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2010-08-09 10:22:51
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6519|so randum

Bertster7 wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

FatherTed wrote:


wut

loads of people tip
Yeah, like round up to the nearest 5er for dinner. That hardly counts.
No, that doesn't count.

But for a proper meal most people tip 10-15% if they get good service - that's my experience of it anyway.

But in Europe it tends to be dependent on getting good service.
Same... i wont do :maths: like our american friends to come to a figure, but it's rarely just a round-up. I generally dont tip at pubs unless im trying to nail a barmaid, but bar's i'll call two pints a tenner for example.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
2010-08-09 10:23:44
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5377|London, England

Bertster7 wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

FatherTed wrote:


wut

loads of people tip
Yeah, like round up to the nearest 5er for dinner. That hardly counts.
No, that doesn't count.

But for a proper meal most people tip 10-15% if they get good service - that's my experience of it anyway.

But in Europe it tends to be dependent on getting good service.
Well, now you know in advance why you received poor service in a restaurant next time you visit the US.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-08-09 10:28:34
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6601|SE London

JohnG@lt wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:


Yeah, like round up to the nearest 5er for dinner. That hardly counts.
No, that doesn't count.

But for a proper meal most people tip 10-15% if they get good service - that's my experience of it anyway.

But in Europe it tends to be dependent on getting good service.
Well, now you know in advance why you received poor service in a restaurant next time you visit the US.
I've typically had pretty good service whenever I've eaten at restaurants in the US. Usually flirty waitresses and they often get decent tips from me....
2010-08-09 10:29:49
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5377|London, England

Bertster7 wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:


No, that doesn't count.

But for a proper meal most people tip 10-15% if they get good service - that's my experience of it anyway.

But in Europe it tends to be dependent on getting good service.
Well, now you know in advance why you received poor service in a restaurant next time you visit the US.
I've typically had pretty good service whenever I've eaten at restaurants in the US. Usually flirty waitresses and they often get decent tips from me....
Then you got lucky Black people and foreigners generally get shit service because they don't tip.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-08-09 10:31:06
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6519|so randum
be irish -> get bought free drinks everywhere because everyone assumes you somehow heard about their great great grandad
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
2010-08-09 10:33:21
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6601|SE London

JohnG@lt wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:


Well, now you know in advance why you received poor service in a restaurant next time you visit the US.
I've typically had pretty good service whenever I've eaten at restaurants in the US. Usually flirty waitresses and they often get decent tips from me....
Then you got lucky Black people and foreigners generally get shit service because they don't tip.
Not something I've experienced.

I find that pretty much everywhere that isn't Paris (where this often does not apply) you get great service if you just smile and be nice to people.
2010-08-09 10:33:29
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5377|London, England

FatherTed wrote:

be irish -> get bought free drinks everywhere because everyone assumes you somehow heard about their great great grandad
On St. Patty's day, an Irish accent is guaranteed a lay in NYC.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-08-09 10:33:47)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-08-09 10:35:54
mikkel
Member
+383|6620

chittydog wrote:

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

I don't see the point in tipping someone. I mean, it's not like they're not on a wage already.
In the US, waiters only make about half of minimum wage because it's expected that you'll tip. If everyone stopped tipping, their pay would go up and food prices would do the same. With the tipping system, you end up paying a little less (since they don't report all their tips to the IRS) AND you get to control their pay based on the quality of their work.
I can't stand when people bring up these arguments in defense of tipping. Firstly, if people stopped tipping, you should be paying about the same for your food as you did for your food plus the customary tip. To suggest a positive benefit from aiding some lowlife in committing tax fraud using a portion of my money that I paid taxes on is ridiculous for obvious reasons. Secondly, people have their pay controlled for the quality of their work in every sector. If you do a good job, you get a pay cheque, and if you don't, you get fired. This doesn't change simply because you receive tips as part of your job.

Customary tipping is a thoroughly inane concept that cannot be justified in favor of available alternatives, and it exists primarily to goad people into parting with their money to avoid socially awkward situations. It pisses me off particularly in places where you aren't given the opportunity to tip discreetly.
2010-08-09 10:43:37
jord
Member
+2,382|6697|The North, beyond the wall.
It appears tipping is a deeper debate than at first glance. Its now branched into 3 sub catagories of people who tip for a better service, people who tip for philanthropic reasons and people who just don't tip, like me. Id be happy for minimum wage, it would suffice.
2010-08-09 10:47:04
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6601|SE London

mikkel wrote:

chittydog wrote:

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

I don't see the point in tipping someone. I mean, it's not like they're not on a wage already.
In the US, waiters only make about half of minimum wage because it's expected that you'll tip. If everyone stopped tipping, their pay would go up and food prices would do the same. With the tipping system, you end up paying a little less (since they don't report all their tips to the IRS) AND you get to control their pay based on the quality of their work.
I can't stand when people bring up these arguments in defense of tipping. Firstly, if people stopped tipping, you should be paying about the same for your food as you did for your food plus the customary tip. To suggest a positive benefit from aiding some lowlife in committing tax fraud using a portion of my money that I paid taxes on is ridiculous for obvious reasons. Secondly, people have their pay controlled for the quality of their work in every sector. If you do a good job, you get a pay cheque, and if you don't, you get fired. This doesn't change simply because you receive tips as part of your job.

