GorillaTicTacs
Member
+231|6344|Kyiv, Ukraine
In this and other forums I'm starting to see it, not just with the usual suspects like lowing, but with a few others as well.  Basically the conservatives have broken into 3 groups:

Obamicans - ones that will vote Obama.
Grumblers - ones that will remain couch potatoes this election, or vote 3rd party in protest.
Rabid Dogs - ones that have become completely unhinged, frothing at the mouth, and becoming nearly fatally upset that their entire identity of privelege may collapse around them.

What I'm actually concerned about is that in the tantrums of the last group, an Obama presidency could actually mean a real-life domestic terrorism problem for the rest of us.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14445.html

Already a few very real attacks, one on a mosque nursery in Ohio and another on a Unitarian church in Tennessee, have gotten little or no media attention but were very real results of the right-wing hate machine tipping people overboard. 

How many others are "right on the edge" and would snap if Obama became president?

Another clip from DailyKos addressing this issue and articulates it better than I could:
Somehow, even the idea of not winning this election is so fraught with a loss of identity that the idea cannot even be entertained. 

The definition of themselves - winners, dominant, tough, favored, right, core, true, etc. - is not about policies so much as their emotional identity as "the favored child."  If those core assumptions are challenged, they melt down into tantrums.

Reagan really created this dynamic (entitlement because you wear a flag pin / carry a gun / drive a pickup / oppose abortion / oppose gays).  Notice how little effort all those things take - and the outsize reward that results (I am a Real American, therefore I deserve success, including prosperity).
The above is the basic feeling I've gotten for the last few years from seeing off-the-cuff stuff on various forums, especially after reading about authoritarian psychology.

How do you undo 30 years of Reagan-Gingrich-neocon brain-washing so that at least a majority of people will become functional members of American society - without resorting to the same tactics that made them this way?

Last edited by GorillaTicTacs (2008-10-10 07:48:11)

AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6123|what

It comes down to a small number of very large issues to them.

The Republicans have fucked Iraq. They can't deny it, at all. McCain isn't likely to turn that around and seems to be a sabre rattler as much as the next guy

The economy is fucked. There's global recession. Whether or not this is due to the Republicans is debatable, what is not debatable is that the usually greedy far right are losing big time. Fear has taken over and they can't see how to get out of this spiral from either party.

Sarah Palin. Even moderate Republicans look at her, see her as a bimbo prone to the same old "Bushisms" they are completely sick of. She has no brains, no experience and appeals to the lowest common denominator. Hockey mums and Joe Six packs. It's enough to make any but the most fanatical Republicans sick.

Finally there is Obama. They pseudo-Black, pseudo-Muslim, pseudo-Terrorist who they can't stand. The change he is offering is tempting, but how can they vote for someone who has such strong left-leaning and "uncertain" motivations. They don't think he is an acceptable alternative - although every evidence suggests otherwise.

They can't vote Republican cause they don't want the Bush years to continue under a new guise, they can't vote Democratic, cause they hate the leader, hate socialism, communism, (even though Democrats are far from either ideology).

I personally think it's great.

As to the issue of extremist causing trouble, I think the panic and fear will settle once Obama takes over (here's hoping, anyway). The world will not end. A new era of peace won't be ushered in. Obama is not the great saviour some of the left are hoping for however. There won't be a pax-Americana. But the hope of one is all they really need.

Last edited by TheAussieReaper (2008-10-10 08:08:11)

https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6645|Canberra, AUS
One thing: The Pax Americana will continue election or not, soon to be joined by a Pax China.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
13rin
Member
+977|6449
no. We are the sane one's.  I'm all ready shifting my positions to compensate for the orgy of retardery that will likey consume us.

Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2008-10-10 08:16:17)

I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6123|what

DBBrinson1 wrote:

...the orgy of retardery that will likey consume us.
Ugh/
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6512|Texas - Bigger than France
Seems like you left out an option for those who vote for McCain but don't raise hell because he lost.

So far, I have no idea who I'm going to vote for...if I can't decide, I'm sitting out.  I think both candidates are good...but not great.

