BF2S Forums Waffen-SS

[pt] KEIOS wrote:

Don´t mix up the normal citizens who joined the NSDAP to keep their jobs and not get discriminated with members of the Elite Nazi Organisation - the SS!

In this time and place, maybe i would have joined the Nazi Party to not get into trouble, too. But there is a big difference to those who went to the SS. There were the fanatic believers of the Ideology and if you read about atrocities, slaughter and genocide, you read about what members of the SS did.

But that's a sweeping statement, a generalization, a stereotype.

He's writing an essay to present the alternative view, to talk about the (minority) group that don't fall under that widespread public view.

What's wrong with it you ask? Nothing. Being so reductionist as to state that "'x' group during 'y' period of history were bad/good"  is mind-numbingly stupid.

If one does not understand the entirety of the time, judgements become less accurate and one risks falling victim to the same types of errors.  Hitler was enormously popular in the 1930s, and it wasn't just due to his hatred of the minorities.  If we fail to accurately look at what occured, we fail to learn.

Were ALL SS soldiers fanatical Nazis?  Probably not.  Did the SS, in general, follow a fanatical pattern?  Yes.

SgtHeihn wrote:

Experts say if Hitler would have died in 1936-38 he would have been a hero.

Sadly he still is for some.

RAIMIUS wrote:

SgtHeihn wrote:

Experts say if Hitler would have died in 1936-38 he would have been a hero.

He built the Autobahn, created numerous Jobs, restored hope for Germans, once again made Germany a potent political/military force, and seemingly lifted the depression...if you don't care about the Nuremburg Laws, what's not to like about him in the late 1930s? 

Of course, we all know his true colors came to light immediately afterwards.

all based on an economy on a war mode.  no, I disagree.  Germany got out of the depression because he geared every aspect of german society towards his ideology and military goals.  Germany of 1936-38 wouldnt have existed without what was to come.

Read the book Stalingrad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalingrad_(book)

It depicts the SS in a very real light, along with the hardships the German and Soviet armies faced .

c14u53w172 wrote:

you know that there were no ss-units involved in the battle of stalingrad, don't you??!!

The book doesn't just focus on that single battle.

From what I heard, Waffen SS were ruthless and fierce fighters.

There's truth in every stereotype.

SamTheMan:D wrote:

so who won the war?

Played sam

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

War Man wrote:

From what I heard, Waffen SS were ruthless and fierce fighters.

No, that's just bullshit Nazi/Neo Nazi propoganda. All they were, were a bunch of people who were more dedicated to the Nazi beliefs than normal people. They weren't an elite unit. Maybe some of you will think they are, because they were supposed to be some sort of bullshit German "pure" group. But no, they were just more or less regular people with irregular beliefs.

I'd like to reiterate that the Waffen SS were definitely not an elite unit.

well, you have to differentiate. there was not such a thing as THE waffen-ss. nominally, there have been 36 waffen-ss-divisions. they highly differed

in terms of military training, ideological education, physical shape of members, equipment, voluntariness, bravery, will to fight, losses etc.

the 4 core (?) divisions (leibstandarte, das reich, totenkopf, wiking) were definitely elite divisions. but there were also elite divisions in the wehrmacht, the british, american, russian etc. army.

until the beginning of 1942, serving in the waffen-ss was genuinly voluntary. until the beginning of 1940, physical standards for joining the waffen-ss were extremely high.

a waffen-ss member before 1942 was more likely to be a nationalsocialist than a member of the wehrmacht was (although there have also been many nazis, also in the high command). but there were other reasons to join the armed ss. some have been mentionned above. felix steiner, for example, was a military reformer who wanted to create a military stormtrooper elite

etc. etc.

DoctaStrangelove wrote:

SamTheMan:D wrote:

jord wrote:

Played sam

ENGLAND

If by England you mean the USSR then you're right.

If by the USSR you mean Britain then you are right.

SamTheMan:D wrote:

jord wrote:

SamTheMan:D wrote:

so who won the war?

Played sam

ENGLAND

no we didnt

jord wrote:

What I really want to know is what part Puerto Rico played in WW2

they just follow what the US does all the time.  Special relationship or something