I'll clarify. You can survive LONGER without food compared to water. Better?
Poll
Is water a human right or a commodity?
| Human right -- everyone is entitled to it | 83% | 83% - 35 | ||||
| Commodity -- must be bought and sold | 9% | 9% - 4 | ||||
| Other | 7% | 7% - 3 | ||||
| Total: 42 | ||||||
Much .Stingray24 wrote:
I'll clarify. You can survive LONGER without food compared to water. Better?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Pff. Bear Grylls taught me how to collect the water out of elephant dung.Kmarion wrote:
Survivorman taught me how to purify my piss.. If I could turn it into beer I'd have it made.
Now THAT was a nasty episode.
Bear is a hack. I'll take the Canadian any day over Bear .Poseidon wrote:
Pff. Bear Grylls taught me how to collect the water out of elephant dung.Kmarion wrote:
Survivorman taught me how to purify my piss.. If I could turn it into beer I'd have it made.
Now THAT was a nasty episode.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
I think we have a winnerPoseidon wrote:
Pff. Bear Grylls taught me how to collect the water out of elephant dung.Kmarion wrote:
Survivorman taught me how to purify my piss.. If I could turn it into beer I'd have it made.
Now THAT was a nasty episode.
Makes ya wonder who looked at bear shit and decided that they could porbably drink that.lowing wrote:
I think we have a winnerPoseidon wrote:
Pff. Bear Grylls taught me how to collect the water out of elephant dung.Kmarion wrote:
Survivorman taught me how to purify my piss.. If I could turn it into beer I'd have it made.
Now THAT was a nasty episode.
Psh. Did you see that episode?Kmarion wrote:
Bear is a hack. I'll take the Canadian any day over Bear .Poseidon wrote:
Pff. Bear Grylls taught me how to collect the water out of elephant dung.Kmarion wrote:
Survivorman taught me how to purify my piss.. If I could turn it into beer I'd have it made.
Now THAT was a nasty episode.
And speaking of drinking urine, he did that too:
Bear Grylls > Tim Tebow > Chuck Norris.lowing wrote:
I think we have a winnerPoseidon wrote:
Pff. Bear Grylls taught me how to collect the water out of elephant dung.Kmarion wrote:
Survivorman taught me how to purify my piss.. If I could turn it into beer I'd have it made.
Now THAT was a nasty episode.
Last edited by Poseidon (2008-07-12 22:53:30)
Aside from the obvious getting busted and hey I'm filming this show about survival but I have a full camera crew with me difference .. http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2007/1 … an_vs_wildPoseidon wrote:
Psh. Did you see that episode?Kmarion wrote:
Bear is a hack. I'll take the Canadian any day over Bear .Poseidon wrote:
Pff. Bear Grylls taught me how to collect the water out of elephant dung.
Now THAT was a nasty episode.
And speaking of drinking urine, he did that too:Bear Grylls > Tim Tebow > Chuck Norris.lowing wrote:
I think we have a winnerPoseidon wrote:
Pff. Bear Grylls taught me how to collect the water out of elephant dung.
Now THAT was a nasty episode.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
I learned that from Mr. Wizard when I was like 6.Kmarion wrote:
You pee in a hole and cover it with plastic at an angle (in the sun). The water condensates and rolls down into a collection cup. .. er something like that. It works with sea water also.lowing wrote:
I gotta ask.............How DO ya purify piss?Kmarion wrote:
Survivorman taught me how to purify my piss.. If I could turn it into beer I'd have it made.
Kmarion wrote:
Aside from the obvious getting busted and hey I'm filming this show about survival but I have a full camera crew with me difference .. http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2007/1 … an_vs_wildPoseidon wrote:
Psh. Did you see that episode?Kmarion wrote:
Bear is a hack. I'll take the Canadian any day over Bear .Poseidon wrote:
Pff. Bear Grylls taught me how to collect the water out of elephant dung.
