Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6695|North Carolina

Ilocano wrote:

John, why does someone without even a high school diploma, expect to make $25 an hour for about 4 hours of work?  That's being conservative btw.  Our Chili's girl was working six tables and probably took in at least $40 in tip in the hour we were in.

I don't buy making up for those times when not enough customers are around.
It really depends on the side of town you work in, the restaurant you work in, and the demographics of the city you work in (if you know what I mean).

Last edited by Turquoise (2010-08-10 21:34:05)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5648|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

That's why we invented these things

http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/ … chine.jpeG

Have they made their way down under yet?
Of course, but I have to pay money in now and then.
Oh, we have slots to make deposits in the machine itself.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6941|USA

JohnG@lt wrote:

lowing wrote:

reading half of this thread it is easily concluded, if you are a liberal you do not tip, ( or if you do you will bitch about it) if you are a conservative, you tip well.

Fits the pattern quite well, that liberals are generous only with other peoples money, but when it comes to their own money, they abandon their own ideology. Go figure.
That's a stretch and a half... it's just a cultural thing man.
and what is liberalism, and conservatism if not cultural things? Values, morality, background etc all follow cultural  fenceline that devide liberals from conservatives.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6965|Canberra, AUS
yes yes we get it liberals are evil self-serving demons whilst conservatives are upstanding shining beacons of morality.

or unless you actually feel like making the distinction between "american vs. european" and ""liberal" vs. conservative"
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
jord
Member
+2,382|6968|The North, beyond the wall.
Try to ignore him spark...
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6941|USA

Spark wrote:

yes yes we get it liberals are evil self-serving demons whilst conservatives are upstanding shining beacons of morality.

or unless you actually feel like making the distinction between "american vs. european" and ""liberal" vs. conservative"
Didn't say any of that. In fact if any group in this forum has been labeled evil it has been liberals labeling conservatives as evil, greedy, selfish, manipulative, controlling etc..

What I did say is true. Liberals tend to want to dictate what I am supposed to do with my money, while protecting their own.

The piece that John Galt posted several weeks ago is a perfect example. Unions, which are hands down liberal as it gets, expects companies to pay top dollar for menial labor, and will extort that company into doing so, while they themselves hire at minimum wage for the same shit.

Ahhh here it is http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 3#p3241863

Last edited by lowing (2010-08-11 04:46:40)

Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6965|Canberra, AUS
and how does that in any way shape or form imply that "liberals don't tip"
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6941|USA

jord wrote:

Try to ignore him spark...
awww how cute, you are starting a boycott lowing movement...Nothing speaks of what my argument has been against people like you than that. You can not stand toe to toe with a real argument for liberalism or the theft of other peoples money so you ignore or dismiss. Hell you even show that in a topic as simple as "tipping".
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6941|USA

Spark wrote:

and how does that in any way shape or form imply that "liberals don't tip"
It doesn't, read the people posting here, read who does not tip, and who bitches about if they do....generally,liberals. The same people that tell me how much I should make, and how much is too much for me to have. I myself tip 20% or better on every interaction that expects tipping.

Last edited by lowing (2010-08-11 04:53:16)

jord
Member
+2,382|6968|The North, beyond the wall.
Not really since I'm not a liberal. You've shown you can't debate with any kind of civility and I'm trying to save spark some time so he doesn't have to circle jerk with you. Lest you get backed into another corner, see the world for how it really is and that nobody with any kind of intellect agrees with you and resort to petty namecalling again.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6941|USA

jord wrote:

Not really since I'm not a liberal. You've shown you can't debate with any kind of civility and I'm trying to save spark some time so he doesn't have to circle jerk with you. Lest you get backed into another corner, see the world for how it really is and that nobody with any kind of intellect agrees with you and resort to petty namecalling again.
Oh I forgot, you are the one that claimed DWI is no big deal and anyone punished for it at any great severity is unjustly persecuted, so I wished for you or someone you love to be next because you were in the best position for understanding and forgiving of DWI criminals. I only said it because your lack of sympathy for the victims would best serve you and could save any other person the suffering of loss of a loved one. I mean ya know since it was no big deal.
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6971|Disaster Free Zone

lowing wrote:

