Pages: 1

 

2008-10-09 03:19:58
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6595|Éire
https://flinchbot.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/ocp.jpg

I've noticed that a lot of Americans seem terrified of anything being the least bit nationalised or socialised, so if these nationalised institutions are not to be trusted then why not privatise the police and military?

...I can think of one or two reasons off the top of my head!
2008-10-09 03:26:51
Benzin
Member
+576|6304
For starters, the military has always been an institution of honor and since the Constitution was written, an arm of the federal government. The Constitution is a very important piece of paper in the USA. Shame that it isn't held to more often ...

Police have also been arms of the states versus the federal government. Each state (and city for that matter) is different and requires a different kind of policing.
2008-10-09 03:33:42
mr.hrundi
Wurstwassereis
+68|6742|Germany
Why not socialising the firefighters as well?

*calls 911*

"hey there, my house is burning"

"okay, that'll be 2000$, we'll be there in 10 minutes"

"that's too much, can't pay that"

"oh well, call the firefighters 100 miles away then, I heard they are cheaper. They won't make it before your house is burned to the ground, but they are affordable. good bye."
2008-10-09 03:35:17
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6458|what

Poor topic title. lol

Anyway, a privatization is going to lead to a drop in standards, clearly. When you privatize something, it's performance suddenly becomes measured by profit margin rather than what is main objectives should be.

You also run the risk of losing regulations a non-private enterprise is controlled under also.

You'll see a drop in standards, drop in effectiveness and poorer performance.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2008-10-09 03:43:11
JahManRed
wank
+646|6933|IRELAND

You see a young house breaker being dragged of in handcuffs and getting a slap if he's lippy for steeling a few thousand.
You are a CEO in charge of a multi billion pound company that has destroyed thousands of lives by steeling thousands of their investments getting a pleasant phone call asking them to attend the station at their convenience I'd say allot of police forces act like they are privatised already.

What about the military being used to protect fruit crops in South America.

Our police and military treat big companies differently than the ordinary man. Id say they act like they are privatised.
2008-10-09 05:36:49
zeidmaan
Member
+234|6720|Vienna

I thought about this question couple of times.
The main argument (made by americans) against government control and oversight is always that the government cant be trusted. Its always the same line... do you want some government bureaucrat to do this or that or to have control over this or that. Also a common argument is the "potential for abuse".
On the other hand the most powerfull institutions, that can ruin your lives in a second if they please, are all government controlled. One police officer could easily send you to jail if he wanted. Or a judge, prosecutor, attorney, IRS worker etc.
With so much blind faith in the private sector and so little faith in the government institutions Im surprised that people arent calling for privatisation of many government agencies.

One might hypothesize that its one of the reasons Americans are arming them selves more and more. They dont trust the government to do its job?
2008-10-09 06:52:59
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6595|Éire

zeidmaan wrote:

I thought about this question couple of times.
The main argument (made by americans) against government control and oversight is always that the government cant be trusted. Its always the same line... do you want some government bureaucrat to do this or that or to have control over this or that. Also a common argument is the "potential for abuse".
On the other hand the most powerfull institutions, that can ruin your lives in a second if they please, are all government controlled. One police officer could easily send you to jail if he wanted. Or a judge, prosecutor, attorney, IRS worker etc.
With so much blind faith in the private sector and so little faith in the government institutions Im surprised that people arent calling for privatisation of many government agencies.

One might hypothesize that its one of the reasons Americans are arming them selves more and more. They dont trust the government to do its job?
Good point. Many Americans (pointing no elbows!) seem to arm themselves to the teeth in the fear that freedom will all of a sudden be snatched away from them or something... the original premise for the right to bear arms originally being in place to allow for the continual existence of a militia should the Brits ever attempt 'round two'.