Now THAT was a nasty episode.
And speaking of drinking urine, he did that too:Bear Grylls > Tim Tebow > Chuck Norris.lowing wrote:
I think we have a winner
Nah, I knew that he had some controversy going on, but he's not there to try and act badass, he's there to give survival tips...all that's necessary imo.
He's entertaining I guess. A little melodramatic sometimes.Poseidon wrote:
Kmarion wrote:
Aside from the obvious getting busted and hey I'm filming this show about survival but I have a full camera crew with me difference .. http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2007/1 … an_vs_wildPoseidon wrote:
Psh. Did you see that episode?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R25Eflr0oJ8[/yobe]
And speaking of drinking urine, he did that too:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEIYNvwXD0Q&feature=related[/yobe]
Bear Grylls > Tim Tebow > Chuck Norris.
Nah, I knew that he had some controversy going on, but he's not there to try and act badass, he's there to give survival tips...all that's necessary imo.
He was SAS.. so he is more badass than I'll ever be .
Xbone Stormsurgezz
To be honest lowing you make perfect sense most of the time, just when you generalize and crap is when you piss me offlowing wrote:
See, I can be human when I wanna be.Spearhead wrote:
Thank you lowinglowing wrote:
Noway, there is no such thing as a commodity that can withhold the basics to maintain life.
But its good to see you pounding someone else on this topic.. makes me all fuzzy inside. lol
Water for basic requirements etc is a right.
Beyond that its fair to pay.
Anyone noticed 'Evian' backwards = 'Naive' ?
Beyond that its fair to pay.
Anyone noticed 'Evian' backwards = 'Naive' ?
Fuck Israel
Wellllllllllllll, I was thirsty at the time, and caught in a weak moment.Spearhead wrote:
To be honest lowing you make perfect sense most of the time, just when you generalize and crap is when you piss me offlowing wrote:
See, I can be human when I wanna be.Spearhead wrote:
Thank you lowing
But its good to see you pounding someone else on this topic.. makes me all fuzzy inside. lol
um...?Stingray24 wrote:
You can survive without food, but not without water. Human right.
Jim Gaffigan's joke on bottled water is awesome:
"Some French guy's over there and he's like, "How dumb do I think the Americans are? I bet you we can sell those idiots water." "Look Pierre, the Americans are pretty dumb but they're not gonna buy water." "Oh, yes they are! Let's just tell the Americans the water's from France."
But seriously, that clip with Penn and Teller pretty much sums it all up. However, one thing they skipped over completely is the pollutants it sends into the air to make bottled water and to ship it. Everybody always skips this part. People get so defensive if you give them a hard time about bottled water saying it's clean, well that "pollutants" that come from the tap don't just mysteriously disappear.
Also, I read an article on Digg, I can't seem to find it now but there was an article that said that for every gallon of bottled water, they start with 3 gallons. Meanwhile people in Africa can't get clean water and the bottled water companies are literally making 2/3s of the very little amount of drinkable water water on the earth disappear just trying to "purify" it.
"Some French guy's over there and he's like, "How dumb do I think the Americans are? I bet you we can sell those idiots water." "Look Pierre, the Americans are pretty dumb but they're not gonna buy water." "Oh, yes they are! Let's just tell the Americans the water's from France."
But seriously, that clip with Penn and Teller pretty much sums it all up. However, one thing they skipped over completely is the pollutants it sends into the air to make bottled water and to ship it. Everybody always skips this part. People get so defensive if you give them a hard time about bottled water saying it's clean, well that "pollutants" that come from the tap don't just mysteriously disappear.
Also, I read an article on Digg, I can't seem to find it now but there was an article that said that for every gallon of bottled water, they start with 3 gallons. Meanwhile people in Africa can't get clean water and the bottled water companies are literally making 2/3s of the very little amount of drinkable water water on the earth disappear just trying to "purify" it.