Last edited by Pug (2008-10-10 08:23:31)

13rin
Member
+977|6449

TheAussieReaper wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

...the orgy of retardery that will likey consume us.
Ugh/
Kinda how I feel when the reality of that asshat's chances of winning the Presidency sunk in.  That man shouldn't be allowed within 1000 yards of the White House.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6381|'Murka

"come unhinged completely"...

Oh, do you mean the way the liberals did when Bush was elected twice?

Blaming every single ill in the world on Obama, regardless of its actual cause? Blind hatred for everything Democrat simply because Obama is one?

I doubt it.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|6685|US
I have to agree with FEOS.  Rabid liberals have been doing this since Clinton left the White House.  Everything gets blamed on the Republicans/Bush/Cheney/Rove (shh...it's a massive right wing conspiracy!)

I disagree with part of what AussieReaper stated.  I don't think many conservatives find Obama's plans very tempting.  They fight against those types of plans on a near-constant basis, and Obama wants to expand them.

I guess I am a grumbler.  I don't like either main candidate, and will probably be voting 3rd party in the hopes that a bunch of people do the same.  Hopefully, some of the libertarians' ideas will get incorporated into the winner's policy...doubtful, but one can hope!
13rin
Member
+977|6449

RAIMIUS wrote:

I have to agree with FEOS.  Rabid liberals have been doing this since Clinton left the White House.  Everything gets blamed on the Republicans/Bush/Cheney/Rove (shh...it's a massive right wing conspiracy!)

I disagree with part of what AussieReaper stated.  I don't think many conservatives find Obama's plans very tempting.  They fight against those types of plans on a near-constant basis, and Obama wants to expand them.

I guess I am a grumbler.  I don't like either main candidate, and will probably be voting 3rd party in the hopes that a bunch of people do the same.  Hopefully, some of the libertarians' ideas will get incorporated into the winner's policy...doubtful, but one can hope!
Don't toss your vote away on 3rd party.  Go McCain.  If you are going to do the military, you'd be a fool to vote for Obama.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
CaptainSpaulding71
Member
+119|6327|CA, USA
Exactly - don't throw the vote away on 3rd party.  this is what happened in 1992 with Perot as he split the republican vote and is one reason we ended up with Clinton.  at the moment, the polls say the race is pretty close between the candidates and not vastly slanted to one side or the other, so by voting 3rd party candidate, you can end up repeating 1992.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6591|London, England

FEOS wrote:

"come unhinged completely"...

Oh, do you mean the way the liberals did when Bush was elected twice?

Blaming every single ill in the world on Obama, regardless of its actual cause? Blind hatred for everything Democrat simply because Obama is one?

I doubt it.
Judging from what people have said at McCain rallys (Obama is a terrorist, kill him etc..), it sounds worse than what people said about Bush (Impeach him, try him for war crimes etc..)

Than again, right wing extremists are always worse than liberal ones. When he said unhinged completely, he meant unhinged completely. Not "get angry that a conservative is in government and say some bad things"

I'd vouch that if there would be a neo con/right wing backlash against Obama, it would probably be a whole lot worse than the backlash you saw against Bush

Infact, I'd say the backlash against Bush was only after, mainly 9/11 and Iraq. Whereas any backlash against Obama would be straight away, not after some event which radically changes opinion of him.

We'll all just have to wait and see. Personally, I don't even think Obama will win. Sure, polls say this and that. But I bet when alot people are on that voting machine they won't vote for him.

Like, alot of people here on bf2s say they're still undecided between Obama and McCain. But I think it's pretty obvious who alot of you are going to vote for. And I doubt you people take part in those silly polls

Last edited by Mek-Stizzle (2008-10-10 09:03:17)

RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|6685|US

CaptainSpaulding71 wrote:

Exactly - don't throw the vote away on 3rd party.  this is what happened in 1992 with Perot as he split the republican vote and is one reason we ended up with Clinton.  at the moment, the polls say the race is pretty close between the candidates and not vastly slanted to one side or the other, so by voting 3rd party candidate, you can end up repeating 1992.
Have you seen the predicted electoral counts?  Obama is winning by quite a bit (if they are accurate). 
Why should I vote for someone whom I agree with about 60% of the time, if I can vote for someone I agree with 90%+?

