Waffen-SS

2008-10-16 15:07:05

#1

c14u53w172: Member; +31|5995|tomania

i'm writing my m.a. thesis on the topic "the waffen-ss in the soviet-german war from the beginning of the war until winter 1941/42".

while reading books and sources on this topic, i recognized, that as early as the beginning of the 2nd worldwar, the general opinion about the

waffen-ss consists almost entirely of stereotypes. most people, apart from some of my commilitones (? don't want to look for the german word

kommilitonen in a dictionary) who also study history, have a picture full of clishees (?) and stereotypes of the waffen-ss

so, what do you know and think about the waffen-ss?

2008-10-16 15:11:09

#2

Tripulaci0n: Member; +14|6153

waffen sounds like waffle and im damn hungry

2008-10-16 15:11:25

#3

SgtHeihn: Should have ducked; +394|6483|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forgotten_Soldier

Read this. Most of the guys in the SS only joined because it was better pay, rations and weapons. It's a book to change most peoples view of the SS.

2008-10-16 15:29:56

#4

c14u53w172: Member; +31|5995|tomania

i read a lot of this "memorial" books from former members of the waffen-ss. they are apologetic, tendentious and not scientific. best book by far

about the waffen-ss is bernd wegner's monography on the topic.

Last edited by c14u53w172 (2008-10-16 15:30:30)

2008-10-16 15:56:09

#5

The_Guardsman: Tally Ho!!; +81|6742|I'm not sure.... Buts its dark

I read a book called the Devil's Guard.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_Guard

It starts off with the end of the war and his attempt with his unit to extract from the Russian front back to German. When he gets back he ends up joining the French Legion and fights in Indo China.

Alot of SS along with other units of the German Army made there way and joined the French Forign Legion after the war. Some to avoid the end of a rope or prison sentence others because there was nothing else left.

He says in the book that the Waffen SS got mixed up with the SS that did the concentration camps and the such. Not all SS stayed behind to guard Death camps.

2008-10-16 16:02:48

#6

Sydney: 2λчиэλ; +783|6840|Reykjavík, Iceland.

Tripulaci0n wrote:
waffen sounds like waffle and im damn hungry

https://207.199.174.56/img/lwmEWTQqSr_luftwaffles.jpg

2008-10-16 16:04:58

#7

.Sup: be nice; +2,646|6450|The Twilight Zone

Himmler and his guys praised different goods and were really into all this Arian race thing. Hitler's bodyguards were SS consisted of blond and blue-eyed men only. SS were in the police and Gestapo and during war operation they would come after normal soldiers when a land was taken to murder non Arians.

https://www.shrani.si/f/3H/7h/45GTw71U/untitled-1.png

2008-10-16 18:31:11

#8

_j5689_: Dreads & Bergers; +364|6713|Riva, MD

Sydney wrote:
Tripulaci0n wrote:
waffen sounds like waffle and im damn hungry
http://207.199.174.56/img/lwmEWTQqSr_luftwaffles.jpg

Air waffles?

2008-10-16 18:32:25

#9

The A W S M F O X: I Won't Deny It; +172|5681|SQUID

SS are my idols.

2008-10-16 19:13:00

#10

MECtallica: Member; +73|6501|jalalabad

leggo my eggo

or as hitler would say it

loslassen mein waffen

2008-10-16 20:44:22

#11

RAIMIUS: You with the face!; +244|6711|US

"Let go of my weapon?"...awkward...
(and poor grammar...does correcting the german grammar of a joke about Hitler make me a grammar-nazi?)

2008-10-16 21:46:14

#12

TC.Troy: Let the rough side drag; +111|6570

The waffen SS were paid to do what the did. Second, the were fanatical, although many of them appolgized for what they have done. I have the utmost symapathey for them. They were only doing what they were told. Orders are orders...

Last edited by TC.Troy (2008-10-16 21:47:24)

2008-10-17 00:49:08

#13

jord: Member; +2,382|6675|The North, beyond the wall.

There's probably good SS and extremely evil SS like most massive groups. I don't feel for them as a whole, because there was SS that enjoyed murdering Jews and handicaps and believed in Hitler's cause...

2008-10-17 01:11:00

#14

Sisco: grandmaster league revivalist; +493|6340

TC.Troy wrote:
The waffen SS were paid to do what the did. Second, the were fanatical, although many of them appolgized for what they have done. I have the utmost symapathey for them. They were only doing what they were told. Orders are orders...

I recently sat in a lecture were we talked about following orders. The Austrian army has a reward for those guys who refuse to follow an unethical or immoral order which is quite a good idea to make the dumb lemmings think sometimes. Might be a way to avoid things like Abu Graib (spelled correctly?) and the such.

https://www.abload.de/img/bf3-bf2ssig0250wvn.jpg

2008-10-17 01:51:58

#15

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|6807|Nårvei

Refusing orders is a dilemma most soldiers will face during their millitary career if in a battle enviroment, some orders are clearly against the convention and others are more shady ...

And of course what soldiers that lost any war and knew that did their part in shady activities are not apologetic ?

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2008-10-17 01:54:41

#16

Ioan92: Member; +337|5719

The Waffen SS is an army constituted of Aryans aka the pure race. The SS (Schutzstaffel, aka Protective Squadron) is Hitler s'bodyguard army.