Human right -- everyone is entitled to it!
Neither.... It's not a human right, but it's also not a commodity.
If you collect rain water or dig a well, you don't have to pay anyone for it, as long as you're not employing anyone else's labor to do it.
When people pay for water, they're usually paying for the treatment and distribution of water, not the actual water itself. You usually get charged for the amount of water you use, but again, that figures into treatment and distribution costs.
Yet, I don't believe people are entitled to water either. You're not entitled to receiving water unless you're collecting it yourself or you're paying for it through either government or private means.
If you collect rain water or dig a well, you don't have to pay anyone for it, as long as you're not employing anyone else's labor to do it.
When people pay for water, they're usually paying for the treatment and distribution of water, not the actual water itself. You usually get charged for the amount of water you use, but again, that figures into treatment and distribution costs.
Yet, I don't believe people are entitled to water either. You're not entitled to receiving water unless you're collecting it yourself or you're paying for it through either government or private means.
Ray Mears >>> Bear GryllsPoseidon wrote:
Bear Grylls > Tim Tebow > Chuck Norris.
You do in the UK. You have to pay the water board and usually get a meter fitted to see how much water you're getting.Turquoise wrote:
Neither.... It's not a human right, but it's also not a commodity.
If you collect rain water or dig a well, you don't have to pay anyone for it, as long as you're not employing anyone else's labor to do it.
By the same logic as you're using, electricity isn't a commodity because you could just have a wind turbine on your house and get your electricity yourself.
You're right about electricity as well.Bertster7 wrote:
You do in the UK. You have to pay the water board and usually get a meter fitted to see how much water you're getting.Turquoise wrote:
Neither.... It's not a human right, but it's also not a commodity.
If you collect rain water or dig a well, you don't have to pay anyone for it, as long as you're not employing anyone else's labor to do it.
By the same logic as you're using, electricity isn't a commodity because you could just have a wind turbine on your house and get your electricity yourself.
I suppose there might be certain places in the U.S. where citizens have to follow similar water laws as in the U.K., but this is usually a state or local thing, not a federal thing. I guess, under those circumstances, you could say water is a commodity.
Psychologically isn't that far removed from financially. In a sci-fi scenario, for instance, if we overpriced and overtaxed air and water (not just the commodities, but the maintenance and recycling programs) shipped to colonies beyond Earth (the moon, for instance), and if they had any leverage (farming, for instance), we'd have a revolution on our hands.imortal wrote:
I disagree. You do not have rights to objects. You have rights to concepts. Water is a commodity; for that matter, air is a commodity, it is just too abundant to have any significant value, and no one can figure out how to restrict access to it. And please, no cracks about 'take away your air and see how valuable it is then!' I was thinking financially, not physiologically.
But for now, I can't think of any good reason to restrict people from selling water, if others are willing to buy it. The only real ethics issue is whether or not certain 'kinds' of water are actually as better for you (as compared to tap) as advertised.
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2008-07-13 11:50:26)
I think the answer lies somewhere in between. I think imortal's comment about concepts is closer to what a "human right" is. However, clean water is clearly a necessity for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness--without it, you are a dried up corpse.
So...it's a human necessity, not a commodity, not a human right.
So...it's a human necessity, not a commodity, not a human right.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
There is a large difference between "can be" and "will be." Water is a resource. If it is a right, then it can not be denied to anyone. If I dig my own well (at my own expense) to have all the water I need, then I consider that my water. If water is a right, then absolutely anyone can come on my property and demand access to my water, because it is a right. Or, if there is a drought, and other people are suffering a shortage, would the government come in and seize my well, since it is a right for everyone to have water?lowing wrote:
Noway, there is no such thing as a commodity that can withhold the basics to maintain life. Food can be grown for free, we pay for the convenience to buy it grown or cut up or processed etc.........The only thing that should be paid for with water is the process of purifying it and making it potable. Or, you can go dig a well and have all the free water you choose.imortal wrote:
I disagree. You do not have rights to objects. You have rights to concepts. Water is a commodity; for that matter, air is a commodity, it is just too abundant to have any significant value, and no one can figure out how to restrict access to it. And please, no cracks about 'take away your air and see how valuable it is then!' I was thinking financially, not physiologically.