This whole "lesser of two evils" and "don't throw away your vote" crap is what keeps good 3rd parties from having a chance.

Last edited by RAIMIUS (2008-10-10 09:14:53)

Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|6617
Did it happen with Clinton? no
13rin
Member
+977|6449

RAIMIUS wrote:

Have you seen the predicted electoral counts?  Obama is winning by quite a bit (if they are accurate). 
Why should I vote for someone whom I agree with about 60% of the time, if I can vote for someone I agree with 90%+?

This whole "lesser of two evils" and "don't throw away your vote" crap is what keeps good 3rd parties from having a chance.
Do you remember the exit polls in last election.  Friggin' Kennedy was running around like a drunken schoolgirl.

The person you agree with 90% doesn't exist.  The man is a puppet and is spoonfeeding you.  If OB is elected, I guarentee you military bases will close (just like they did under Clinton).

edit*-  Actually, it's the media that keeps 3rd party out of office.

Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2008-10-10 09:30:45)

I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|6685|US

DBBrinson1 wrote:

The person you agree with 90% doesn't exist.  The man is a puppet and is spoonfeeding you.

edit*-  Actually, it's the media that keeps 3rd party out of office.
Which person is spoonfeeding me?  I tend to look at voting records and statements (with emphasis on voting records).

I agree with the media thing, as well.

Last edited by RAIMIUS (2008-10-10 09:33:15)

Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6508|Long Island, New York

FEOS wrote:

"come unhinged completely"...

Oh, do you mean the way the liberals did when Bush was elected twice?

Blaming every single ill in the world on Obama, regardless of its actual cause? Blind hatred for everything Democrat simply because Obama is one?

I doubt it.
The reason it happened when Bush beat Gore was because of HOW it happened.

If it was vice versa and Gore won, the hardcore conservatives would be just as up in arms as the hardcore liberals were. And understandably too.
13rin
Member
+977|6449

RAIMIUS wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

The person you agree with 90% doesn't exist.  The man is a puppet and is spoonfeeding you.

edit*-  Actually, it's the media that keeps 3rd party out of office.
Which person is spoonfeeding me?  I tend to look at voting records and statements (with emphasis on voting records).

I agree with the media thing, as well.
Obahma is spoonfeeding you.  Here you go my friend, http://www.amazon.com/Obama-Nation-Left … 1416598065 .  You want to know the real Obama?  He's nothing like the man he pretends to be.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
CaptainSpaulding71
Member
+119|6327|CA, USA

RAIMIUS wrote:

CaptainSpaulding71 wrote:

Exactly - don't throw the vote away on 3rd party.  this is what happened in 1992 with Perot as he split the republican vote and is one reason we ended up with Clinton.  at the moment, the polls say the race is pretty close between the candidates and not vastly slanted to one side or the other, so by voting 3rd party candidate, you can end up repeating 1992.
Have you seen the predicted electoral counts?  Obama is winning by quite a bit (if they are accurate). 
Why should I vote for someone whom I agree with about 60% of the time, if I can vote for someone I agree with 90%+?

This whole "lesser of two evils" and "don't throw away your vote" crap is what keeps good 3rd parties from having a chance.
if you look back at polls as far back as 1976, you will find that the dems ALWAYS have a lead in the polls before the election yet it's not nearly the landslide that they projected come election day.  Carter in 76 had 30 point lead before election and it narrowed to just 1 point.  Similar results for successive elections prove that polls are not very reliable.

additionally, what third party candidate would actually be viable given the essentially two party system we have in congress?  would they even agree with the guy? 

would i like to see new blood?  sure...but let's be realistic as to what would happen beyond just electing the guy.

besides:  sex panther:  60% of the time it works every time! 
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6571|132 and Bush

No they will come completely unhinged if another candidate gets elected under the false proclamation of the conservative mindset. I'd rather not be betrayed again. Let the libs get hammered for the next four years. Pelosi has paved the way.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6381|'Murka

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

FEOS wrote:

"come unhinged completely"...

