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KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I refer to myself as a foodie because I like food. I like experiencing different ways to eat the same dishes. I like going out and trying new and novel restaurants. Its a way to distinguish from someone like Macbeth who eats for sustenance.

I'm not going on yelp and writing 4 page reviews about the egg roll I just ate (although i did once as a complete satire and got banned from yelp as a result), but I am going to tell you about the restaurant down the block that makes the most amazing pupusas

i can't be bothered to go in on foodies. they are objects of scorn for all the well-rehearsed reasons.

'food' as culture is valid. it's the centre-piece of domestic and family life, cultural get-togethers, etc. it clearly has some social valence. we bond over food. food is important. it's more than just thin gruel we use to literally get requisite calories. there is culture to food, i'll grant that.

but 'foodies' just abstract it, as if being able to taste nice things and appreciate them is some sort of refinement. you have a tongue. you can tell between a well-done dish and a bad one. i mean congrats? it just seems like such a silly thing to elevate into a pursuit. there's no spiritual or intellectual content there. and don't even get me started on people who can't eat at a nice restaurant without letting everyone fucking know about it. 'i've got a booking at ...'. here's my 12 instagram photos of every course at ... . it's like the anti-thesis of food. you pay all that money to go to a nice restaurant to be catered to and enjoy an evening with friends. whyyyy foodies, whyyyy

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

i respect cooking. i like it. it's a good hobby. but it's a craft. people telling themselves that cooking is 'creative' and 'expressive' are like people who label themselves 'foodies'. you want to know why people label themselves foodies? because it gives them a patina of sophistication and culture. like people who fuss over wine and make it their entire identity.

i'm sorry but everyone on the planet needs food to survive. everybody cooks the same meals, more or less. the reason that 'foodie' culture is so popular now is because, of all 'cultural' activities, it's the one with the very lowest bar of entry. you don't need a fucking chisel and a stand, do you? you need a tongue and nose and basic sense-apparatus and an ability to go 'mmmm! me likey!' wow such an art.

Kind of like audiophiles?

absolutely. i mean what sort of a nonsense phrase is 'the art of listening to music'?

there's a science of acoustics, i'll say that. getting the optimal speaker and sound set-up for your room. maximising quality. but an 'art' to 'appreciating' music?

there the comparison ends. music is meant to express something higher, you know, jay. that's why it's indisputably an Art. what does a well-made carbonara express?

Larssen wrote:

uziq wrote:

i respect cooking. i like it. it's a good hobby. but it's a craft. people telling themselves that cooking is 'creative' and 'expressive' are like people who label themselves 'foodies'. you want to know why people label themselves foodies? because it gives them a patina of sophistication and culture. like people who fuss over wine and make it their entire identity.

i'm sorry but everyone on the planet needs food to survive. everybody cooks the same meals, more or less. the reason that 'foodie' culture is so popular now is because, of all 'cultural' activities, it's the one with the very lowest bar of entry. you don't need a fucking chisel and a stand, do you? you need a tongue and nose and basic sense-apparatus and an ability to go 'mmmm! me likey!' wow such an art.

Food is very expressive. It's one of the most important things we do and often core to people's cultural identities. There is no immigrant family anywhere in the world that doesn't see its culinary background as important to their being and heritage. Honestly I recommend you watch dave chang's 2 seasons of ugly delicious because he really goes into this in detail and makes a lot of good points, also on whether or not food is an art.

i recommend you read immanuel kant because he also goes into this in detail and distinguishes arts from crafts.

dave chang. kant. hmmm.

the essence of an art is that it is autonomous and without utility. a craft has a use. kantian aesthetics 101.

i never said cooking wasn't important, or the most important thing in our lives, even. that makes sense. we need food or we die. no surprises that cultures privilege food and rituals of eating food. but why does it have to be art? the bigger problem is why do a bunch of coked-up chefs need to validate themselves in this way. nobody is saying they aren't doing a great job, just because they aren't [i]artistes[i].

with iberico ham because they treated food as a simple craft only to feed people.

why does a craft have to be simple? most things that are crafted are the opposite of simple. they can be exquisite. but a well-crafted chair, for all its ornamentation and finesse, is there to be sat on. a meal is there to be eaten and shat.

Last edited by uziq (2020-05-22 16:01:34)

uziq wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I refer to myself as a foodie because I like food. I like experiencing different ways to eat the same dishes. I like going out and trying new and novel restaurants. Its a way to distinguish from someone like Macbeth who eats for sustenance.

I'm not going on yelp and writing 4 page reviews about the egg roll I just ate (although i did once as a complete satire and got banned from yelp as a result), but I am going to tell you about the restaurant down the block that makes the most amazing pupusas

i can't be bothered to go in on foodies. they are objects of scorn for all the well-rehearsed reasons.

'food' as culture is valid. it's the centre-piece of domestic and family life, cultural get-togethers, etc. it clearly has some social valence. we bond over food. food is important. it's more than just thin gruel we use to literally get requisite calories. there is culture to food, i'll grant that.

but 'foodies' just abstract it, as if being able to taste nice things and appreciate them is some sort of refinement. you have a tongue. you can tell between a well-done dish and a bad one. i mean congrats? it just seems like such a silly thing to elevate into a pursuit. there's no spiritual or intellectual content there. and don't even get me started on people who can't eat at a nice restaurant without letting everyone fucking know about it. 'i've got a booking at ...'. here's my 12 instagram photos of every course at ... . it's like the anti-thesis of food. you pay all that money to go to a nice restaurant to be catered to and enjoy an evening with friends. whyyyy foodies, whyyyy

Oh i agree with the pretentiousness of it, and the social media aspect of anything is mind-blowing to me, but some people live simple lives and as such must define themselves as something. I never got that and I never will. I'm a man of many tastes, abilities, and hobbies. The socially constructed boxes cannot contain me

David Chang is a pretentious ass. Momofuko is delicious food, but goddamn did he turn fancy ramen noodles into something and is now patting himself on the back everywhere? Worse than watching Anthony Bourdain.

