeed been flagged by the Defense Intelligence Agency as a liar, a fabricator," says David Kay, who served as the CIA's chief weapons inspector in Iraq after the fall of Saddam. That source, an Iraqi defector who had never been debriefed by the CIA, was known within the intelligence community as "Curveball."
As for the endorsement, it's a little surprising (as he is a republican) and he has said that "either of them would make a good president"

I heard he said he didn't want a republican to choose the next two supreme court justices... (?) Interesting.

It's a big deal to me, someone mentioned above some people actually thought Powell should run for prez. I was one of them. That was before he became quite as stigmatized as he is now, by some. I never slammed him even after the "presentation", and still have respect for him.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6602|132 and Bush

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

So he goes from supporting Bush to supporting Obama, a pretty much complete opposite.

Must be because he's black.
Unfortunately for McCain a lot of white ppl did the exact same thing.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|6811|Nårvei

Kmarion wrote:

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

So he goes from supporting Bush to supporting Obama, a pretty much complete opposite.

Must be because he's black.
Unfortunately for McCain a lot of white ppl did the exact same thing.
Wat ... white people vote for McCain because he is white ?

Outrageous
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
[pt] KEIOS
srs bsns
+231|6654|pimelteror.de
I always liked Colin Powell. Now he proved, that he is worth the sympathy.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6154|what

Endorsements mean a lot this election.

https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
.Sup
be nice
+2,646|6454|The Twilight Zone
"I think we need a president who is a generational change"- I agree with that
https://www.shrani.si/f/3H/7h/45GTw71U/untitled-1.png
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6412|'Murka

.Sup wrote:

"I think we need a president who is a generational change"- I agree with that
Then you should elect a young guy in your own country.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
.Sup
be nice
+2,646|6454|The Twilight Zone

FEOS wrote:

.Sup wrote:

"I think we need a president who is a generational change"- I agree with that
Then you should elect a young guy in your own country.
No young candidates here unfortunately. If this is a US only thread let me know and I'll be on my way.
https://www.shrani.si/f/3H/7h/45GTw71U/untitled-1.png
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6763

.Sup wrote:

"I think we need a president who is a generational change"- I agree with that
what the helll does that mean?  oh wait, i know.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6763

Kmarion wrote:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/05/sprj.irq.powell.transcript/
Since people seem to have forgotten exactly what it was he said.
who needs a transcript?  i know what he said and what it looked like when he held up all those pretty pictures in front of the world.  you all can keep defending him, you seem to want to and i have no idea why.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6622|London, England

usmarine wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/05/sprj.irq.powell.transcript/
Since people seem to have forgotten exactly what it was he said.
who needs a transcript?  i know what he said and what it looked like when he held up all those pretty pictures in front of the world.  you all can keep defending him, you seem to want to and i have no idea why.
You're the one that keeps on saying when it comes to Iraq that "Even Saddam himself thought he had WMD's" and that "It's not our fault that they were lying to everyone" and shit like that. I just find it funny how all of a sudden you're so angry at the people who lied about the war when I've seen you defend it so much.

And how other people here are all of a sudden not so angry at a man who was a major component of the invade Iraq bandwagon.

To me CP will always be a cunt of the highest order.

Last edited by Mek-Stizzle (2008-10-20 05:21:06)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6107|eXtreme to the maX
To me CP will always be a cunt of the highest order.
He should have had the balls to resign instead if go to the UN.
Without his input, and lending his credibility to the Neocons, there may well have been no invasion.
He has no credibility any more.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6633|949

It is a move by Powell to brighten his legacy, not much more.  Maybe he feels guilty about being a power-elite patsy for the last 10 years.

I don't think it will have a very big impact.  Are marginal center-right Republicans or center-left Dems that were undecided now going to vote for Obama because Colin Powell endorsed him?
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6344|tropical regions of london
I was pretty undecided until yesterday
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6412|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

To me CP will always be a cunt of the highest order.
He should have had the balls to resign instead if go to the UN.
Without his input, and lending his credibility to the Neocons, there may well have been no invasion.
He has no credibility any more.
You're fooling yourself.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6154|what

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

It is a move by Powell to brighten his legacy, not much more.  Maybe he feels guilty about being a power-elite patsy for the last 10 years.

I don't think it will have a very big impact.  Are marginal center-right Republicans or center-left Dems that were undecided now going to vote for Obama because Colin Powell endorsed him?
Perfect points.

I am surprised how many Dems have so quickly forgiven him over his past actions.

It won't pull many swinging voters, but it is more negative light for McCain, when it doesn't need it.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6412|'Murka

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Are marginal center-right Republicans or center-left Dems that were undecided now going to vote for Obama because Colin Powell endorsed him?
Yes.

I can't believe people are talking about "forgiving him for his past actions". What an utter load of crap. The man served selflessly for more than 40 years.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6633|949

FEOS wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Are marginal center-right Republicans or center-left Dems that were undecided now going to vote for Obama because Colin Powell endorsed him?
Yes.