Spark wrote:

and how does that in any way shape or form imply that "liberals don't tip"
It doesn't, read the people posting here, read who does not tip, and who bitches about if they do....generally,liberals. The same people that tell me how much I should make, and how much is too much for me to have. I myself tip 20% or better on every interaction that expects tipping.
Not our fault the restaurant owners in America never budgeted for actually paying their staff.
jord
Member
+2,382|6968|The North, beyond the wall.
Correct, you wished for me and/or my family to be killed by a drunk driver. The epitone of great debating right there. The last person who employed that tactic on me was some 13 year old on bf2 a few years ago.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6941|USA

DrunkFace wrote:

lowing wrote:

Spark wrote:

and how does that in any way shape or form imply that "liberals don't tip"
It doesn't, read the people posting here, read who does not tip, and who bitches about if they do....generally,liberals. The same people that tell me how much I should make, and how much is too much for me to have. I myself tip 20% or better on every interaction that expects tipping.
Not our fault the restaurant owners in America never budgeted for actually paying their staff.
LMAO!! see?
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6941|USA

jord wrote:

Correct, you wished for me and/or my family to be killed by a drunk driver. The epitone of great debating right there. The last person who employed that tactic on me was some 13 year old on bf2 a few years ago.
You stated DWI was in a sense no big deal, what is your problem then? Obviously I struck a nerve with you and it would appear DWI is IN FACT a big fucking deal to those AFFECTED by it now doesn't it? My regret is I had to go to that extreme to prove you wrong. I obviously do nt wish harm on you or anyone you know or love. Would an apology help? I apologize. but put what I said in context, I was making a point.

Last edited by lowing (2010-08-11 05:15:16)

jord
Member
+2,382|6968|The North, beyond the wall.
Why are you angry at my lack of empathy. You don't give a shit about poor people, children in africa starving, afghani civilians being killed, the homeless, human rights abuse across the globe. That's because if its out of sight its out of mind, yes?
DonFck
Hibernator
+3,227|6921|Finland

Please stay on topic and remove all tin foil hats before posting in this thread.

Lowing, I know you'd like to find some kind of pattern between tipping and political views, but unfortunately I must point out to you that cultural differences play a far bigger role in what the practice is. We could of course try to draw some kinds of parallels between culture and political view, this I think however, is unnecessary; many countries that are branded "capitalist" or "right wing" have tipping policies that do not match with what you said. I'm basing this on the assumption that "Capitalist country" = "country with highest possible economic freedom".

Here's a summary of different countries' practices:

Tipping Around the World wrote:

