Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6666|NT, like Mick Dundee

Okay, I got bored with the usual stuff I see in D&ST. So I'm posting a topic for debate.



Democracy affords every single member of the voting public with political power. Do they deserve that power?
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6773|PNW

This sounds about as close to the usual stuff as you can get. If you wanted to be unique, you could've made a thread about heart surgery.
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6666|NT, like Mick Dundee

Mmm. I'm going for abstract. Most of what's debated is tied down to specifics.

Btw my answer is no they don't. Nor do I.


Edit.

Unnamed, I searched and the closest two things I could find were both a year old.

Last edited by Flecco (2008-07-19 05:02:32)

Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
usmarine2
Banned
+233|5792|Dublin, Ohio
I think you should be tested first before you can register to vote.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6759|Argentina

usmarine2 wrote:

I think you should be tested first before you can register to vote.
Yup, if not GWB could be president.
usmarine2
Banned
+233|5792|Dublin, Ohio

sergeriver wrote:

usmarine2 wrote:

I think you should be tested first before you can register to vote.
Yup, if not Clinton would still be ripping people off in real estate.
fixed
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6666|NT, like Mick Dundee

usmarine2 wrote:

I think you should be tested first before you can register to vote.
That's where I was heading with this one. I believe that the right to vote should be earned with both a) a short term of national service in either the military or public services and b) that the potential voter should be tested for the intelligence to understand the decision they make when they vote/choose not to.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6759|Argentina

usmarine2 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

usmarine2 wrote:

I think you should be tested first before you can register to vote.
Yup, if not Clinton would still be ripping people off in real estate.
fixed
But of course...drinking in the morning is a very bad habit you know.
Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|6224|Brisneyland
Although I disagree with your national service bit, I totally agree that there should be some kind of test to see if voters have a clue. Maybe this would contain some questions about current events, or history, but basically to sift out the dopes that vote depending on who looks best , or if they feel like a change for no other reason than change.

I personally like the fact that people with political veiws opposed to me can vote, as long as they know what they are talking about. However I dont like the fact that uninformed dopes can vote.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6412|'Murka

While I understand the intent of the testing theory, it leaves the system open to abuses that remove the right to vote from others. The difference here is whether one views voting as a right or a privilege.

If you require a test, it is a privilege. But you ensure that only people who can pass your test (notice I didn't say "who understand the issues") can participate in their own governance.

If you see voting as a right, you run the risk of uninformed people participating in their own governance.

*researches a bit*

But then again, it doesn't look like requiring a test is a violation of the US Constitution.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
ZombieVampire!
The Gecko
+69|5828

Flecco wrote:

usmarine2 wrote:

I think you should be tested first before you can register to vote.
That's where I was heading with this one. I believe that the right to vote should be earned with both a) a short term of national service in either the military or public services and b) that the potential voter should be tested for the intelligence to understand the decision they make when they vote/choose not to.
We essentially have that already: if you have diminished mental capacity you can't vote.

Further, if I'm say, an anarchist, then I shouldn't be forced to help the government nor should the government be forcing me to (if only for purely pragmatic reason).

Besides which, no matter what you do your initial statement is true: everyone with a vote has political power.  The issue is whether everyone should automatically get a vote.
chittydog
less busy
+586|6836|Kubra, Damn it!

usmarine2 wrote:

I think you should be tested first before you can register to vote.
They already had that. The test had three parts:

1. Do you have a penis?

2. Are you white?

3. Do you own land?
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6154|what

Well, put it this way, would you rather we be ruled by a King, the Shogun, Emperor?

Because as soon as you do, there's a peasant class.

If there's a peasant class, the people as a whole do not aspire to be more than they are.

The Industrial Revolution (and even the Renaissance although much unlike a modern democracy), has the political freedoms rarely afforded both to academics and artists and they both flourished.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6666|NT, like Mick Dundee

chittydog wrote:

usmarine2 wrote:

I think you should be tested first before you can register to vote.
They already had that. The test had three parts:

1. Do you have a penis?

2. Are you white?

3. Do you own land?
I was thinking more an intellectual type test. Because a lot of people here in Australia at the last election voted for Rudd/Labour just to get some change. Although it does raise the question of who would set the test.

Even without the clueless votes they would have won though. Just not by such a landslide.

What really got me thinking about this though was a set of books my local library has called the Great Books of the Western World. I've just started reading the intro book which discusses in great detail modern democracy and the political power of the voter. Mentions that in a democracy every single member of the voting public has a responsibility to be educated enough to make an informed decision while voting. Most of my friends just donkey voted/voted for Rudd because of the great media coverage he got. None of them had a clue about foreign policy, the economy, the health/education system and the rest of it...