Customary tipping is a thoroughly inane concept that cannot be justified in favor of available alternatives, and it exists primarily to goad people into parting with their money to avoid socially awkward situations. It pisses me off particularly in places where you aren't given the opportunity to tip discreetly.
I completely agree. A tip should be for good or excellent service only. Which means that a good portion of the time, you won't tip - because it's statistically unlikely that you will get great service that often.
2010-08-09 10:50:08
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6704|United States of America
Just since it's customary, I'll go 10-20% as I've never had such bad service to insult someone with less or none at all. I'd much rather be an average/nice customer than a cheap bastard who has big plans for an extra $4.
2010-08-09 10:57:42
Winston_Churchill
Bazinga!
+521|6758|Toronto | Canada

Just went to get my shoes shined at a place across the street, the middle aged asian guy there charged me $5 for it.  I gave him $7 (all my change) and he said "oh, you've paid me too much" so I told him it was okay, it was for him.  Then he said thank you profusely and took the shoes back into the room and redid them.  It pays to not be cheap

Plus he deserves it, he looks like he works so hard at what he does.
2010-08-09 10:57:51
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6601|SE London

DesertFox- wrote:

Just since it's customary, I'll go 10-20% as I've never had such bad service to insult someone with less or none at all. I'd much rather be an average/nice customer than a cheap bastard who has big plans for an extra $4.
When it's such a pitiful amount, then it's not a big deal - but I'm still against it in principle (why should someone be paid extra for just doing their job?). When you've just paid £200-300 for a meal then the difference between a 10 and 20% tip is a lot bigger....


If they do their job very well, then absolutely they deserve a tip and they'll certainly get one from me (though perhaps not a 20% tip on a £300 bill).

Last edited by Bertster7 (2010-08-09 10:59:44)

2010-08-09 11:03:44
jord
Member
+2,382|6697|The North, beyond the wall.

DesertFox- wrote:

Just since it's customary, I'll go 10-20% as I've never had such bad service to insult someone with less or none at all. I'd much rather be an average/nice customer than a cheap bastard who has big plans for an extra $4.
Its not really 4 dollars though is it over your life...it will probably be thousands, and that's money id rather have.

Each their own I guess. There are people who need charity far more than people who have a full time, steady job though...
2010-08-09 11:08:55
Winston_Churchill
Bazinga!
+521|6758|Toronto | Canada

Bertster7 wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

Just since it's customary, I'll go 10-20% as I've never had such bad service to insult someone with less or none at all. I'd much rather be an average/nice customer than a cheap bastard who has big plans for an extra $4.
When it's such a pitiful amount, then it's not a big deal - but I'm still against it in principle (why should someone be paid extra for just doing their job?). When you've just paid £200-300 for a meal then the difference between a 10 and 20% tip is a lot bigger....


If they do their job very well, then absolutely they deserve a tip and they'll certainly get one from me (though perhaps not a 20% tip on a £300 bill).
I'm willing to bet most of us here have never paid for a $300-500 meal, so thats not really what we're talking about.  Personally, I dont think I've ever had a tippable purchase of something over $50ish
2010-08-09 11:09:52
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6704|United States of America
Share the wealth, I say (<-- socialism!). If we're talking opportunity costs over the course of a lifetime, it's still a drop in the bucket to other expenditures, and hopefully I'll be making enough not to worry about a few thousand over several decades. I'm intersted in where Bertster spends 200-300 pounds, though. It sounds like he's got the whole bill for 8-10 people someplace.
2010-08-09 11:13:08
jord
Member
+2,382|6697|The North, beyond the wall.
Where I to be a regular at fancy restaurants id rather just put the money to one side and buy a car or for my potential grandkids or something. Well that's an example, id probably buy myself something lolz.

Last edited by jord (2010-08-09 11:14:06)

2010-08-09 11:17:26
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6601|SE London

DesertFox- wrote:

Share the wealth, I say (<-- socialism!). If we're talking opportunity costs over the course of a lifetime, it's still a drop in the bucket to other expenditures, and hopefully I'll be making enough not to worry about a few thousand over several decades. I'm intersted in where Bertster spends 200-300 pounds, though. It sounds like he's got the whole bill for 8-10 people someplace.
Loads of places.

