Think before you flame (question about religions)

2008-07-14 05:55:32

#101

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6105|eXtreme to the maX

I believe that religion does play the same role in the west as it does in the ME for example. The difference is that in the former there is greater discreetness and therefore accountability is a much more complicated process.

Plus we are labouring under the mistaken illusion that Christianity is a moderate and sensible religion, while the moslems are all fanatics who want to drink our blood.

How would it be if some of the central tenets of Islam were:-
Mohammed will return to earth, providing Europe is first cleansed of infidels.
Before this happens Washington must be burnt to a cinder and the US must be in a state of civil war.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-07-14 05:56:33)

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2008-07-14 16:53:06

#102

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6410|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Hitler actually did kill people. He directly authorized the mass murder of millions of Jews. Not warfare...extermination.
Bush authorised a crusade intended to deprive people of their lives, their land and their natural resources on the basis of a load of gobbledegook mumbo jumbo - so I'm comfortable with the analogy being apt.

That's not at all what was intended with the invasion of Iraq. But go ahead and ignore facts so you can live in your world of hate-filled hyperbole.

Dilbert_X wrote:
FEOS wrote:
any world leader who ever ordered military troops into combat ever in the history of the world is like Hitler and a killer
Your analogy fails. The Iraq invasion was a war of aggression. The majority of world leaders who have done so have done it on the basis of self defense or defense of allies.
Bush is the aggressor here.

1. Wasn't talking to you. It was a direct response to Braddock's post.
2. Using Braddock's logic, the analogy was spot-fucking-on. Aggressor or not, it's irrelevant under Braddock's definition. Deal with it.
3. No u.

Dilbert_X wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Ultimately, every war is a war of choice.
You fail again - many wars are fought in self defense.
You're probably confused as most of the wars fought by the US have been wars of self-interest.

But one must choose to defend oneself, and it is normally in one's self-interest to do so. Hence, all wars are wars of choice, and all wars are wars of self-interest.

Ain't logic a bitch?

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2008-07-14 16:54:21

#103

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6410|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
oug wrote:
I believe that religion does play the same role in the west as it does in the ME for example. The difference is that in the former there is greater discreetness and therefore accountability is a much more complicated process.
Plus we are labouring under the mistaken illusion that Christianity is a moderate and sensible religion, while the moslems are all fanatics who want to drink our blood.

And just who is "labouring" under this "mistaken illusion"? More hyperbole.

Dilbert_X wrote:
How would it be if some of the central tenets of Islam were:-
Mohammed will return to earth, providing Europe is first cleansed of infidels.
Before this happens Washington must be burnt to a cinder and the US must be in a state of civil war.

If you're trying to create something similar to what the New Testament says...I recommend you go back and read it a bit.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2008-07-14 16:56:26

#104

blademaster: I'm moving to Brazil; +2,075|6645

FEOS wrote:
m3thod wrote:
Look! A priest that even blesses those that just been involved in genocide.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e … ebren4.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c … ca2007.jpg

http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2005/0 … ica105.jpg

Your shit stinks too.
OK. What sect was it, and was it their dogma that drove the genocide? Or was that a secular government's doing?

fuck Muslims (not all the ones causing trouble)

Last edited by blademaster (2008-07-14 16:56:54)

2008-07-15 01:28:51

#105

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6105|eXtreme to the maX

But one must choose to defend oneself, and it is normally in one's self-interest to do so. Hence, all wars are wars of choice, and all wars are wars of self-interest.

Thats pretty much the dumbest thing I ever heard.
So going to war to steal someone's oil and break their country and defending yourself against invasion and tyranny are exactly on a par because they are both self-interest?

If you're trying to create something similar to what the New Testament says...I recommend you go back and read it a bit.

Lets just cut and paste shall we?

Moslems accept the Koran as the inspired word of God. We believe that it provides us with all we need to know to have a real hope in the future.

Are you aware that the Koran teaches:
That Mohammed will return to the earth again? (Acts 1:11)
That he will establish Allah's kingdom when he returns? (Matthew 25:31-32)
That the current world political and social turmoil has been prophesied? (Luke 21:25-28)
That America will be a centre of conflict at the time Mohammed returns? (Zechariah 14:1-4)

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2008-07-15 01:42:08

#106

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6410|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
But one must choose to defend oneself, and it is normally in one's self-interest to do so. Hence, all wars are wars of choice, and all wars are wars of self-interest.
Thats pretty much the dumbest thing I ever heard.
So going to war to steal someone's oil and break their country and defending yourself against invasion and tyranny are exactly on a par because they are both self-interest?

When you break it down to self-interest and choice...yes. You're the one who wanted to make it simplistic, not me.

Dilbert_X wrote:
If you're trying to create something similar to what the New Testament says...I recommend you go back and read it a bit.
Lets just cut and paste shall we?

Moslems accept the Koran as the inspired word of God. We believe that it provides us with all we need to know to have a real hope in the future.