ZombieVampire! wrote:

Besides which, no matter what you do your initial statement is true: everyone with a vote has political power.  The issue is whether everyone should automatically get a vote.
That's what I wanted to spark a debate on... Should everybody get an automatic vote?
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
chittydog
less busy
+586|6836|Kubra, Damn it!

Sounds interesting, I may go see if my library has them as well. The part about having a responsibility to be educated about the issues is greatness. I wish more people felt that way.

I know what you mean about the donkey voting, I think most of the people here vote based on how they "feel" about the candidates/parties without knowing much about what's going on.
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|6663|USA

usmarine2 wrote:

I think you should be tested first before you can register to vote.
That would be unconstitutional. Just for shits and grins, what would the test consist of?
usmarine2
Banned
+233|5792|Dublin, Ohio

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

usmarine2 wrote:

I think you should be tested first before you can register to vote.
That would be unconstitutional. Just for shits and grins, what would the test consist of?
I dont fucking know.  I am not a teacher.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6556
I think anyone seeking election should mandatorily have to take a specially designed course on economics and political theory and sit a test before being allowed to run.
ZombieVampire!
The Gecko
+69|5828

Flecco wrote:

I was thinking more an intellectual type test. Because a lot of people here in Australia at the last election voted for Rudd/Labour just to get some change.
Which is their right.  Just the same as I have a right to view both parties as ill-suited, and the majority of the voting public as hypocrites.

Flecco wrote:

Even without the clueless votes they would have won though. Just not by such a landslide.
Without the "clueless" voters Howard may not have won so many elections.

Flecco wrote:

Most of my friends just donkey voted/voted for Rudd because of the great media coverage he got. None of them had a clue about foreign policy, the economy, the health/education system and the rest of it...
Which is why voting shouldn't be compulsory.

Flecco wrote:

ZombieVampire! wrote:

Besides which, no matter what you do your initial statement is true: everyone with a vote has political power.  The issue is whether everyone should automatically get a vote.
That's what I wanted to spark a debate on... Should everybody get an automatic vote?
I know, that's why I added it as an afterthought.

What about the rest of what I said?

usmarine2 wrote:

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

usmarine2 wrote:

I think you should be tested first before you can register to vote.
That would be unconstitutional. Just for shits and grins, what would the test consist of?
I dont fucking know.  I am not a teacher.
So...........the brothers Grimm fairy tales?  Pop culture?
?

Last edited by ZombieVampire! (2008-07-19 08:13:29)

Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|6663|USA

usmarine2 wrote:

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

usmarine2 wrote:

I think you should be tested first before you can register to vote.
That would be unconstitutional. Just for shits and grins, what would the test consist of?
I don't fucking know.  I am not a teacher.
So we need to find a teacher that you deem smart enough to vote, to make a test? Then administer the test. The failures can be given an id card that they are a failure and must never be allowed to register to vote or retake the test. We'll call them liberals regardless of political affiliation. We can tattoo a red F on their chest or maybe a red L.

While we are at it we can pass a law that if you can't pass the voter registration test, you also relinquish your right to carry a firearm. Because if too may people fail we don't want riots or anything.  Especially not from the dumb people.

Better yet, let's just make the failures slaves. Go down that road again. That would be sweet. Or we can inject them with a deadly virus, or cut their penis and vagina's off to stop procreation of said morons.
usmarine2
Banned
+233|5792|Dublin, Ohio
who makes up the sat? 

since you cannot talk without going to extremes, i am done with you.
ZombieVampire!
The Gecko
+69|5828
Except that the SAT doesn't determine rights, and is an academic test: that is, the criteria is defined as academic merit.


The question we're ultimately asking is what criteria define your ability to vote?
usmarine2
Banned
+233|5792|Dublin, Ohio

ZombieVampire! wrote:

Except that the SAT doesn't determine rights, and is an academic test: that is, the criteria is defined as academic merit.


The question we're ultimately asking is what criteria define your ability to vote?
Thats for someone smarter than I to decide.  I just think it should happen.  Thats all I said.  I am not here to write a thesis.
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|6663|USA

usmarine2 wrote:

ZombieVampire! wrote:

Except that the SAT doesn't determine rights, and is an academic test: that is, the criteria is defined as academic merit.


The question we're ultimately asking is what criteria define your ability to vote?
Thats for someone smarter than I to decide.  I just think it should happen.  Thats all I said.  I am not here to write a thesis.
What if YOU don't pass?
ZombieVampire!
The Gecko
+69|5828
Why isn't it for someone smarter than you to decide whether there should be a test at all?

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