That wouldnt be racist, racism is hatred or discrmination against a race which is people who look similar to each other based on physical characteristics, nationality and ethnicity deal less with physical appearance and more with cultural and linguistic characteristics which is different from race. Thats why I said Americans and Polish people arent races but Nationalities and or Ethnic groupsghettoperson wrote:
If I said, "Roc18, Americans suck dick", would you not think that I was being racist?Roc18 wrote:
You just agreed with me that a redneck applies to white people by saying it applies to "white ignorant people". Its a stereotype that refers to white people who are generally poor not ignorant otherwise Jeff Foxworth wouldnt be making fun himself for being a redneck. And you agreed with me by saying Poles are a linguistically and culturally distinct people which means its not a race, race has to do with appearance not cultural characteristics. Polish is an ethnicity as well as a nationality not a race.Braddock wrote:
No it's not. Redneck is not a term that applies to white people, it is a term that applies to white people who are ignorant. The term originally came about as a reference to people who were not educated and had to do manual work out in the sun, so while the term applies to white people it also only applies to ignorant white people i.e. ignorance is the defining factor, not being white.
Poles are a linguistically and culturally distinct people. America is a mish mash of different races and ethnic groups, the only authentically American 'race' would be native Americans... as such being American is a nationality (and even a distinct cultural group) but not a race.
The majority of people these days use racism to mean discrimination against people from different countries as well, whether it's technically correct or not.
EDIT: Mostly I would think because we appear to be lacking in a word for that. I suppose xenophobist or something would work. Doesn't roll off the tongue quite as well though.
EDIT: Mostly I would think because we appear to be lacking in a word for that. I suppose xenophobist or something would work. Doesn't roll off the tongue quite as well though.
Last edited by ghettoperson (2008-08-31 15:37:44)
well, you have to look at that both ways right?Kmarion wrote:
I'm arguing the point of people passing judgment on her character.
The truth hurts, but its better than lying.White-Fusion wrote:
Fuck you tbh.Lotta_Drool wrote:
Women do stupid shit. Going out alone drinking in some club dressed like a tramp, hmmm, nothing can go wrong with this plan. Then some scum bag A. drugs and rapes her B. gets her hammered and takes her home, does her, she wakes up and freaks out yelling rape because she blacked out and isn't the horny tramp she was 3 hrs ago.
Not saying this is what happened to her or what she did, but guys who screw women drunk out of their mind deserve the rape conviction and women that put themselve in that position deserve to feel raped.
Stupid people, that is all this usually is. What ever happened to the concept of knowing someone more than 2 hours before you screw them.
Like I just said. She went out with someone, not alone.The#1Spot wrote:
The truth hurts, but its better than lying.White-Fusion wrote:
Fuck you tbh.Lotta_Drool wrote:
Women do stupid shit. Going out alone drinking in some club dressed like a tramp, hmmm, nothing can go wrong with this plan. Then some scum bag A. drugs and rapes her B. gets her hammered and takes her home, does her, she wakes up and freaks out yelling rape because she blacked out and isn't the horny tramp she was 3 hrs ago.
Not saying this is what happened to her or what she did, but guys who screw women drunk out of their mind deserve the rape conviction and women that put themselve in that position deserve to feel raped.
Stupid people, that is all this usually is. What ever happened to the concept of knowing someone more than 2 hours before you screw them.
Not alone.
Not alone.
And the clothes you were have no bearing on whether or not you deserve to be raped or not.
Clothes don't matter.
Clothes don't matter.
Wrong again I'm afraid. Look up the dictionary definition of 'race' and read all the variant meanings.Roc18 wrote:
You just agreed with me that a redneck applies to white people by saying it applies to "white ignorant people". Its a stereotype that refers to white people who are generally poor not ignorant, otherwise Jeff Foxworthy for example wouldnt be making fun himself for being a redneck. And you agreed with me by saying Poles are a linguistically and culturally distinct people which means its not a race, race has to do with appearance not cultural characteristics. Polish is an ethnicity as well as a nationality not a race.Braddock wrote:
No it's not. Redneck is not a term that applies to white people, it is a term that applies to white people who are ignorant. The term originally came about as a reference to people who were not educated and had to do manual work out in the sun, so while the term applies to white people it also only applies to ignorant white people i.e. ignorance is the defining factor, not being white.Roc18 wrote:
How? Polish is a nationality/ethnic group and calling someone a redneck is a stereotype for white people, its like calling an asian a chink.