It's ironic then that many of the same people who oppose nationalisation and socialisation for these reasons often turn around and accept and support things like the Patriot act, which provide a platform for increased power for the state.
2008-10-09 06:59:36
Stubbee
Religions Hate Facts, Questions and Doubts
+223|7048|Reality
OCP
Robocop FTW
The US economy is a giant Ponzi scheme. And 'to big to fail' is code speak for 'niahnahniahniahnah 99 percenters'
2008-10-09 07:17:32
Schwarzelungen
drunklenglungen
+133|6601|Bloomington Indiana
we've all see blackwater in action
2008-10-09 07:23:07
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6956|USA

Braddock wrote:

zeidmaan wrote:

I thought about this question couple of times.
The main argument (made by americans) against government control and oversight is always that the government cant be trusted. Its always the same line... do you want some government bureaucrat to do this or that or to have control over this or that. Also a common argument is the "potential for abuse".
On the other hand the most powerfull institutions, that can ruin your lives in a second if they please, are all government controlled. One police officer could easily send you to jail if he wanted. Or a judge, prosecutor, attorney, IRS worker etc.
With so much blind faith in the private sector and so little faith in the government institutions Im surprised that people arent calling for privatisation of many government agencies.

One might hypothesize that its one of the reasons Americans are arming them selves more and more. They dont trust the government to do its job?
Good point. Many Americans (pointing no elbows!) seem to arm themselves to the teeth in the fear that freedom will all of a sudden be snatched away from them or something... the original premise for the right to bear arms originally being in place to allow for the continual existence of a militia should the Brits ever attempt 'round two'.

It's ironic then that many of the same people who oppose nationalisation and socialisation for these reasons often turn around and accept and support things like the Patriot act, which provide a platform for increased power for the state.
sorry folks, you can sit there and beat your chest all day long claiming Americans are paranoid, it does not change the fact that we own guns because we are allowed t oprotect ourselves ( sorry if you hate that) we are allowed to hunt, and shoot for sport. Law abiding gun owners enjoy these activities and privlidges. I am sorry if you have a govt. that tells you are not allowed to do these things.

The Patriot Act does not infringe on MY rights and freedoms, it "infringes on the terrorists ability to do us harm, I can live with that.

No terror attacks in the US since 911, but of course we can not discuss that stat. We would however discuss at great length the incredible failure of these programs if an attack did occur. Sad really, Bush can not get credit for something that did not happen.

Last edited by lowing (2008-10-09 07:26:01)

2008-10-09 07:23:10
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7041|Salt Lake City

zeidmaan wrote:

I thought about this question couple of times.
The main argument (made by americans) against government control and oversight is always that the government cant be trusted. Its always the same line... do you want some government bureaucrat to do this or that or to have control over this or that. Also a common argument is the "potential for abuse".
On the other hand the most powerfull institutions, that can ruin your lives in a second if they please, are all government controlled. One police officer could easily send you to jail if he wanted. Or a judge, prosecutor, attorney, IRS worker etc.
With so much blind faith in the private sector and so little faith in the government institutions Im surprised that people arent calling for privatisation of many government agencies.

One might hypothesize that its one of the reasons Americans are arming them selves more and more. They dont trust the government to do its job?
I would be far more afraid of being set up by private organizations looking to make money than a government run institution.  Just look at the current crisis we are having.  Do you really think if police, prison, and god forbid, the judicial system ever became privatized that they wouldn't hesitate to set people up and put through stiffer sentences in the name of the almighty $$$$?
2008-10-09 08:03:47
Kaosdad
Whisky Tango Foxtrot?
+201|6984|Broadlands, VA
Two points to make:

Way back in The Day the fire depatment WAS privatized in the US (think late 1700's).  That's why when you go thru old towns (Like Alexandria, VA) you see those plaques on the front walls by the door.  You bought into a fire company, and they watched over your house.  No plaque?  No water!

Part of our judicial system **is** privatized with attourney's offices that can be hired to defend if you have the cash - otherwise, yes you are correct, it's all part of the local jurisdiction's system in criminal cases.  The evils of a privatized judicial system really shows thru in civil cases where lowyers are hired to prosecute for the maximum $$$ they can get - NOT what is really deserved.  This is especially rampant in malpractice suits.
2008-10-09 09:09:05
chittydog
less busy
+586|7140|Kubra, Damn it!

