Yeah it's okay. If it was as bad as murder it would be illegal in every free thinking, modern, advanced society.Roc18 wrote:
Ok so since we all dont know what its like it makes it ok.
Im done arguing.
Last edited by jord (2008-09-21 14:53:40)
If you get raped its not like you just say "Hey no biggie I'm ok" and go about your daily life. There are psychological consequences as well.Roc18 wrote:
Ok so since we all dont know what its like it makes it ok.
Im done arguing.
Last edited by Spearhead (2008-09-21 14:56:24)
You are looking at things far too simplistically Roc18, it's not just the issue of the pain of child birth. A woman who has suffered a rape has suffered enough physical and emotional trauma already and to expect her to have the child and put it up for adoption and then go through life knowing that she has a child walking the earth, possibly full of bitterness would be an extension of her suffering and it would be a further instance of her paying the price for the sins of a rapist. If a woman is raped and impregnated against her will then she has the right to choose not to be forced into a life altering scenario... you can complain all you want about the rights of the unborn child but I'm afraid her rights come first.Roc18 wrote:
If a woman is raped the solution isnt to get rid of the child that is growing in her stomach just because she doesnt want to go through childbirth, its a human life ffs.
Using abortion as a form of 'contraception' is not acceptable in my opinion, it's lazy, irresponsible and completely morally objectionable.Roc18 wrote:
This is even less acceptable with people who accidentally get pregnant and still get rid of the child just because they dont want them, give them away for adoption and at least give the child their life.
True, that's why it is such a difficult decision... but the choice should be there for victims of rape.Stingray24 wrote:
Abortion also results in severe emotional trauma.
It's their decision, if they really want to abort they may get no emotional scarring whatsoeverStingray24 wrote:
Abortion also results in severe emotional trauma.
It's not about redefining the status of what is in the womb, it's about a woman who has been raped having the choice to not be forced into a life-plan she did not want. Anyone who thinks a rape victim goes out celebrating after getting an abortion done and then goes back to her normal routine without any psychological damage is deluded.Stingray24 wrote:
Mothers are very different from fathers when they decide they don't want the child. The reason is this, every pregnant mother knows they are carrying a new life. Fathers do not experience that reality. No amount of new terms to re-define the baby as a fetus/parasite/inconvenience changes that. Her reality is more severe.
There's a difference, abortion is a choice, rape is not.Stingray24 wrote:
Abortion also results in severe emotional trauma.
Many more than you would think. Look up "waiting child program". That's just one example.[pt] KEIOS wrote:
How many couples would adopt a disabled child, when they could adopt a normal one. When you had the choice, which one, would you take? Be honest.Stingray24 wrote:
There is a third option that you failed to consider ... adoption by countless couple who who cannot conceive children of their own. The red tape and cost that holds up many adoptions needs to be eliminated so loving couples can adopt these children.
Why do you keep ignoring the option of adoption? Every argument is either she raises the rapist's child or she aborts it. There's a third option that would actually have potential for some good to come out of the situation: giving a child to a family that cannot have one of their own. Have it raised in a loving household.Braddock wrote:
It's not about redefining the status of what is in the womb, it's about a woman who has been raped having the choice to not be forced into a life-plan she did not want. Anyone who thinks a rape victim goes out celebrating after getting an abortion done and then goes back to her normal routine without any psychological damage is deluded.Stingray24 wrote:
Mothers are very different from fathers when they decide they don't want the child. The reason is this, every pregnant mother knows they are carrying a new life. Fathers do not experience that reality. No amount of new terms to re-define the baby as a fetus/parasite/inconvenience changes that. Her reality is more severe.
A rape victim suffers physical and psychological distress when she is raped, then after her physical injuries heal she suffers further psychological and emotional distress as she seeks to find out whether or not she is pregnant, then if she is pregnant she suffers the emotional distress of having to choose between having her life irreversibly turned upside down by having the child or having the child inside her (that at the end of the day is half part of her) aborted, then finally she either suffers a lifetime of emotional difficulty where she has her rapists child and changes her entire life-plan accordingly or a lifetime of emotional distress where she must live with her decision to abort her unborn child... it's not a very nice scenario and who are we to tell them they have to pick one option over the other?
I have never ignored that aspect of the argument... I have even addressed it again in this thread. My opinion is that having the child and having to live your life knowing that there may be someone out there that is possibly bitter and angry at you for abandoning them is a prolonging of the rape victim's suffering. Also one must consider the psychological effect this would have on the child... imagine finding out that A. your father was a rapist and B. your mother didn't want you.FEOS wrote:
Why do you keep ignoring the option of adoption? Every argument is either she raises the rapist's child or she aborts it. There's a third option that would actually have potential for some good to come out of the situation: giving a child to a family that cannot have one of their own. Have it raised in a loving household.
Hence why she should be able to chose herself, not having you or others chose for her because you think you know what is best for her ...Stingray24 wrote:
Mothers are very different from fathers when they decide they don't want the child. The reason is this, every pregnant mother knows they are carrying a new life. Fathers do not experience that reality. No amount of new terms to re-define the baby as a fetus/parasite/inconvenience changes that. Her reality is more severe.
I don't think anyone is arguing against having the choice, Braddock. The argument here is which choice is the right one.Braddock wrote:
I have never ignored that aspect of the argument... I have even addressed it again in this thread. My opinion is that having the child and having to live your life knowing that there may be someone out there that is possibly bitter and angry at you for abandoning them is a prolonging of the rape victim's suffering. Also one must consider the psychological effect this would have on the child... imagine finding out that A. your father was a rapist and B. your mother didn't want you.FEOS wrote:
Why do you keep ignoring the option of adoption? Every argument is either she raises the rapist's child or she aborts it. There's a third option that would actually have potential for some good to come out of the situation: giving a child to a family that cannot have one of their own. Have it raised in a loving household.