Poles are a linguistically and culturally distinct people. America is a mish mash of different races and ethnic groups, the only authentically American 'race' would be native Americans... as such being American is a nationality (and even a distinct cultural group) but not a race.
And in relation to the term redneck, it does not apply to white people in relation to their wealth or lack thereof, if I wanted to slag someone off for being poor and white I would call them white trash, not redneck. Rednecks were originally people who were not talented or intelligent enough to get jobs other than those that were outdoor and manual in their nature... you can deny that if you like but it is where the term came from.
And in any case Jeff Foxworthy defines "redneck" as "a glorious lack of sophistication," stating "that we are all guilty of it at one time or another"... no mention of race (or wealth for that matter) there I'm afraid.
You keep saying im wrong without putting up a good argument. I think sterotypes are stupid and people should be looked at as individuals before bieng looked at as what race or ethnicity they are.Braddock wrote:
Wrong again I'm afraid. Look up the dictionary definition of 'race' and read all the variant meanings.Roc18 wrote:
You just agreed with me that a redneck applies to white people by saying it applies to "white ignorant people". Its a stereotype that refers to white people who are generally poor not ignorant, otherwise Jeff Foxworthy for example wouldnt be making fun himself for being a redneck. And you agreed with me by saying Poles are a linguistically and culturally distinct people which means its not a race, race has to do with appearance not cultural characteristics. Polish is an ethnicity as well as a nationality not a race.Braddock wrote:
No it's not. Redneck is not a term that applies to white people, it is a term that applies to white people who are ignorant. The term originally came about as a reference to people who were not educated and had to do manual work out in the sun, so while the term applies to white people it also only applies to ignorant white people i.e. ignorance is the defining factor, not being white.
Poles are a linguistically and culturally distinct people. America is a mish mash of different races and ethnic groups, the only authentically American 'race' would be native Americans... as such being American is a nationality (and even a distinct cultural group) but not a race.
And in relation to the term redneck, it does not apply to white people in relation to their wealth or lack thereof, if I wanted to slag someone off for being poor and white I would call them white trash, not redneck. Rednecks were originally people who were not talented or intelligent enough to get jobs other than those that were outdoor and manual in their nature... you can deny that if you like but it is where the term came from.
And in any case Jeff Foxworthy defines "redneck" as "a glorious lack of sophistication," stating "that we are all guilty of it at one time or another"... no mention of race (or wealth for that matter) there I'm afraid.
Did you not look up the dictionary definition of 'race'? That was what I was providing as proof of your assertion being wrong, here, I'll save you the effort...Roc18 wrote:
You keep saying im wrong without putting up a good argument. I think sterotypes are stupid and people should be looked at as individuals before bieng looked at as what race or ethnicity they are.Braddock wrote:
Wrong again I'm afraid. Look up the dictionary definition of 'race' and read all the variant meanings.Roc18 wrote:
You just agreed with me that a redneck applies to white people by saying it applies to "white ignorant people". Its a stereotype that refers to white people who are generally poor not ignorant, otherwise Jeff Foxworthy for example wouldnt be making fun himself for being a redneck. And you agreed with me by saying Poles are a linguistically and culturally distinct people which means its not a race, race has to do with appearance not cultural characteristics. Polish is an ethnicity as well as a nationality not a race.
And in relation to the term redneck, it does not apply to white people in relation to their wealth or lack thereof, if I wanted to slag someone off for being poor and white I would call them white trash, not redneck. Rednecks were originally people who were not talented or intelligent enough to get jobs other than those that were outdoor and manual in their nature... you can deny that if you like but it is where the term came from.