Oh, do you mean the way the liberals did when Bush was elected twice?

Blaming every single ill in the world on Obama, regardless of its actual cause? Blind hatred for everything Democrat simply because Obama is one?

I doubt it.
Judging from what people have said at McCain rallys (Obama is a terrorist, kill him etc..), it sounds worse than what people said about Bush (Impeach him, try him for war crimes etc..)
So you're painting an entire political movement with a single brush based on the actions of a few? Sounds remarkably similar to what you decry in the religion threads...

Than again, right wing extremists are always worse than liberal ones. When he said unhinged completely, he meant unhinged completely. Not "get angry that a conservative is in government and say some bad things"
And just how do you come to the conclusion that right wing extremists are "always" worse than liberal ones? Stalin was a left-wing extremist, mind you.

I'd vouch that if there would be a neo con/right wing backlash against Obama, it would probably be a whole lot worse than the backlash you saw against Bush
I'd vouch against it. The backlash against Bush was far worse than the backlash against Clinton.

Like, alot of people here on bf2s say they're still undecided between Obama and McCain. But I think it's pretty obvious who alot of you are going to vote for. And I doubt you people take part in those silly polls
I can't speak for anyone else, but I am still undecided. I'm just trying to provide some balance to the discussion, since BF2S appears to be an Obama lovefest and a Mccain/Palin hatefest.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6525
I'm calling it. Obama. The only thing that can save McCain now is racism.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6602|949

Spark wrote:

One thing: The Pax Americana will continue election or not, soon to be joined by a Pax China.
Over and done with - the Pax Americana.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6591|London, England

FEOS wrote:

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

FEOS wrote:

"come unhinged completely"...

Oh, do you mean the way the liberals did when Bush was elected twice?

Blaming every single ill in the world on Obama, regardless of its actual cause? Blind hatred for everything Democrat simply because Obama is one?

I doubt it.
Judging from what people have said at McCain rallys (Obama is a terrorist, kill him etc..), it sounds worse than what people said about Bush (Impeach him, try him for war crimes etc..)
So you're painting an entire political movement with a single brush based on the actions of a few? Sounds remarkably similar to what you decry in the religion threads...
No I'm fine with bashing entire groups of people by calling out a few. Anyway you're the one that started it by saying "the way liberals did"

And just how do you come to the conclusion that right wing extremists are "always" worse than liberal ones? Stalin was a left-wing extremist, mind you.
Well, in this context, you can bet your arse that the right wing extremists in the US are worse than the liberal ones.

I'd vouch against it. The backlash against Bush was far worse than the backlash against Clinton.
Of course the leftist backlash at Bush was worse than the right wing backlash against Clinton. That's because there wasn't much wrong with Clinton for the far right to really get egged on about. There is alot with Obama, there was alot with Bush that the left got annoyed about.

And when people like, you and usmarine say they still don't know who they're going to vote for and they might not vote for the GOP. That's the same as Cam saying he wouldn't vote for the Blue team and he's still undecided, yeah, that much (well, that's what it looks like, imo).

Last edited by Mek-Stizzle (2008-10-10 11:53:52)

RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|6685|US

DBBrinson1 wrote:

RAIMIUS wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

The person you agree with 90% doesn't exist.  The man is a puppet and is spoonfeeding you.

edit*-  Actually, it's the media that keeps 3rd party out of office.
Which person is spoonfeeding me?  I tend to look at voting records and statements (with emphasis on voting records).

I agree with the media thing, as well.
Obahma is spoonfeeding you.  Here you go my friend, http://www.amazon.com/Obama-Nation-Left … 1416598065 .  You want to know the real Obama?  He's nothing like the man he pretends to be.
I have no intention of voting for Obama.  I hate quite a bit of his platform (ironically, in areas where I tend to agree with the Dems, Obama doesn't go far enough for me!)  He is also a liar, IMO.  Look up his stances on gun control.  He has reversed, revised, covered, and denied his own beliefs and records.  The man is either a complete idiot on that topic or a liar.  Seeing as he is an intelligent man, I'm betting it's the latter!

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