A few bottles of wine and it all adds up....

That'd be for two. Meals at the Fat Duck, Petrus, Le Gavroche and Nobu often run to those sorts of prices with 2 or 3 bottles of wine. Although if I'm spending my own money it tends to be cheap lunch menus at these sorts of places which are usually ~£30 a head, usually with an extra £30 a head for wine.
2010-08-09 11:30:46
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6668

DesertFox- wrote:

Share the wealth, I say (<-- socialism!). If we're talking opportunity costs over the course of a lifetime, it's still a drop in the bucket to other expenditures, and hopefully I'll be making enough not to worry about a few thousand over several decades. I'm intersted in where Bertster spends 200-300 pounds, though. It sounds like he's got the whole bill for 8-10 people someplace.
Yeah at McDonalds...
2010-08-09 11:36:09
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5377|London, England

Bertster7 wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

Just since it's customary, I'll go 10-20% as I've never had such bad service to insult someone with less or none at all. I'd much rather be an average/nice customer than a cheap bastard who has big plans for an extra $4.
When it's such a pitiful amount, then it's not a big deal - but I'm still against it in principle (why should someone be paid extra for just doing their job?). When you've just paid £200-300 for a meal then the difference between a 10 and 20% tip is a lot bigger....


If they do their job very well, then absolutely they deserve a tip and they'll certainly get one from me (though perhaps not a 20% tip on a £300 bill).
Because a servers wages are predicated on having the tip built in. Minimum wage is about $8 here in America and servers only get paid $3 an hour. We don't have the high wages that professional waiters in Europe get where it's actually a career.

There is a cultural divide between Europeans and Americans on this subject.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-08-09 11:48:00
Buckles
Cheeky Keen
+329|6575|Kent, UK

JohnG@lt wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

Just since it's customary, I'll go 10-20% as I've never had such bad service to insult someone with less or none at all. I'd much rather be an average/nice customer than a cheap bastard who has big plans for an extra $4.
When it's such a pitiful amount, then it's not a big deal - but I'm still against it in principle (why should someone be paid extra for just doing their job?). When you've just paid £200-300 for a meal then the difference between a 10 and 20% tip is a lot bigger....


If they do their job very well, then absolutely they deserve a tip and they'll certainly get one from me (though perhaps not a 20% tip on a £300 bill).
Because a servers wages are predicated on having the tip built in. Minimum wage is about $8 here in America and servers only get paid $3 an hour. We don't have the high wages that professional waiters in Europe get where it's actually a career.

There is a cultural divide between Europeans and Americans on this subject.
lol professional waiters.

The waiting staff in the kind of places I eat (i.e. chain restaurants, £40 meal for two type places) are either at uni/college, waiting to go to uni/college, uni/college dropouts, or graduates who have fancy degrees but can't get a proper job because they have no experience and no-one is hiring.

I doubt even a waiter at a glitzy London, Michelen Star join earns close to £20kpa on salary.
2010-08-09 11:49:29
jord
Member
+2,382|6697|The North, beyond the wall.
They probably will in london. More perhaps...
2010-08-09 11:51:44
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5377|London, England

Buckles wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

When it's such a pitiful amount, then it's not a big deal - but I'm still against it in principle (why should someone be paid extra for just doing their job?). When you've just paid £200-300 for a meal then the difference between a 10 and 20% tip is a lot bigger....


If they do their job very well, then absolutely they deserve a tip and they'll certainly get one from me (though perhaps not a 20% tip on a £300 bill).
Because a servers wages are predicated on having the tip built in. Minimum wage is about $8 here in America and servers only get paid $3 an hour. We don't have the high wages that professional waiters in Europe get where it's actually a career.

There is a cultural divide between Europeans and Americans on this subject.
lol professional waiters.

The waiting staff in the kind of places I eat (i.e. chain restaurants, £40 meal for two type places) are either at uni/college, waiting to go to uni/college, uni/college dropouts, or graduates who have fancy degrees but can't get a proper job because they have no experience and no-one is hiring.

I doubt even a waiter at a glitzy London, Michelen Star join earns close to £20kpa on salary.
I was talking mostly about Continental Europe, the French and the Germans. No idea what's customary in England.

Either way, when I go out, 15% is the baseline but 20% is normal.

Edit - And yes berster, this includes multi hundred dollar meals as well.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-08-09 11:52:09)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-08-09 12:08:12
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6668

I always tip 20% on meals when in the US. If it wasn't for the stereotype of Europeans being bad tippers I'd probably tip 15%.
2010-08-09 12:23:38
Benzin
Member
+576|6018
One reason I don't want to leave Europe: I am not forced to tip. If the service was good, I round up to the nearest 50 cent or more if the service was better than good.

 

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