I don't want either one being privatized. If the government continues down the road of being a police state, I'd much rather have my fellow citizens and neighbors in these roles. A fellow American is going to be much less likely to follow orders from some crooked asshole who wants them to fire on civilians. Once it's privatized, you better believe the quality of police and soldiers will go way downhill. You think you don't like illegal aliens cutting your grass or washing your dishes? Wait until they're arresting you or sent out to defend our country. I guarantee if the either the military or police force was privatized, the lobbyists would have blanket amnesty legislation going through Congress within weeks.
2008-10-09 09:30:17
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6595|Éire
This is my take on this issue...

Privatisation = profit, profit, profit.

Nationalisation = a body with a human face that follows a philosophy first and profit margins second.

What that 'philosophy' is depends on the incumbent Government/Department/regulator and whoever calls the shots is answerable to the tax paying public. If the public aren't happy they use voter power to make it known.

Now don't get me wrong, privatisation works very well for the general public when matters of life and death aren't involved. Privatisation often increases competition and drives prices down for certain goods and services for the general public but when it comes to things like policing, emergency services or healthcare I personally don't want profit to be the primary factor in decision-making.
2008-10-09 09:32:28
tuckergustav
...
+1,590|6219|...

Schwarzelungen wrote:

we've all see blackwater in action
this
...
2008-10-09 14:20:48
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|7020|US
1. Simple economics.
National defense, law enforcement, etc. are public services.  The public would not *individually* pay for enough coverage.  It is the "tragedy of the commons."
We use public funding for these items because that is the only way they will effectively function.  Also, law enforcement and national defense are powers granted to the government in the US Constitution.

2. Oversight
You don't want PMCs running your defense, because they are only accountable to themselves and their shareholders.  If they had a monopoly on military power, they would likely become a dictatorial corporation illegally enforcing their economic interests on a defenseless nation.  The same idea goes for law enforcement.  Bribery would no longer be an unconscionable action, but good business.  We do not want that, nor would we accept that.


I don't mind using public funds when a privatized system would not function.  However, there are many areas where we use public funds for things which would function/self-correct on their own.

Last edited by RAIMIUS (2008-10-09 14:23:13)

2008-10-09 14:23:36
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6752|Chicago, IL
because running a military is not a profitable venture, both arms suppliers and soldiers have to be paid, along with R&D and bureaucratic expenses, but, other than taxation, there is no source of income.
2008-10-09 14:28:55
Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|6007|College Park, MD

S.Lythberg wrote:

because running a military is not a profitable venture, both arms suppliers and soldiers have to be paid, along with R&D and bureaucratic expenses, but, other than taxation, there is no source of income.
Aye. I was thinking, how would a private military pay for all those bonuses? The Army can afford to give new recruits $40,000 bonuses because it's part of the government.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg
2008-10-09 16:11:42
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6716|'Murka

zeidmaan wrote:

I thought about this question couple of times.
The main argument (made by americans) against government control and oversight is always that the government cant be trusted. Its always the same line... do you want some government bureaucrat to do this or that or to have control over this or that. Also a common argument is the "potential for abuse".
On the other hand the most powerfull institutions, that can ruin your lives in a second if they please, are all government controlled. One police officer could easily send you to jail if he wanted. Or a judge, prosecutor, attorney, IRS worker etc.
With so much blind faith in the private sector and so little faith in the government institutions Im surprised that people arent calling for privatisation of many government agencies.

One might hypothesize that its one of the reasons Americans are arming them selves more and more. They dont trust the government to do its job?
It's not a matter that the government can't be trusted...at least not the inference you have there. It's that they can't be trusted with money. If it's something the private sector can do better, it should be given to the private sector to do better.

As many have pointed out here already, police, military, fire/rescue, etc. cannot be done better by the private sector. Additionally, our Constitution requires the government to have a standing military for national defense, so it can't be done without some kind of Constitutional Amendment repealing that portion of the Constitution.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2008-10-09 16:23:23
13rin
Member
+977|6784

tuckergustav wrote:

Schwarzelungen wrote:

we've all see blackwater in action
this

http://www.spike.com/video/mercenary-sniper-in/2677403

Better quality.-^

Personally I'd rather roll with these guys:


Which brings up my point.  A government couldn't afford a private army.  If the US had one at this point China would have out bid us and we'd be fucked.

Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2008-10-09 16:32:09)

I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.

 

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