Are you aware that the Koran teaches:
That Mohammed will return to the earth again? (Acts 1:11)
That he will establish Allah's kingdom when he returns? (Matthew 25:31-32)
That the current world political and social turmoil has been prophesied? (Luke 21:25-28)
That America will be a centre of conflict at the time Mohammed returns? (Zechariah 14:1-4)

Where was that part about Europe being cleansed of infidels? Or someplace being burnt to a cinder and its capital in civil war?

You completely overlooked what you actually wrote (which is what I addressed) and went with something else (which I didn't address). The only thing in common with the above is that someone is going to return to the earth.

Nice technique. If you'd used facts instead of hyperbole...but it's pointless to even try to explain. You like hyperbole way too much.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2008-07-15 02:38:08

#107

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6105|eXtreme to the maX

When you break it down to self-interest and choice...yes. You're the one who wanted to make it simplistic, not me.

There is a big difference in starting a war of greed compared with self preservation.
Ask Lowing about protecting your life and your possesions - you seem to be on the side of the mexicans here.

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2008-07-15 02:59:45

#108

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6410|'Murka

I'm not on anyone's side.

The distinction you are making is which self-interest you are choosing to act on behalf of.

Last edited by FEOS (2008-07-15 03:00:07)

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2008-07-15 03:02:34

#109

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6105|eXtreme to the maX

Greed and self-preservation are two very different kinds of self interest.
Suggesting aggression and self-defence are two sides of the same coin is simply dumb.

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2008-07-15 03:07:12

#110

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6410|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
Greed and self-preservation are two very different kinds of self interest.
Suggesting aggression and self-defence are two sides of the same coin is simply dumb.

It's not a two-sided coin...I never implied different. It's more like a 20-sided die.

That's indicative of the problem here. You attempt to make a complex situation simplistic, and by doing so, dilute the real issues.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2008-07-15 03:11:54

#111

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6105|eXtreme to the maX

I don't see 20 sides, only two.
Where is the complexity exactly?
It seems simple enough to me, you're the one throwing up the smokescreen of complexity.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-07-15 03:12:41)

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2008-07-15 03:24:43

#112

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6410|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
I don't see 20 sides, only two.
Where is the complexity exactly?
It seems simple enough to me, you're the one throwing up the smokescreen of complexity.

C'mon. You're the super-intelligent engineer...can't you think more than one layer deep?

For example: Aggression is the action culminating from multiple self-interests (could be greed and self-preservation simultaneously). They gather (or are one self-interest (ie, self-preservation) so important that no other option is deemed acceptable) to a point where the act chosen as most in line with that group's self-interest(s) is aggression. Aggression is rarely, if ever, chosen for its own sake.

And we're getting off topic.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2008-07-15 03:34:49

#113

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6105|eXtreme to the maX

Equally as often as not people use self-preservation as a smokescreen for their real motive which is greed and venal self interest.
The Iraq invasion being the example in point, Hitler's invasion of Europe being a good parallel.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-07-15 03:36:39)

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2008-07-15 16:16:31

#114

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6410|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
Equally as often as not people use self-preservation as a smokescreen for their real motive which is greed and venal self interest.
The Iraq invasion being the example in point, Hitler's invasion of Europe being a good parallel.

Your opinion.

Your unfounded, emotional, hyperbolic, poorly-developed...opinion.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2008-07-15 16:30:09

#115

IRONCHEF: Member; +385|6490|Northern California

How bout we stop all the muslim and religion threads because I'm getting tired of all the ads for "MUSLIM SINGLES for Matrimony!!"

2008-07-15 16:31:17

#116

God Save the Queen: Banned; +628|6343|tropical regions of london

Ive got a verizon wireless ad

2008-07-16 05:58:49

#117

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6105|eXtreme to the maX

Your unfounded, emotional, hyperbolic, poorly-developed...opinion.

Not really, your feeble arguments don't stand up to scrutiny and public opinion is against you.
Its pretty much you and Duhbya in the bunker now.

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2008-07-16 06:50:35

#118

theelviscerator: Member; +19|6288

PureFodder wrote:
Many sects of christian fundamentalists enciurage a mass war between Israel and the middle east that they hope will snowball out of control and kill everyone on the panet.

Can't get much more violent than that.

proof? with casualty figures...

otherwise its just bs you pulled out of your ass.

2008-07-16 17:07:27

#119

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6405|North Carolina

theelviscerator wrote:
PureFodder wrote:
Many sects of christian fundamentalists enciurage a mass war between Israel and the middle east that they hope will snowball out of control and kill everyone on the panet.

Can't get much more violent than that.
proof? with casualty figures...

otherwise its just bs you pulled out of your ass.

I think he's referring to the general conflict idea behind the Rapture. I figured you, of all people, would know about them.

2008-07-16 18:39:20

#120

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6410|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
Not really, your feeble arguments don't stand up to scrutiny and public opinion is against you.
Its pretty much you and Duhbya in the bunker now.

Actually, I think you're mirror-imaging. My arguments are generally objective and based on facts. Yours are generally emotional, fraught with hyperbole, and based on your own pre-conceptions and conspiracy theories...which don't stand up to logic, facts, or reason (your "assessment" of the "real motive" for the Iraq invasion being a case in point).

