BF2S Forums If your paycheck has anything to do with tax dollars...

usmarine2 wrote:

europe is russias bitch tbh

And we are the Neoconeses.

Last edited by ATG (2008-07-11 17:05:08)

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Reminds me of a kid I went to high school with who would constantly talk about how his dad paid all this tax money and how unfair it was.  His dad worked for TRW

TRW was huge.  I think everyone knew someone who's dad worked there.  talk about a blast from the past.

I agree that we should jack there oil, we brought them freedom and freedom isnt free

ATG wrote:

...you have little to no credibility on commentary when it comes to the United States economy, the housing crisis or the mental Recession.

Halliburton stock.

Sears Company stock.

I didn't link to any Fannie May or freddie Mack stock indexes, well, because that would be hyperbole.



But if you come on here and blather on about personal responsibilty and your income is in anyway related to the current wars you insulting millions of Americans and peoples of other places that are reeling from the economic strain brought on by this fiasco.

The Army alone estimates that it currently has 60,000 contractor employees supporting ongoing U.S. military operations in Southwest Asia; by contrast, only 9,200 contractor personnel supported all four branches combined during the 1991 Gulf War.

What we have is a president and congress funding the use of mercenaries, which is against the law. http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/mercenaries.htm

That means if you are a Blackwater employee or you work for a company that services or modifies equipment in theatre you are no more than a mercenary. I'm sorry to whom it may concern. But it's reality.


At the very least, smug and pompus critique of what the average Joe should be doing or how he should save his ass now or what he shouldn't have done should ring false and should be saved for the locker room, with the other worker bees doing Gods work at tax payer expense.


The Iraq war, the powers that George Bush have seized and the financial rape about all of it are sickening.


Who is the number two exporter of oil in the world? Russia.

Why in the hell do you think they invaded Grozny? Same as Hitler; that's where the oil is.

Let us learn from the commie bastards. If we are going to invade a goddamned country make fucking sure that sorry pieces of shit paying the bill get something out of it.

Sieze their oil fields or gtfo.

Well gee whiz, I can't help but think this is directed towards me ATG, so let me respond:

Does my company do govt. and civilian contracts?............ yup.

Is the project that I am assigned a military contract?........ yup

Could the contract I am assigned be a civilian contract?.......... yup

SHOULD I quit my job because it is a govt. contract?............ Nope

Does the work I do actually save American lives?................. Yup and it has been proven to do so.

Am I proud of that fact?................ You bet your ass, and there really isn't much insulting you are gunna do that is gunna make me feel any different from it.

Is the skill I possess in demand........yup it is ( I will not apologize for being marketable )

Does what I do pay my bills and feed my family and PAY MY MORTGAGE like a responsible citizen?............ yup it does


I kinda thought the housing crisis was brought on by people who bought homes they couldn't afford in the first place, and their problems multiplied once their ARMS were up.

Don't worry though I hear congress just passed the mortgage bailout bill. But I wonder how responsible Americans who pay their bills get to benefit from it. Oops I am betting they do not. Now, it appears I gotta pay their bills as well as mine. Which makes it harder on me.

I guess however, that is the way socialism works huh?  The irresponsible shares in the wealth of the achievers and the achievers shares in the despair of the irresponsible.

I am sorry for who this applies to, but it is reality.

Last edited by lowing (2008-07-11 23:31:08)

Anyone who thinks our involvement in the ME is based around supporting Halliburton stock is just not looking deep enough. (For the record hundreds of millions of dollars worth of construction contracts were also rewarded to Halliburton for rebuilding efforts in Kosovo and Haiti under Clinton.) Plywood sales go through the roof everytime a hurricane approaches. It doesn't mean that plywood causes hurricanes. That is rather shallow reasoning imo. It was Carter who made it official state policy to intervene with force in the ME. This shows you the current worth of nobel peace prizes.

The Carter Doctrine was a policy proclaimed by President of the United States Jimmy Carter in his State of the Union Address on 23 January 1980, which stated that the United States would use military force if necessary to defend its national interests in the Persian Gulf region. The doctrine was a response to the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviet Union, and was intended to deter the Soviet Union—the Cold War adversary of the United States—from seeking hegemony in the Persian Gulf. After stating that Soviet troops in Afghanistan posed "a grave threat to the free movement of Middle East oil,"

It was Clinton who made it official state policy to remove Saddam.
Every US president since has stuck their nose in the region. Combine these two standing policies with the attacks and you can see how we got to where we are today. This is all the more reason previous administrations should have seen the need for a better energy solution.