I can't believe people are talking about "forgiving him for his past actions". What an utter load of crap. The man served selflessly for more than 40 years.
Only one person said that.  And no, I don't think so - at least not in any significant numbers.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6412|'Murka

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

FEOS wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Are marginal center-right Republicans or center-left Dems that were undecided now going to vote for Obama because Colin Powell endorsed him?
Yes.

I can't believe people are talking about "forgiving him for his past actions". What an utter load of crap. The man served selflessly for more than 40 years.
Only one person said that.  And no, I don't think so - at least not in any significant numbers.
It's been a common theme. People somehow laying the entire Iraq fiasco at his feet. It's ludicrous.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6107|eXtreme to the maX
I can't believe people are talking about "forgiving him for his past actions". What an utter load of crap. The man served selflessly for more than 40 years.
And went before the UN and put forward something he didn't believe in and at best turned out to be untrue.
You pretty well lose all credibility if you do that sort of thing.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6412|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

I can't believe people are talking about "forgiving him for his past actions". What an utter load of crap. The man served selflessly for more than 40 years.
And went before the UN and put forward something he didn't believe in and at best turned out to be untrue.
You pretty well lose all credibility if you do that sort of thing.
Only when it's convenient.

He said in his most recent interview that, based on what they knew then, it was the right thing to do. In hindsight, it clearly was not. That's the funny thing about hindsight...it doesn't work until it's too late to be useful.

But again...don't go and fill your head with facts. They just get in the way of other, more important stuff.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6107|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:

He said in his most recent interview that, based on what they knew then, it was the right thing to do.
Please reconcile that statement with
'In fact, Secretary Powell was not told that one of the sources he was given as a source of this information had indeed been flagged by the Defense Intelligence Agency as a liar, a fabricator," says David Kay, who served as the CIA's chief weapons inspector in Iraq after the fall of Saddam. That source, an Iraqi defector who had never been debriefed by the CIA, was known within the intelligence community as "Curveball."'

Seems hindsight was not required, just proper assessment of the intel.

If you're going to go before the UN and say
'My colleagues, every statement I make today is backed up by sources, solid sources. These are not assertions. What we're giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence.'
you really need to do your homework, which he didn't.

So, deservedly, he has lost all the credibility he worked so hard to gain.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
oChaos.Haze
Member
+90|6439

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

I can't believe people are talking about "forgiving him for his past actions". What an utter load of crap. The man served selflessly for more than 40 years.
And went before the UN and put forward something he didn't believe in and at best turned out to be untrue.
You pretty well lose all credibility if you do that sort of thing.
Only when it's convenient.

He said in his most recent interview that, based on what they knew then, it was the right thing to do. In hindsight, it clearly was not. That's the funny thing about hindsight...it doesn't work until it's too late to be useful.

But again...don't go and fill your head with facts. They just get in the way of other, more important stuff.
lol, FEOS never leaves home without the blinders...
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6412|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

He said in his most recent interview that, based on what they knew then, it was the right thing to do.
Please reconcile that statement with
'In fact, Secretary Powell was not told that one of the sources he was given as a source of this information had indeed been flagged by the Defense Intelligence Agency as a liar, a fabricator," says David Kay, who served as the CIA's chief weapons inspector in Iraq after the fall of Saddam. That source, an Iraqi defector who had never been debriefed by the CIA, was known within the intelligence community as "Curveball."'

Seems hindsight was not required, just proper assessment of the intel.

If you're going to go before the UN and say
'My colleagues, every statement I make today is backed up by sources, solid sources. These are not assertions. What we're giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence.'
you really need to do your homework, which he didn't.

So, deservedly, he has lost all the credibility he worked so hard to gain.
Except he specifically did NOT use the Curveball intel in his UN presentation...because he knew it was questionable.

Oh damn those pesky facts!

And, even if what you posted actually were the case (it wasn't), how would he know the intel from that single source (of the dozens used in the presentation and hundreds used in the years of analysis leading up to it) was bogus? He was the Secretary of State, not an intel analyst.

You've got mountains of analyses saying one thing. And a single outlier saying something different. Which do you go with? Hanging your conspiracy theory on Curveball shows just how little you truly know or understand anything about intel.

And you still refuse to acknowledge the facts associated with why the intel showed what it did. And now you expect him to become an expert in multiple intel disciplines in a matter of a week or so...again...what color is the sky on your world?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6412|'Murka

oChaos.Haze wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:


And went before the UN and put forward something he didn't believe in and at best turned out to be untrue.
You pretty well lose all credibility if you do that sort of thing.
Only when it's convenient.

He said in his most recent interview that, based on what they knew then, it was the right thing to do. In hindsight, it clearly was not. That's the funny thing about hindsight...it doesn't work until it's too late to be useful.

But again...don't go and fill your head with facts. They just get in the way of other, more important stuff.
lol, FEOS never leaves home without the blinders...
I'm not the one who is so focused on a single intel source that I can't/won't see the bigger picture. That sounds pretty "blinder"-ish to me.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

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