Jay wrote:

David Chang is a pretentious ass. Momofuko is delicious food, but goddamn did he turn fancy ramen noodles into something and is now patting himself on the back everywhere? Worse than watching Anthony Bourdain.

he'll be recommending me marie kondo next so i can learn about 'the art of minimal living'.

these normies love to make everything they do into AN ART. they're just so sophisticated. that's why they get their entire cultural prospectus from netflix.

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

uziq wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I refer to myself as a foodie because I like food. I like experiencing different ways to eat the same dishes. I like going out and trying new and novel restaurants. Its a way to distinguish from someone like Macbeth who eats for sustenance.

I'm not going on yelp and writing 4 page reviews about the egg roll I just ate (although i did once as a complete satire and got banned from yelp as a result), but I am going to tell you about the restaurant down the block that makes the most amazing pupusas

i can't be bothered to go in on foodies. they are objects of scorn for all the well-rehearsed reasons.

'food' as culture is valid. it's the centre-piece of domestic and family life, cultural get-togethers, etc. it clearly has some social valence. we bond over food. food is important. it's more than just thin gruel we use to literally get requisite calories. there is culture to food, i'll grant that.

but 'foodies' just abstract it, as if being able to taste nice things and appreciate them is some sort of refinement. you have a tongue. you can tell between a well-done dish and a bad one. i mean congrats? it just seems like such a silly thing to elevate into a pursuit. there's no spiritual or intellectual content there. and don't even get me started on people who can't eat at a nice restaurant without letting everyone fucking know about it. 'i've got a booking at ...'. here's my 12 instagram photos of every course at ... . it's like the anti-thesis of food. you pay all that money to go to a nice restaurant to be catered to and enjoy an evening with friends. whyyyy foodies, whyyyy

Oh i agree with the pretentiousness of it, and the social media aspect of anything is mind-blowing to me, but some people live simple lives and as such must define themselves as something. I never got that and I never will. I'm a man of many tastes, abilities, and hobbies. The socially constructed boxes cannot contain me

i believe you

I bet you didn't like that episode because he ate pho with Barry soetero

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I bet you didn't like that episode because he ate pho with Barry soetero

I have no idea who barry soetero is

Edit: no, I don't care if he ate pho with Obama.

Last edited by Jay (2020-05-22 16:08:21)

celebrity chefs are a bad thing for culture as a whole. we shouldn't be elevating these people to high status, as if they are chaperones of the soul. they make good food. why are they becoming celebrities and role models?

i'm pretty sure that, with the rise of 'cooking channels' and tv shows about cooking, kitchen skills and literacy with cuisines has actually fallen. people cook way less. they all gawp at food being made on the television and eat microwave meals. to get good at cooking, you have to actually do it. practice. surrounding us with cooking shows all day actually has the opposite effect.

which reminds me, as an aside i have some very funny anecdotes about ina garten. i worked on acquiring a book with her husband a few years ago. they are a very sweet couple.

Jay wrote:

I used to watch No Reservations religiously right up until he did an episode about wanting to move to Vietnam. He, who hated having a window into the kitchen in the restaurant he worked in, waxed on poetically about the peasant rice farmers toiling in the paddies through the living room window. I can just see him cozying up with an opium pipe and watching the pastoral scene of people breaking their fucking backs in subsistence living conditions. Yeah, go fuck yourself. Get an ocean view far away from a fishing village instead.

I have a MAGA boomer acquaintance that I am facebook friends with. I followed his post and left likes here and there on some of his non-MAGA shit in the spirit of good will or whatever. I unfollowed him but remain friends after he made a post making fun of Chef Boy-R-Dane killing himself because the the guy was anti-Trump.

uziq wrote:

celebrity chefs are a bad thing for culture as a whole. we shouldn't be elevating these people to high status, as if they are chaperones of the soul. they make good food. why are they becoming celebrities and role models?

i'm pretty sure that, with the rise of 'cooking channels' and tv shows about cooking, kitchen skills and literacy with cuisines has actually fallen. people cook way less. they all gawp at food being made on the television and eat microwave meals. to get good at cooking, you have to actually do it. practice. surrounding us with cooking shows all day actually has the opposite effect.

which reminds me, as an aside i have some very funny anecdotes about ina garten. i worked on acquiring a book with her husband a few years ago. they are a very sweet couple.

Jeffrey?

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

uziq wrote:

celebrity chefs are a bad thing for culture as a whole. we shouldn't be elevating these people to high status, as if they are chaperones of the soul. they make good food. why are they becoming celebrities and role models?

i'm pretty sure that, with the rise of 'cooking channels' and tv shows about cooking, kitchen skills and literacy with cuisines has actually fallen. people cook way less. they all gawp at food being made on the television and eat microwave meals. to get good at cooking, you have to actually do it. practice. surrounding us with cooking shows all day actually has the opposite effect.

which reminds me, as an aside i have some very funny anecdotes about ina garten. i worked on acquiring a book with her husband a few years ago. they are a very sweet couple.

Jeffrey?

yes! i did a book with him about globalisation. buy the hardback and check the 32pp colour plate section. i wrote all 5,000 words of its captions. he sent me a thank you note.

another day on mount olympus.