I am not excusing the failings of GWB neither. His lack of foresight and unwillingness to listen to certain areas of the intelligence community was a unforgivable (Clinton hurt these agencies when he gutted them also). Bush has been playing the role of sugar daddy to Israel and sub-Saharan Africa. He has shattered previous aid standards to these countries. With so many struggling now it's not exactly serving the best interest of American citizens (debt much?). He ran on the platform of "compassionate conservative", what a joke. His refusal to address the border issue after 8 years of predictable exploit is also an example of where his loyalties lie. I could go on and on about any one of these presidents/parties. My point is to consider everything. There has been a serious deficiency in leadership for decades. It hasn't always been this way. Just the majority of my lifetime.

What are Americans left with? A GWB clone and an inexperienced junior senator from Illinois.

Kmarion wrote:

Anyone who thinks our involvement in the ME is based around supporting Halliburton stock is just not looking deep enough. (For the record hundreds of millions of dollars worth of construction contracts were also rewarded to Halliburton for rebuilding efforts in Kosovo and Haiti under Clinton.) Plywood sales go through the roof everytime a hurricane approaches. It doesn't mean that plywood causes hurricanes. That is rather shallow reasoning imo. It was Carter who made it official state policy to intervene with force in the ME. This shows you the current worth of nobel peace prizes.

The Carter Doctrine was a policy proclaimed by President of the United States Jimmy Carter in his State of the Union Address on 23 January 1980, which stated that the United States would use military force if necessary to defend its national interests in the Persian Gulf region. The doctrine was a response to the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviet Union, and was intended to deter the Soviet Union—the Cold War adversary of the United States—from seeking hegemony in the Persian Gulf. After stating that Soviet troops in Afghanistan posed "a grave threat to the free movement of Middle East oil,"

It was Clinton who made it official state policy to remove Saddam.
Every US president since has stuck their nose in the region. Combine these two standing policies with the attacks and you can see how we got to where we are today. This is all the more reason previous administrations should have seen the need for a better energy solution.

I am not excusing the failings of GWB neither. His lack of foresight and unwillingness to listen to certain areas of the intelligence community was a unforgivable (Clinton hurt these agencies when he gutted them also). Bush has been playing the role of sugar daddy to Israel and sub-Saharan Africa. He has shattered previous aid standards to these countries. With so many struggling now it's not exactly serving the best interest of American citizens (debt much?). He ran on the platform of "compassionate conservative", what a joke. His refusal to address the border issue after 8 years of predictable exploit is also an example of where his loyalties lie. I could go on and on about any one of these presidents/parties. My point is to consider everything. There has been a serious deficiency in leadership for decades. It hasn't always been this way. Just the majority of my lifetime.

What are Americans left with? A GWB clone and an inexperienced junior senator from Illinois.

Very coherent post.  GJ.

ATG wrote:

You want to go to another country and play with military toys? Join the fucking military.

Don't sit across the world sponging on tax payers dollars and tell me how things are here, you don't know, you are one of a million people who are being parasitical when it comes to me tax dollars.

ATG has a point there Lowing.  You don't like people relying on the government, yet you are one of them.

sergeriver wrote:

ATG wrote:

You want to go to another country and play with military toys? Join the fucking military.

Don't sit across the world sponging on tax payers dollars and tell me how things are here, you don't know, you are one of a million people who are being parasitical when it comes to me tax dollars.

ATG has a point there Lowing.  You don't like people relying on the government, yet you are one of them.

He's not relying on the government. It's just coincidental that his current contract is funded by the government. It could just as easily have been funded by a civilian company.

And to bitch about the people who are working for various companies over in the ME right now (to include Halliburton) is just sour grapes. Many of those people are earning more (and risking more) than they would ever earn otherwise. Not Blackwater, but the TCNs who are doing the services stuff over there. Is the cost of it excessive? Absolutely. But as KM pointed out, this isn't Halliburton's first rodeo.

Kmarion wrote:

Anyone who thinks our involvement in the ME is based around supporting Halliburton stock is just not looking deep enough. (For the record hundreds of millions of dollars worth of construction contracts were also rewarded to Halliburton for rebuilding efforts in Kosovo and Haiti under Clinton.) Plywood sales go through the roof everytime a hurricane approaches. It doesn't mean that plywood causes hurricanes. That is rather shallow reasoning imo. It was Carter who made it official state policy to intervene with force in the ME. This shows you the current worth of nobel peace prizes.