If water is a right, what else should be a right?
Food? Most of you have said yes.
Shelter? Do we not need protection from the elements?
Clothing? Do you not need protection from the elements away from home?
Information? This is the information age, should internet access be a global right?
How about transportation? Is mass transit sufficient, or does every family or person deseve a car?
Land? Does everyone deserve to have a bit of land to try to grow their own food or build their own house?
Ok, now the big question is, who provides for and assures that everyones' rights to all this stuff is maintained? There is only one entity capable. The Government. So, now the government is responsible for providing all of these 'rights' to everyone. And, of course, everyone has an equal right to the same quality of... let us call them physical rights. In order to prevent the appearance of favoratism, there has to be a standard provided to everyone; everyone has to get an equal share.
Does anyone see where this is going? It is called, quite literally, Communism. I am not using the word in the way the right winged republicans tossed it about during the Cold War. If you start deciding that everyone has an equal and unalienable right to stuff, then someone has to ensure that everyone has their stuff, and no one is taking it away.
I see what you are saying, and a good post, but with your "well on your property scenerio", yeah if the situation were bad enough and you had the onlu source of water, the govt. WOULD take it from you. You would have NO RIGHT t okeep the only water source to yourself.imortal wrote:
There is a large difference between "can be" and "will be." Water is a resource. If it is a right, then it can not be denied to anyone. If I dig my own well (at my own expense) to have all the water I need, then I consider that my water. If water is a right, then absolutely anyone can come on my property and demand access to my water, because it is a right. Or, if there is a drought, and other people are suffering a shortage, would the government come in and seize my well, since it is a right for everyone to have water?lowing wrote:
Noway, there is no such thing as a commodity that can withhold the basics to maintain life. Food can be grown for free, we pay for the convenience to buy it grown or cut up or processed etc.........The only thing that should be paid for with water is the process of purifying it and making it potable. Or, you can go dig a well and have all the free water you choose.imortal wrote:
I disagree. You do not have rights to objects. You have rights to concepts. Water is a commodity; for that matter, air is a commodity, it is just too abundant to have any significant value, and no one can figure out how to restrict access to it. And please, no cracks about 'take away your air and see how valuable it is then!' I was thinking financially, not physiologically.
If water is a right, what else should be a right?
Food? Most of you have said yes.
Shelter? Do we not need protection from the elements?
Clothing? Do you not need protection from the elements away from home?
Information? This is the information age, should internet access be a global right?
How about transportation? Is mass transit sufficient, or does every family or person deseve a car?
Land? Does everyone deserve to have a bit of land to try to grow their own food or build their own house?
Ok, now the big question is, who provides for and assures that everyones' rights to all this stuff is maintained? There is only one entity capable. The Government. So, now the government is responsible for providing all of these 'rights' to everyone. And, of course, everyone has an equal right to the same quality of... let us call them physical rights. In order to prevent the appearance of favoratism, there has to be a standard provided to everyone; everyone has to get an equal share.
Does anyone see where this is going? It is called, quite literally, Communism. I am not using the word in the way the right winged republicans tossed it about during the Cold War. If you start deciding that everyone has an equal and unalienable right to stuff, then someone has to ensure that everyone has their stuff, and no one is taking it away.
Shelter is already provided by the govt. Nope it isn't a 4 bedroom house, it is a building shared with other people that need shelter.
Clothes, already provided by various organizations, is it a double breasted suit? M|Nope, it is clothes.
Transportation is a luxury
Information is a luxury
Land is a luxury
Compared to the basics to sustain life these are all luxuries.