Braddock wrote:
Lotta_Drool wrote:
CameronPoe wrote:
Europe hasn't collapsed yet and doesn't look like doing so anytime in the next couple of centuries having been a welfare state for the past 63 years...
On the backs of the US tax payers. We provided security to Europe ever since WWII so that Europe could afford to spend money on socialism vs military.
Who will provide the US with 60 years of peace and security?
If you behave yourselves we might take care of ye.
God, I
hate this 'Europe is indebted to America after our heroic intervention into WWII' attitude.
What did America set about doing post-war?
You worked on reinstalling what are effectively fascist systems and keeping the Nazi collaborators and fascist industrialists in the same positions they were in during Nazi occupation. The US has a long history of undermining the democratic wishes of countries such as Italy, Germany and Greece after World War II... yes, after you heroically saved us from the malignant grinning face of 'ole Adolf and his fascist henchmen. Your main operations and CIA campaigns from 1945 right up to 1970 were based on destroying and keeping the
anti-fascist factions out of power- who had a HUGE democratic support from the people in Italy during the period when Allied forces 'liberated' the country. The anti-fascist movement in Italy had so much power and influence that they were basically holding most of Northern Italy from the fascist government forces through the tenacity and determination of a very small number of rebels. What did the US set about doing? Funneling your "tax paying security" dollars straight into keeping democracy out of the well-developed European states.
From 1948 until around 1960 you guys were so afraid of
real democracy emerging in Italy that you were actually poised to invade the country. The anti-fascist movement which gained so much prestige and influence during the resistance were in a serious chance of winning the 1948 Italian elections... which was basically equivalent to a rise in Communism to you Yanks. In 1960 declassified government documents show that you were even considering 'sponsoring' a military coup to stop this. As soon as Italy was 'liberated' you guys reinstated the fascist collaborators and industrialists claiming that they were removed for no good reason-- in other words you were ostensibly giving an excuse to keep the old networks of social and financial power in place so that it didn't give you guys a headache or anything to be afraid of. It's the same story in Germany- the reason that the Western 'architects' of post-war Europe decided to section Germany into East and West was because there was major fear of a very powerful German Communist movement developing. So, yet again you undermined the popular and common will of the people- you undermined democracy. And you tax-paying suckers were paying to finance it! Haha, brilliant, you hero's!
Where are my sources for this outrageous conjecture? George Kennan of the US State Department used the words "wall off" Germany for the above reasons provided. The first ever National Security Council Memorandum (NSCM#1) was focused on discussing Italy and what to do with the place in the event of a rise in a unified Communist movement- and yes the US Navy and invasion was greatly involved in these 'contigency plans'. The memorandum actually explicitly states that if the anti-fascists were to gain power in Italy through the election process, the US would declare a "State of Emergency" and put the Sixth Fleet in the Mediterrean on high-alert. George Kennan again, a great guy, wanted to invade Italy even
before the election took place- you know, just to keep it safe - but instead the threat of huge trade sanction's / embargos and the implications of starvation and CIA-sponsored terrorism/subversion worked nicely.
So, in short (because I know you guys hate anything over a concise paragraph: "tl;dr") cut this continual bullshit about you guys saving us in WWII and then bailing us all out of Europe in the years afterwards. America was led purely by self-interest; you guys kept your hand in the pot for the profits that could be gained over the division and breaking down of Nazi industries/territories, and because you didn't want to see any huge popular unified movements developing
via the democratic process in Italy, France or Germany. You kept the Nazi-collaborating industrialists in power, and hell you even covertly absorbed half the Nazi war-criminals into your own organisations and departments to use them for your own gain and research (Walter Rauff - inventor of wonderful gas chambers was sent off to Chile for US counterinsurgency means). I mean for fucks sake, drop the arrogance, your US taxpaying "security money" went into re-building the Mafia that was destroyed under fascist rule to allow the heroin trade to be rebuilt in France/Corsica. Google 'The French Connection'.
God American pride really gets up my nose sometimes.
Edit: Yes this was a huge digression but come on let's bury this tripe after 70 years of American arrogance and 'heroism' over WWII.
Last edited by Uzique (2008-08-14 07:52:43)