International Tipping Guidelines

Argentina    0    Everybody    Tipping is illegal in Argentina, but waiters often expect a small tip. Be discreet.
Australia    0    Everybody    Tipping in Australia is basically non-existent.
Austria    5-10%    Restaurant Staff    Tip more if service is exceptional.
Belgium    0    Restaurant Staff    Tipping is not expected in restaurants.
Bolivia    0-5%    Service Staff    Service charges are often added to a bill, making tipping unnecessary.
Brazil    10%    Restaurant Staff    The customary tip for good service at restaurants is 10%.
Bulgaria    Variable    Service Staff    Tipping is not customary in Bulgaria, but may be left as a sign of appreciation.
Canada    10-20%    Service Staff    Tipping is expected for restaurants, bars, food delivery and taxis.
Chile    10-20%    Restaurant Staff    By Chilean law, tipping is mandatory in restaurants.
China    0    Everybody    Government policy in China mandates that foreigners are charged more for services they receive.
Costa Rica    1    Porters    Tipping is not customary in Costa Rica, except for porters or others who might handle luggage.
Croatia    0-10%    Restaurant Staff    Service charges are typically added to restaurant bills, eliminating the need to tip.
Czech Republic    Variable    Service Staff    Tipping is done as a only sign of appreciation.
Denmark    Variable    Service Staff    Tipping is done as a only sign of appreciation.
Egypt    0    Taxi Drivers    Taxi Drivers are not tipped.
Egypt    10-20%    Everybody Else    Tipping is a way of life in Egypt. Although taxi drivers are not tipped, a caleche (horse-drawn 'buggy') driver should be tipped on top of the agreed fare.
Estonia    0    Everybody    Tipping is not a common practice in Estonia.
Ethiopia    Variable    Service Staff    Tipping is common for service in hotels, restaurants, bars and parking lots. If tipping a dancer in a restaurant, stick a paper money bill on their forehead.
Finland    Variable    Service Staff    Tipping is optional, but if you do, use cash.
France    0    Restaurant Staff    By French law, tips are included in the price of service (typically around 15%). No additional tipping is required.
Germany    5%    Service Staff    Amount tipped may vary for quality of service.
Greece    Variable    Service Staff    Amount tipped varies for quality of service. It is not common to tip taxi drivers.
Hungary    Variable    Service Staff    Amount tipped may vary for quality of service. Repair technicians may also be tipped.
Hong Kong    0    Taxi Drivers    Taxi Drivers do not expect tips (but they won't be turned down either.)
India    Variable    Restaurant Staff    Tipping in India really only applies to high-end restaurants, which have only recently established the practice. Otherwise, tipping is not commonly practiced..
Israel    0    Hotel Staff    No tipping is required. A service charge, usually around 10%, is added to your bill for hotel services.
Ireland    10-12%    Service Staff    Tipping is becoming customary in Ireland, although not in pubs.
Israel    12%    Restaurant Staff    It's customary to tip the waiter 12% regardless of the quality of service.
Italy    0    Restaurant Staff    No tips are expected in restaurants throughout Italy, but it is customary, even if the restaurant adds a service charge.
Japan    0    Everybody    Tipping in Japan is non-existent.
Malaysia    0    Everybody    Tipping is not customary in Malaysia. Restaurants do however often add a 10% service charge, eliminating any need to tip.
Mexico    Variable    Everybody    Tipping is expected for almost any service. The amount to be tipped is at the discretion of the tipper.
Mexico    Variable    Parking Meter Cop    If parked at a meter with a short time limit, offer a tip for the patrolling parking meter officer to watch the meter to avoid being ticketed.
Netherlands    5-10%    Restaurant Staff    The amount tipped should vary with the quality of service.
New Zealand    0    Everybody    Service is almost always included in the prices you pay, so no tipping is necessary.
Norway    5-10%    Restaurant Staff    Tipping is strictly optional, with the amount dependent upon the quality of service.
Paraguay    0    Everybody    Tipping is uncommon in Paraguay. Service charges are often added to bills.
Romania    10%    Everybody    Shops not frequented by westerners often refuse tips.
Russia    1-10%    Restaurant Staff    Amount tipped varies by the quality of the establishment.
Serbia    10-15%    Restaurant Staff    Tipping is expected if the customer is satisfied with the establishment's service.
Singapore    0    Everybody    Tipping is not required in Singapore. Restaurants do however often add a 10% service charge, eliminating any need to tip.
Spain    0    Everybody    Tipping is not customary in Spain.
South Africa    10%    Restaurant Staff    This level of tipping applies unless the restaurant applies a mandatory service fee for a large party.
South Korea    0    Everybody    Tipping is not expected in South Korea. Restaurants and hotels do however often add a 10% service charge, eliminating any need to tip. When paying a taxi driver, tipping is done in the form of asking them to keep the change.
Slovenia    10%+    Tourist Areas    Tipping is not customary in Slovenia, except for high-tourist areas.
Sweden    Variable    Service Staff    Tipping is done as a only sign of appreciation.
Switzerland    0    Everybody    Tipping is not customary in Switzerland.
Taiwan    50    Airport Porters    Tipping is rare except for airport porters, who are often tipped 50 new Taiwan dollars per bag. Restaurants often add a 10% service charge, eliminating any need to tip.
United Kingdom    Drinks    Bartenders in Pubs    Do not tip cash at the bar in a pub. If service is good, offer to buy the barkeep a drink (only tip cash at their request after first offering to buy them a drink.)
United Kingdom    10-20%    Bartenders in Restaurants    Tip cash. This gets a bit tricky if you're in a pub that serves food (where you wouldn't tip), but tipping is expecting in food establishments that serve drinks.
United States    15-20%    Service Staff    Amount to be tipped varies according to type and quality of service provided.
Source

So translated to tl;dr: I do understand that you tip 20%, it's normal where you are, but about liberal/conservative differences in tipping, please, get the fuck out of here.
I need around tree fiddy.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6941|USA

DonFck wrote:

Wall of text shortened for other members' viewing pleasure -Don-
I speak of individualism, and individual practices of the forum members, and what I saw is the liberals here do not tip or bitch about it, while the "greedy" conservatives tip quite well. what is it you are speaking of again?
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6941|USA

jord wrote:

Why are you angry at my lack of empathy. You don't give a shit about poor people, children in africa starving, afghani civilians being killed, the homeless, human rights abuse across the globe. That's because if its out of sight its out of mind, yes?
I am angry at your lack of sympathy, because, as I proved, by my extremity in my argument, you yourself would care if it happened to you. Again I apologze for my tactic, but it did prove my point in spades.