The Carter Doctrine was a policy proclaimed by President of the United States Jimmy Carter in his State of the Union Address on 23 January 1980, which stated that the United States would use military force if necessary to defend its national interests in the Persian Gulf region. The doctrine was a response to the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviet Union, and was intended to deter the Soviet Union—the Cold War adversary of the United States—from seeking hegemony in the Persian Gulf. After stating that Soviet troops in Afghanistan posed "a grave threat to the free movement of Middle East oil,"

It was Clinton who made it official state policy to remove Saddam.
Every US president since has stuck their nose in the region. Combine these two standing policies with the attacks and you can see how we got to where we are today. This is all the more reason previous administrations should have seen the need for a better energy solution.

I am not excusing the failings of GWB neither. His lack of foresight and unwillingness to listen to certain areas of the intelligence community was a unforgivable (Clinton hurt these agencies when he gutted them also). Bush has been playing the role of sugar daddy to Israel and sub-Saharan Africa. He has shattered previous aid standards to these countries. With so many struggling now it's not exactly serving the best interest of American citizens (debt much?). He ran on the platform of "compassionate conservative", what a joke. His refusal to address the border issue after 8 years of predictable exploit is also an example of where his loyalties lie. I could go on and on about any one of these presidents/parties. My point is to consider everything. There has been a serious deficiency in leadership for decades. It hasn't always been this way. Just the majority of my lifetime.

What are Americans left with? A GWB clone and an inexperienced junior senator from Illinois.

Eisenhower sent troops into lebanon in 1958

FEOS wrote:

How would contract logistics support be "mercenary"?

Mercenaries are independent combat troops hired in lieu of soldiers. Not security guards, but actual combat troops. You're overreacting just a tad with your descriptions there.

Yeah, I have stability in my income...but no stability in my home life. It's a tradeoff.

The military has tried to hide the true cost of the war and the man power requirements by the use of these so called private contractors.

Immoral, to pay contractors elevated wages over what U.S. troops get.
Damaging, to do so. Why would any soldier not abandon the military to work for contractors?
Illegal, to hire mercenaries. Blackwater at the least has damaged our reputation internationally.
Clueless, to sit there on the tax payer dime, and tell us private citizens how we should live.
Insulting, tbh.

Every goddamnned part of it.

ATG wrote:

FEOS wrote:

How would contract logistics support be "mercenary"?

Mercenaries are independent combat troops hired in lieu of soldiers. Not security guards, but actual combat troops. You're overreacting just a tad with your descriptions there.

Yeah, I have stability in my income...but no stability in my home life. It's a tradeoff.

The military has tried to hide the true cost of the war and the man power requirements by the use of these so called private contractors.

Immoral, to pay contractors elevated wages over what U.S. troops get.
Damaging, to do so. Why would any soldier not abandon the military to work for contractors?
Illegal, to hire mercenaries. Blackwater at the least has damaged our reputation internationally.
Clueless, to sit there on the tax payer dime, and tell us private citizens how we should live.
Insulting, tbh.

Every goddamnned part of it.

All of your points are valid...except for calling the contractors mercenaries. Are they executing traditional military operations? No. They are providing the same services there that companies provide elsewhere in the world for military and other government agencies: chow hall, laundry, construction, security details for non-military facilities/people, logistics movement, etc.

And lowing isn't on the "tax payer dime" (gotta make sure I get it exact or Bubs will whine)...he's sitting there on his employer's dime. One of the sources of income for his employer is government contracts.

Do you not agree that a significant exacerbatory factor in the current crisis is Americans living beyond their means, with no margin for situations like this? Not enough savings, excessive debt accumulation, gambling with adjustable mortgage rates (which they all knew could go up)...those aren't the fault of the government, Iraq, the military, or anything else. Those are all personal decisions made by many Americans, and now they're paying for it.

sergeriver wrote:

ATG wrote:

You want to go to another country and play with military toys? Join the fucking military.

Don't sit across the world sponging on tax payers dollars and tell me how things are here, you don't know, you are one of a million people who are being parasitical when it comes to me tax dollars.

ATG has a point there Lowing.  You don't like people relying on the government, yet you are one of them.

Not hardly Serge. I do not work for the govt.

I guess when I was back at the airline you could/ would say the same thing since I fell under FAA regulations. It is a weak attempt to come up with an excuse for my successes and his apparent lack of them.

I guess by your definition, a mailman is a govt. leech as well, while the welfare recipient is not, since he isn't WORKING for the govt.

Gimme break with this line of bullshit.