And in any case Jeff Foxworthy defines "redneck" as "a glorious lack of sophistication," stating "that we are all guilty of it at one time or another"... no mention of race (or wealth for that matter) there I'm afraid.
race2
• noun 1 each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics. 2 racial origin or distinction: rights based on race. 3 a group of people sharing the same culture, language, etc.; an ethnic group. 4 a group of people or things with a common feature. 5 Biology a distinct population within a species; a subspecies.
And by the way, redneck is a pejorative that can be applied to any individual that display signs of ignorance as the defining factor is ignorance, not race. It would be like calling someone a chav if you observe them acting like one. It's not a presumptive or racist term, it's like calling someone stupid if they are not very intelligent.
Ok Im still sure that classifying people from different countries as ethnicities and nationalities is better than calling them a race because race sounds like it would deal more with biological features rather than specific cultures and nationalities such as polish people.Braddock wrote:
Did you not look up the dictionary definition of 'race'? That was what I was providing as proof of your assertion being wrong, here, I'll save you the effort...Roc18 wrote:
You keep saying im wrong without putting up a good argument. I think sterotypes are stupid and people should be looked at as individuals before bieng looked at as what race or ethnicity they are.Braddock wrote:
Wrong again I'm afraid. Look up the dictionary definition of 'race' and read all the variant meanings.
And in relation to the term redneck, it does not apply to white people in relation to their wealth or lack thereof, if I wanted to slag someone off for being poor and white I would call them white trash, not redneck. Rednecks were originally people who were not talented or intelligent enough to get jobs other than those that were outdoor and manual in their nature... you can deny that if you like but it is where the term came from.
And in any case Jeff Foxworthy defines "redneck" as "a glorious lack of sophistication," stating "that we are all guilty of it at one time or another"... no mention of race (or wealth for that matter) there I'm afraid.
race2
• noun 1 each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics. 2 racial origin or distinction: rights based on race. 3 a group of people sharing the same culture, language, etc.; an ethnic group. 4 a group of people or things with a common feature. 5 Biology a distinct population within a species; a subspecies.
And by the way, redneck is a pejorative that can be applied to any individual that display signs of ignorance as the defining factor is ignorance, not race. It would be like calling someone a chav if you observe them acting like one. It's not a presumptive or racist term, it's like calling someone stupid if they are not very intelligent.
God just don't call each names. /argument.
Gotta disagree. Don't be advertising samples if you're not giving any ...jord wrote:
Clothes don't matter.
Clothes don't matter.
Are you saying a woman wearing revealing clothing is partially at fault if she gets raped?Stingray24 wrote:
Gotta disagree. Don't be advertising samples if you're not giving any ...jord wrote:
Clothes don't matter.
Clothes don't matter.
Not at all. I'm saying that if she wears something revealing, take a friend with her who can be trusted to look after her. Otherwise, alcohol, lower inhibitions, and showing off her assets could get her more than she planned. That's reality, doesn't justify a sexual crime in any way.
Last edited by Stingray24 (2008-08-31 18:56:50)
What has the world come to.Stingray24 wrote:
Not at all. I'm saying that if she wears something revealing, take a friend with her who can be trusted to look after her. Otherwise, alcohol, lower inhibitions, and showing off her assets could get her more than she planned. That's reality, doesn't justify a sexual crime in any way.
Welcome to my world, where life sucks and you have to find the bright side of things. Don't get me wrong White-Fusion as I feel for ya.White-Fusion wrote:
What has the world come to.Stingray24 wrote:
Not at all. I'm saying that if she wears something revealing, take a friend with her who can be trusted to look after her. Otherwise, alcohol, lower inhibitions, and showing off her assets could get her more than she planned. That's reality, doesn't justify a sexual crime in any way.