By the way, not sure what this has to do with starving kids in Africa, but I will ask, what have you done, besides bitch, about starving kids in Africa?
DonFck
Hibernator
+3,227|6921|Finland

I'm speaking of that you were just proven wrong by jord who doesn't see himself as liberal, but then you just tried to divert the conversation somewhere else.

Don't make this thread about liberal/conservative again, go to another thread that you made and ramble about it. Or muslims for that matter.

I'm asking you, in the nicest possible way: Please try to keep the conversation normal, if you are in any way capable.
I need around tree fiddy.
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6971|Disaster Free Zone

lowing wrote:

DonFck wrote:

Wall of text shortened for other members' viewing pleasure -Don-
I speak of individualism, and individual practices of the forum members, and what I saw is the liberals here do not tip or bitch about it, while the "greedy" conservatives tip quite well. what is it you are speaking of again?
Because you're expected to subsidise the wages of service staff because the owners don't pay them enough. Here your 20% "tip" is a mandatory charge included in the cost of the meal. If the service is good however I'll add a real "tip" over and above this, so please GTFO with your crap about 'liberals' (of which I'm not) not tipping.
jord
Member
+2,382|6968|The North, beyond the wall.

lowing wrote:

jord wrote:

Why are you angry at my lack of empathy. You don't give a shit about poor people, children in africa starving, afghani civilians being killed, the homeless, human rights abuse across the globe. That's because if its out of sight its out of mind, yes?
I am angry at your lack of sympathy, because, as I proved, by my extremity in my argument, you yourself would care if it happened to you. Again I apologze for my tactic, but it did prove my point in spades.

By the way, not sure what this has to do with starving kids in Africa, but I will ask, what have you done, besides bitch, about starving kids in Africa?
I have sympathy I just have no empathy because it hasn't happened to me. An apology means not doing the same thing again, so if you're commited to not taking debate down to the lowly levels of personal insults and ill wishing I accept your apology and we can all move on.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6941|USA

DonFck wrote:

I'm speaking of that you were just proven wrong by jord who doesn't see himself as liberal, but then you just tried to divert the conversation somewhere else.

Don't make this thread about liberal/conservative again, go to another thread that you made and ramble about it. Or muslims for that matter.

I'm asking you, in the nicest possible way: Please try to keep the conversation normal, if you are in any way capable.
What I observed in this thread is as I said, generally true, that is not to say there are not exceptions. So sheath your sword oh great moderator of the forum.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6941|USA

DrunkFace wrote:

lowing wrote:

DonFck wrote:

Wall of text shortened for other members' viewing pleasure -Don-
I speak of individualism, and individual practices of the forum members, and what I saw is the liberals here do not tip or bitch about it, while the "greedy" conservatives tip quite well. what is it you are speaking of again?
Because you're expected to subsidise the wages of service staff because the owners don't pay them enough. Here your 20% "tip" is a mandatory charge included in the cost of the meal. If the service is good however I'll add a real "tip" over and above this, so please GTFO with your crap about 'liberals' (of which I'm not) not tipping.
They don't pay them much because they work for tips. They are paid according to the service they provide. THis helps in them providing great service. By you not tipping great service you are stiffing the one who serves you, and generally speaking, this thread shows liberals want to hold on to their money.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6941|USA

jord wrote:

lowing wrote:

jord wrote:

Why are you angry at my lack of empathy. You don't give a shit about poor people, children in africa starving, afghani civilians being killed, the homeless, human rights abuse across the globe. That's because if its out of sight its out of mind, yes?
I am angry at your lack of sympathy, because, as I proved, by my extremity in my argument, you yourself would care if it happened to you. Again I apologze for my tactic, but it did prove my point in spades.

By the way, not sure what this has to do with starving kids in Africa, but I will ask, what have you done, besides bitch, about starving kids in Africa?
I have sympathy I just have no empathy because it hasn't happened to me. An apology means not doing the same thing again, so if you're commited to not taking debate down to the lowly levels of personal insults and ill wishing I accept your apology and we can all move on.
You have made it clear DWI is wrongly criminalized in your opinion, unless it happens to you, then the gloves are off apparently. My point has been made regarding your attitude, and your flat inconsistency in it, if not flat wrong. It has been proven by your reaction in if it happened to you opposed to it happening to someone else. In context, my comment to you was spot on. You want heads to roll if you were victimized, and everyone else is over reacting to DWI.

Last edited by lowing (2010-08-11 09:36:26)

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