And besides all that FEOS, many rape victims do decide to have the child so your argument is moot. My point is that the choice should be there for those that do not want to have the child.
Last edited by FEOS (2008-09-22 02:16:38)
There is no 'right' choice, life doesn't work that way. There are too many variables to be considered and every situation is different, it is a decision that every woman has to consider very seriously.FEOS wrote:
I don't think anyone is arguing against having the choice, Braddock. The argument here is which choice is the right one.Braddock wrote:
I have never ignored that aspect of the argument... I have even addressed it again in this thread. My opinion is that having the child and having to live your life knowing that there may be someone out there that is possibly bitter and angry at you for abandoning them is a prolonging of the rape victim's suffering. Also one must consider the psychological effect this would have on the child... imagine finding out that A. your father was a rapist and B. your mother didn't want you.FEOS wrote:
Why do you keep ignoring the option of adoption? Every argument is either she raises the rapist's child or she aborts it. There's a third option that would actually have potential for some good to come out of the situation: giving a child to a family that cannot have one of their own. Have it raised in a loving household.
And besides all that FEOS, many rape victims do decide to have the child so your argument is moot. My point is that the choice should be there for those that do not want to have the child.
I think I know how life works, Braddock. There is a right choice in every situation. It's just not generally up to the outside public to determine the rightness or wrongness of said choice.Braddock wrote:
There is no 'right' choice, life doesn't work that way. There are too many variables to be considered and every situation is different, it is a decision that every woman has to consider very seriously.FEOS wrote:
I don't think anyone is arguing against having the choice, Braddock. The argument here is which choice is the right one.
I don't think that at all. You just keep coming down on the side of "there must be a choice" and I'm saying I don't disagree with that. It's the rationale for making the choice that we disagree on.Braddock wrote:
By the way I actually have a friend who was raped and she kept the child and she is absolutely lovely so I hope you don't presume I'm completely blinkered on one side of this argument.
My point of view is quite simple... if a woman is raped and she wants to abort the child then fine, it is her choice and who am I to force her to do otherwise? If she decides she wants to have the child and raise it herself then fine, it is her choice and who am I to force her to do otherwise? If she decides to have the child and put if up for adoption then fine, it is her choice and who am I to force her to do otherwise?FEOS wrote:
I think I know how life works, Braddock. There is a right choice in every situation. It's just not generally up to the outside public to determine the rightness or wrongness of said choice.Braddock wrote:
There is no 'right' choice, life doesn't work that way. There are too many variables to be considered and every situation is different, it is a decision that every woman has to consider very seriously.FEOS wrote:
I don't think anyone is arguing against having the choice, Braddock. The argument here is which choice is the right one.I don't think that at all. You just keep coming down on the side of "there must be a choice" and I'm saying I don't disagree with that. It's the rationale for making the choice that we disagree on.Braddock wrote:
By the way I actually have a friend who was raped and she kept the child and she is absolutely lovely so I hope you don't presume I'm completely blinkered on one side of this argument.
/facedeskVaregg wrote:
The "right" choice differ from situation to situation doesn't it FEOS, what is right for one can be the wrong choice for someone else and that's why they should be able to make that choice themselves ...
And we are in agreement on all those points. But that wasn't the point of the discussion.Braddock wrote:
My point of view is quite simple... if a woman is raped and she wants to abort the child then fine, it is her choice and who am I to force her to do otherwise? If she decides she wants to have the child and raise it herself then fine, it is her choice and who am I to force her to do otherwise? If she decides to have the child and put if up for adoption then fine, it is her choice and who am I to force her to do otherwise?
I don't agree with abortion as a form of 'contraception' but I would agree with abortion when the life of the mother is in danger.
Well if you're talking about some sort of absolute moral 'right' or 'wrong' on the issue of abortion in terms of how it relates to rape victims I don't think it exists, it is relative to each victim and their particular set of circumstances in my opinion.FEOS wrote:
And we are in agreement on all those points. But that wasn't the point of the discussion.Braddock wrote:
My point of view is quite simple... if a woman is raped and she wants to abort the child then fine, it is her choice and who am I to force her to do otherwise? If she decides she wants to have the child and raise it herself then fine, it is her choice and who am I to force her to do otherwise? If she decides to have the child and put if up for adoption then fine, it is her choice and who am I to force her to do otherwise?
I don't agree with abortion as a form of 'contraception' but I would agree with abortion when the life of the mother is in danger.
Spare your funnies FEOSFEOS wrote:
/facedeskVaregg wrote:
The "right" choice differ from situation to situation doesn't it FEOS, what is right for one can be the wrong choice for someone else and that's why they should be able to make that choice themselves ...
Didn't I just say that?
... i don't care why they abort as long as it is a well considered decision and they have the necessary opportunity to receive council.topic wrote:
Is Abortion Choosing Who Lives and Who Does Not?
Out of all families i know, which adopted kids, i do not know a single one which adopted a disabled child. Most of them are from Latin America or Asia. How many do you know?FEOS wrote:
Many more than you would think. Look up "waiting child program". That's just one example.[pt] KEIOS wrote:
How many couples would adopt a disabled child, when they could adopt a normal one. When you had the choice, which one, would you take? Be honest.Stingray24 wrote:
There is a third option that you failed to consider ... adoption by countless couple who who cannot conceive children of their own. The red tape and cost that holds up many adoptions needs to be eliminated so loving couples can adopt these children.
Last edited by ..teddy..jimmy (2008-09-22 03:23:38)