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
Horny men coming to clubs and bars to find drunk chicks is new? Sorry, but what woman doesn't know that.White-Fusion wrote:
What has the world come to.Stingray24 wrote:
Not at all. I'm saying that if she wears something revealing, take a friend with her who can be trusted to look after her. Otherwise, alcohol, lower inhibitions, and showing off her assets could get her more than she planned. That's reality, doesn't justify a sexual crime in any way.
Last edited by Stingray24 (2008-08-31 21:28:48)
Pretty much any girl without a brainStingray24 wrote:
Horny men coming to clubs and bars to find drunk chicks is new? Sorry, but what woman doesn't know that.White-Fusion wrote:
What has the world come to.Stingray24 wrote:
Not at all. I'm saying that if she wears something revealing, take a friend with her who can be trusted to look after her. Otherwise, alcohol, lower inhibitions, and showing off her assets could get her more than she planned. That's reality, doesn't justify a sexual crime in any way.
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
Actually that was my honest opinion on these sorts of things. Drunk desparate women are a good way to get VD or rape charges against you. I have listened to many college chicks that have blacked out at parties and regretted things they remember doing and not a clue about half the shit they did. It is a very real problem with young women who get too drunk. Drinking impairs judgement and anyone who thinks they can rely on the judgement of the drunk horny 20 year old who's leg they were humping on the dance floor is messed up.Braddock wrote:
I wouldn't pay too much attention to Lotta_Drool... he says offensive, taboo things because he thinks it's funny and "out there". He does it all the time.White-Fusion wrote:
Fuck you tbh.Lotta_Drool wrote:
Women do stupid shit. Going out alone drinking in some club dressed like a tramp, hmmm, nothing can go wrong with this plan. Then some scum bag A. drugs and rapes her B. gets her hammered and takes her home, does her, she wakes up and freaks out yelling rape because she blacked out and isn't the horny tramp she was 3 hrs ago.
Not saying this is what happened to her or what she did, but guys who screw women drunk out of their mind deserve the rape conviction and women that put themselve in that position deserve to feel raped.
Stupid people, that is all this usually is. What ever happened to the concept of knowing someone more than 2 hours before you screw them.
And clothes do matter. And turning on some drunk guy does matter. And going back to some drunk horny guys place does matter. And saying, looking, and being all yes yes yes up until the weasle gets out of the bag does matter.
If you have a daughter you should teach her that instead of things like " clothes don't matter " because rape happens all the time, no matter how a person thinks the world should be.
If she was my friend I would be pissed off at her for not trying to put these guys behind bars. It's really her fault for the guys getting off because she didn't handle the situation.
She destroyed any evidence by taking baths without getting properly tested.
She didn't get a tox screen to see if she was drugged.
She didn't even attempt to contact the police when confronting the lady who gave her a ride.
Personally I think she a fucking idiot to go out alone drinking with strangers. Might as well taped a rape me sign on her back.
The guys will likely walk free just because she didn't want to deal with her "rape." Taking baths a forgetting about it doesn't put criminals behind bars.
Get a damn clue.
She destroyed any evidence by taking baths without getting properly tested.
She didn't get a tox screen to see if she was drugged.
She didn't even attempt to contact the police when confronting the lady who gave her a ride.
Personally I think she a fucking idiot to go out alone drinking with strangers. Might as well taped a rape me sign on her back.
The guys will likely walk free just because she didn't want to deal with her "rape." Taking baths a forgetting about it doesn't put criminals behind bars.
Get a damn clue.
Last edited by Icleos (2008-08-31 23:03:45)
I don't think a woman's biggest concern after being drugged and raped is covicting the criminal.Icleos wrote:
If she was my friend I would be pissed off at her for not trying to put these guys behind bars. It's really her fault for not being more responsible in going about handling her situation.
She destroyed any evidence by taking baths without getting properly tested.
She didn't get a tox screen to see if she was drugged.
She didn't even attempt to contact the police when confronting the lady who gave her a ride.
Personally I think she a fucking idiot to go out alone drinking with strangers. Might as well taped a rape me sign on her back.
The guys will likely walk free just because she didn't want to deal with her "rape." Taking baths a forgetting about it doesn't put criminals behind bars.