And if you think I'm a GWB supporter, you're clearly not in touch with reality...and your opinion doesn't count as "public opinion". It only counts as your opinion. And it's flat wrong on that count.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2008-07-17 01:17:05

#121

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6105|eXtreme to the maX

Oh come on.
Do you still seriously believe the Iraq invasion was about WMD and not about bringing the great luminous bunny back to earth and to a lesser extent oil.

Even Duhbya has let slip it wasn't the main reason, and the majority of the public believe this also.

Some reading for you.
http://www.twnside.org.sg/title/2414.htm
'Washington: Of the major religious groups in the United States, evangelical Christians are the biggest backers of Israel and Washington's planned war against Iraq, says a new survey released here on 9 October by a politically potent group of fundamentalist Christians and Jews.'

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/ … d=&id=
'most Americans (71%) believe that the Bush administration should not have gone to war if it knew or suspected that the Iraqi government did not have WMD and did not provide substantial support to al Qaeda. This belief is overwhelming among Democrats (87%) but also includes a majority of Republicans (53%).

There is also a partisan split on the issue of whether President Bush was determined to go to war regardless of whether Iraq posed a threat because of its WMD program or its support for al Qaeda terrorists. Asked whether the president would have invaded Iraq “for other reasons,” two-thirds of Americans (66%) said yes. Those answering affirmatively included an overwhelming majority of Democrats (87%) but slightly less than half of Republicans (47%). '

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2008-07-17 01:43:42

#122

Braddock: Agitator; +916|6290|Éire

IRONCHEF wrote:
How bout we stop all the muslim and religion threads because I'm getting tired of all the ads for "MUSLIM SINGLES for Matrimony!!"

That Muslim dating site gets awesome value for money from Google ads because of this forum!

All those Islamophobes on here are only helping Muslims find love and happiness with all these Islam threads!

2008-07-17 02:24:30

#123

globefish23: sophisticated slacker; +334|6323|Graz, Austria

Braddock wrote:
IRONCHEF wrote:
How bout we stop all the muslim and religion threads because I'm getting tired of all the ads for "MUSLIM SINGLES for Matrimony!!"
That Muslim dating site gets awesome value for money from Google ads because of this forum!

All those Islamophobes on here are only helping Muslims find love and happiness with all these Islam threads!

Their love leads to sex, the sex leads to more babies.
And more babies leads to an army of scimitar-wielding, pillaging Muslims that will overrun the US in 10-15 years.
(Or at whatever age a child can wield and operate a Kalashnikov assault rifle.)

2008-07-17 02:25:56

#124

Braddock: Agitator; +916|6290|Éire

globefish23 wrote:
Braddock wrote:
IRONCHEF wrote:
How bout we stop all the muslim and religion threads because I'm getting tired of all the ads for "MUSLIM SINGLES for Matrimony!!"
That Muslim dating site gets awesome value for money from Google ads because of this forum!

All those Islamophobes on here are only helping Muslims find love and happiness with all these Islam threads!
Their love leads to sex, the sex leads to more babies.
And more babies leads to an army of scimitar-wielding, pillaging Muslims that will overrun the US in 10-15 years.
(Or at whatever age a child can wield and operate a Kalashnikov assault rifle.)

So basically lowing is to blame for Islamic terrorism!

EDIT: I just read this quote tree back and it reads ironically like a lowingesque argument!

Last edited by Braddock (2008-07-17 02:27:00)

2008-07-17 02:58:25

#125

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6410|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
Oh come on.
Do you still seriously believe the Iraq invasion was about WMD and not about bringing the great luminous bunny back to earth and to a lesser extent oil.

Even Duhbya has let slip it wasn't the main reason, and the majority of the public believe this also.

He changed what he said it was about...and even in doing that, he never said anything about bringing about the Rapture.

Are you taking your meds?

Dilbert_X wrote:
Some reading for you.
http://www.twnside.org.sg/title/2414.htm
'Washington: Of the major religious groups in the United States, evangelical Christians are the biggest backers of Israel and Washington's planned war against Iraq, says a new survey released here on 9 October by a politically potent group of fundamentalist Christians and Jews.'

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/ … d=&id=
'most Americans (71%) believe that the Bush administration should not have gone to war if it knew or suspected that the Iraqi government did not have WMD and did not provide substantial support to al Qaeda. This belief is overwhelming among Democrats (87%) but also includes a majority of Republicans (53%).

There is also a partisan split on the issue of whether President Bush was determined to go to war regardless of whether Iraq posed a threat because of its WMD program or its support for al Qaeda terrorists. Asked whether the president would have invaded Iraq “for other reasons,” two-thirds of Americans (66%) said yes. Those answering affirmatively included an overwhelming majority of Democrats (87%) but slightly less than half of Republicans (47%). '

And that has what exactly to do with this thread?

Your numbers point to partisanship in American politics. Wow. Shocker.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

BF2S Forums Think before you flame (question about religions)

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

oug wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

m3thod wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

theelviscerator wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Braddock wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

globefish23 wrote:

Braddock wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

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