Hope I helped

2008-10-17 02:04:33

#17

BALTINS: ಠ_ಠ; +37|6483|Latvia

Ioan92 wrote:
The Waffen SS is an army constituted of Aryans aka the pure race. The SS (Schutzstaffel, aka Protective Squadron) is Hitler s'bodyguard army.

Hope I helped

Except for the foreign Waffen SS, like the Latvian Waffen SS (15th and 19th Grenadier division), in which my grandfather served (illegal forced conscription). For the note, many members of the 15th served later as guards at the Nurnberg War crime Tribunal.

2008-10-17 02:47:11

#18

Ioan92: Member; +337|5719

BALTINS wrote:
Ioan92 wrote:
The Waffen SS is an army constituted of Aryans aka the pure race. The SS (Schutzstaffel, aka Protective Squadron) is Hitler s'bodyguard army.

Hope I helped
Except for the foreign Waffen SS, like the Latvian Waffen SS (15th and 19th Grenadier division), in which my grandfather served (illegal forced conscription). For the note, many members of the 15th served later as guards at the Nurnberg War crime Tribunal.

Thanks for the info! I'm actually reading a book about the Waffle SS

2008-10-17 03:01:34

#19

[pt] KEIOS: srs bsns; +231|6649|pimelteror.de

What kind of guys went to the SS? Fanatic believers and followers of the Nazi Ideology? The normal guys were drafted into the Wehrmacht, because they had to - the SS guys wanted to be the assholes they were.

..and why are you writing a thesis about the Waffen SS? Trying to restore their pride and honor blahblah?

2008-10-17 03:07:44

#20

jord: Member; +2,382|6675|The North, beyond the wall.

[pt] KEIOS wrote:
What kind of guys went to the SS? Fanatic believers and followers of the Nazi Ideology? The normal guys were drafted into the Wehrmacht, because they had to - the SS guys wanted to be the assholes they were.

..and why are you writing a thesis about the Waffen SS? Trying to restore their pride and honor blahblah?

Why would you not write about it? It was a part of history that everyone should learn about and not ignore and pretend never happened. Hitler's rise to power and Nazi Germany are on the nation curriculum here if you want to do History you have to do it and it was an interesting subject...

2008-10-17 03:35:39

#21

The_Guardsman: Tally Ho!!; +81|6742|I'm not sure.... Buts its dark

[pt] KEIOS wrote:
What kind of guys went to the SS? Fanatic believers and followers of the Nazi Ideology? The normal guys were drafted into the Wehrmacht, because they had to - the SS guys wanted to be the assholes they were.

..and why are you writing a thesis about the Waffen SS? Trying to restore their pride and honor blahblah?

Actually old boy alot of them joined the SS due to better pay and rations and also because it was considered an elite force like the Royal Marines, the Green Berets and the Women's royal auxiliary balloon corp. Alot of them will argue at being branded with the same scum that worked the death camps. Also at the end of the war when the third Riceh was in Dire Straits they just throw anyone in to the mob.

But yes there were some looneys and fanatics that got in. By no means am l defending them however alot of them had nothing to do with the camps and had no knowledge of them either.

2008-10-17 04:36:00

#22

[pt] KEIOS: srs bsns; +231|6649|pimelteror.de

@Jord: Writing about the Waffen-SS and demanding that most people only know stereotypes about them, sounds like someone is trying to defend them and their crimes.

@Guardsman: Pay and rations are not a reason to join the fanatics. You must share their ideology and you must be willing to kill for it. That can´t be compared with other elite forces of democratic societies.

Talking about Nazis and War crimes is talking about SS and Waffen-SS.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Ss_officer_fritz_klein_bergen_belsen_concentration_camp_1945.jpg

Last edited by [pt] KEIOS (2008-10-17 04:39:01)

2008-10-17 04:40:10

#23

jord: Member; +2,382|6675|The North, beyond the wall.

It's presenting an alternative opinion and if you can back it up with personal accounts and factual stories why not?

Nazis were/are bad, all of them.

SS had mostly evil people, most of them...

Infact not every "Nazi" was bad. Many people worse that armband and never did anything wrong in terms of hating Jews/Poles/non Arians. They did it to not get put in a work camp as a political prisoner.

We all like to think we'll be noble and would spit on the swastika in their situation and endure a death camp. But in reality, how many of us would take the armband, wear it and never do anything wrong?

2008-10-17 04:45:52

#24

Tjasso: the "Commander"; +102|6520|the Netherlands

The enemy is weakened ! imo there are better things to wright about (about WWII ... )

2008-10-17 04:50:06

#25

[pt] KEIOS: srs bsns; +231|6649|pimelteror.de

Don´t mix up the normal citizens who joined the NSDAP to keep their jobs and not get discriminated with members of the Elite Nazi Organisation - the SS!

In this time and place, maybe i would have joined the Nazi Party to not get into trouble, too. But there is a big difference to those who went to the SS. There were the fanatic believers of the Ideology and if you read about atrocities, slaughter and genocide, you read about what members of the SS did.

BF2S Forums Waffen-SS

Tripulaci0n wrote:

Sydney wrote:

Tripulaci0n wrote:

TC.Troy wrote:

Ioan92 wrote:

BALTINS wrote:

Ioan92 wrote:

[pt] KEIOS wrote:

[pt] KEIOS wrote:

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