Get a damn clue.
And congradulations on the stupidest post of the week.
The stupid post thing is your personal opinion but what I said is the truth.Lotta_Drool wrote:
I don't think a woman's biggest concern after being drugged and raped is covicting the criminal.Icleos wrote:
If she was my friend I would be pissed off at her for not trying to put these guys behind bars. It's really her fault for not being more responsible in going about handling her situation.
She destroyed any evidence by taking baths without getting properly tested.
She didn't get a tox screen to see if she was drugged.
She didn't even attempt to contact the police when confronting the lady who gave her a ride.
Personally I think she a fucking idiot to go out alone drinking with strangers. Might as well taped a rape me sign on her back.
The guys will likely walk free just because she didn't want to deal with her "rape." Taking baths a forgetting about it doesn't put criminals behind bars.
Get a damn clue.
And congradulations on the stupidest post of the week.
Sure someone may be in shock and despair but a little logic and thinking ahead goes a long way.
When there is a crime it's your responsibility to report it on time. If you don't then the perpetrator may do it again. Would you want someone getting raped or killed just because you didn't try to convict the criminal in the first place?
Last edited by Icleos (2008-08-31 23:11:27)
yeah...I have to say...
She should have gotten a ride directly to the hospital to get a rape kit and so they could test her for ghb or the like. The hospital would likely have had a rape victim advocate of some sort to help her with the next steps.
I am glad the OP called the police...I am confused as to why the police would not have recommended that she go to the hospital though...
I was in college...I've blacked out a few times...and I have to say...I have been in questionable circumstances...and I wouldn't blame a girl for feeling like she was violated...but I also realize that when drinking(especially black-out drinking) we can make choices that we would never make sober...
However, waking up in the woods alone with clothes missing?...that would be a scary feeling...which is why I would have gone to the hospital.
I am sorry that your friend has to go through this (the whole thing). At this point, there doesn't seem to be anything she can do legally. She can only work on protecting herself against any future possibility of anything like this happening again.
Sounds like she is lucky to have a friend like you from here on out.
She should have gotten a ride directly to the hospital to get a rape kit and so they could test her for ghb or the like. The hospital would likely have had a rape victim advocate of some sort to help her with the next steps.
I am glad the OP called the police...I am confused as to why the police would not have recommended that she go to the hospital though...
I was in college...I've blacked out a few times...and I have to say...I have been in questionable circumstances...and I wouldn't blame a girl for feeling like she was violated...but I also realize that when drinking(especially black-out drinking) we can make choices that we would never make sober...
However, waking up in the woods alone with clothes missing?...that would be a scary feeling...which is why I would have gone to the hospital.
I am sorry that your friend has to go through this (the whole thing). At this point, there doesn't seem to be anything she can do legally. She can only work on protecting herself against any future possibility of anything like this happening again.
Sounds like she is lucky to have a friend like you from here on out.
...
This happened to one of my friends, she was raped at the age of 15.
#rekt
Unfortunately, evidence for a criminal prosecution has been destroyed.
There are two things you should do.
1. Support the victim! There was obviously some emotional trauma there, and she will probably (as in 99.95% of the time) need support. Judgement and analysis can wait a little while.
2. (So, it's been that "little while" and she has mostly gotten back to normal.) That time would be a good time to begin analysing what to do differently, so nothing like this can happen to her again...timing is delicate on this one, so be careful.
There are two things you should do.
1. Support the victim! There was obviously some emotional trauma there, and she will probably (as in 99.95% of the time) need support. Judgement and analysis can wait a little while.
2. (So, it's been that "little while" and she has mostly gotten back to normal.) That time would be a good time to begin analysing what to do differently, so nothing like this can happen to her again...timing is delicate on this one, so be careful.
She may have made poor choices, but that's not something you need to point out to her just yet...she likely realizes it herself at this point.tuckergustav wrote:
Sounds like she is lucky to have a friend like you
You've been a good friend to her. Keep doing that. She'll need it as she deals with this.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular