unnamednewbie13
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"But you haven't seen Portrait. How could you possibly make a personal judgment call based on other experiences or dialogue on the internet? Invalid decision!"

You're always on about how we don't want to watch it BeCaUsE oF cRiTiCs, but I already saw Cats. Specifically, Cats '99. Read the TS Eliot stuff. Grew up exposed to musicals since my parents were into that stuff. With an interest in CG, and some college experience in the latter. Way more people than film critics who like the kinds of movies you don't like have come down on Cats '19. You can keep your weird sexualized cockroach scenes and convoluted revisions to the storyline.

Why wouldn't you wear a seatbelt made out of tissue paper? You think it wouldn't work? Bah! Have you even tried it?
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6732|PNW

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

feelings. romance, family, or interpersonal drama
Soap opera - you like soap opera
Soap operas contribute far more to society, even the arts if you want to be generous to all involved, in telling human stories and dramas than superhero movies do rehashing cheap DC morals and unrelatable tales of characters with unattainable superpowers. Not that Batman crouching on a gargoyle can't be a cool, nostalgic scene on its own. In small, reasonable doses.

It makes more sense to more regularly identify with characters going through human ups or downs in their lives than to constantly latch onto some leotard fighting out in space like Goku. Someone who just unexpectedly lost a loved one to a traffic accident, immensely more impactful than big purple man snapping fingers.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
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I don't think backwards looking babble has contributed anything to society.
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unnamednewbie13
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I think if we want to call anything backwards looking babble, one of the first things we can look at is this superhero genre.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/61/Birth_of_a_Nation_theatrical_poster.jpg/440px-Birth_of_a_Nation_theatrical_poster.jpg

An aside, technically brilliant, though of course problematic. Similarly I suppose to Leni Riefenstahl talent bent towards Nazi German propaganda.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
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You're grasping now.
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unnamednewbie13
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Is it really grasping though? There's some pretty interesting takes and insider stories about the comic book industry throughout its history. Connections between the Birth of a Nation stuff and superhero fare hasn't only been pointed out in Moore's interview. Other comic writers, bloggers, historians have pointed it out. Secret identities, hidden costumes. The portrayal of klansmen as romantic vigilantes even in the source book.

Movie still relevant as a reference for the destructive potential media can have on a culture and people's views.

(Interestingly, when the film came out, the civil war hadn't even been that long ago. A bit like making a Vietnam movie today.)

e: I don't think it should naturally extend that the power puff girl whose space scene made you weep tears of empowerment should be viewed as unabashed white supremacist propaganda or whatever (I still haven't seen it, so maybe it is?), but maybe it's interesting to know some of the roots of your favorite genre.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2021-12-08 16:44:48)

uziq
Member
+492|3413

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

feelings. romance, family, or interpersonal drama
Soap opera - you like soap opera
you do realise this is also the basic topic of greek tragedy, shakespeare and william faulkner right?

you sound like an emotional maladapt.
uziq
Member
+492|3413

Dilbert_X wrote:

I don't think backwards looking babble has contributed anything to society.
yes, comic book movies, notoriously forward looking.

can’t wait for the next exciting instalment of ww2-era superman or 70s mutant in a leotard!
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6067|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

you do realise this is also the basic topic of greek tragedy, shakespeare and william faulkner right?
Three things no-one has given a shit about for years now.
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uziq
Member
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the point of my selection was that these themes are perennial. ancient greek audiences were interested in them. pre-modern elizabethans were interested in them. modern people were/are interested in them. you could add to faulkner as a 21st century update the names jonathan franzen/sally rooney, modern publishing sensations, or any number of modern australian writers/directors working today. to make out they are 'old and irrelevant' interests is just funny.

joel coen, one of the main directors/producers working in the american movie biz today, just released a macbeth movie this year, its topped out all of the end-of-year lists.



starring multiple oscar-winning actors like denzel washington and frances mcdormand. definitely irrelevant. yep.

you do realize most comic book archetypes and plot conceits are ripped straight from the pantheon of ancient greek myth or tragedy, right? and isn't Dune a bit, well, soap opera with that huge love subplot?

Dilbert clearly Knows Best. from his couch in wattanooga he has the most realistic point-of-view on movies and What People Like.

Last edited by uziq (2021-12-08 17:27:40)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
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You do know that people are knocking out dreary micro-films that don't make a profit purely for the oscar chase?

Macbeth version 11592 - What hot takes are in that one I wonder? Can't wait to see.

Thats the thing about literature nerds, they can't create anything, only endlessly rehash other people's work.
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uziq
Member
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what does it feel like to be so consistently wrong and dumbheaded about almost everything?

you do realize there's more to the world than marvel movies and movies 'knocked out' to make a few billion to make a 'profit purely' from barely literate chinese audiences?

what does it feel like being pandered to, condescended to, really, by simplistic fictions watered down so that your beloved movie stars and their studios can filch the pockets of 1.3 billion chinese movie-goers, whom they care about much more than your over-invested little nerd ass?

and ah, yes, again the 'can't create anything new' line. when you are speaking implicitly from a position in defense of your own tastes, that is, comic book movies and sci-fi, this is really a bit fucking rich, don't you think? you do know that comics and sci-fi both came out of massive pulp industries, right, wherein everyone was ripping off the classics, adapting them, and cribbing each other's work? comics were literally cobbled together on toilet-grade paper and re-presented staple character archetypes/conventional plots/etc. adapted for a barely literate mass audience. to keep going on and on about 'originality' when you like COMIC BOOK MOVIES is fucking hilarious. the comic industry, with a few notable exceptions, has been one of the least original, most unscrupulous and opportunistic, creative INDUSTRIES (note the word) in the whole 20th/21st century.

if you want highly original work, you'll have to look to the experimental side of things or the avant-garde. which you are obviously not interested in whatsoever. or, you know, you could watch the movies presented by new, breakthrough directors or different points-of-view, such as minari, which you are also not interested in doing, either. you like to have classical plotlines and rehashed greek myths presented to you in a veneer of novelty. 'it's so original!'

Last edited by uziq (2021-12-08 17:53:35)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
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I'm only 'wrong' according to you.
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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
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Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

you do realise this is also the basic topic of greek tragedy, shakespeare and william faulkner right?
Three things no-one has given a shit about for years now.

Dilbert_X wrote:

You do know that people are knocking out dreary micro-films that don't make a profit purely for the oscar chase?

Macbeth version 11592 - What hot takes are in that one I wonder? Can't wait to see.
People keep running, making, funding, and consuming that stuff. Obviously people are interested in it. Comic books themselves trod very well rutted roads, borrowing from past literatures and rehashing concepts and ideas, from even within their own circles.

Spiderman version 11592, might as well.

What are you even talking about itt.

Thats the thing about literature nerds, they can't create anything, only endlessly rehash other people's work.
Says the engineer, literally standing on the shoulders of giants.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
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unnamednewbie13 wrote:

People keep running, making, funding, and consuming that stuff.
People don't consume enough for the makers to even break even.
These are vanity projects.
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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
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Comic books: "Magneto, but from the 156th dimension and he's also a vampire, and his Charles is a werewolf."
Dilbert: "There are too many Shakespeare movies and nobody is interested in classic literature."
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6732|PNW

dilbert: "Only profit is an indicator of quality."
michael bay net worth: $450 mil
fast fassion: *exists*

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2021-12-08 19:03:45)

uziq
Member
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Dilbert_X wrote:

I'm only 'wrong' according to you.
and, erhm, the millions of people who do go to see these movies, who still pack out cinemas, theatres, who still buy novels in considerable numbers; to say nothing of the critics who watch them, rate them, talk about them, list them on end-of-year lists ...

i mean, if something is on the new yorker's 'top movies of 2021' list, or the sound & sight magazine poll, can it really be only me who is watching it?

perhaps you're just cozened by your own ignorance and a self-satisfied, smug little teenager?
uziq
Member
+492|3413

Dilbert_X wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

People keep running, making, funding, and consuming that stuff.
People don't consume enough for the makers to even break even.
These are vanity projects.
minari:
budget $2 million
box office gross $15 million
est. rentals/dvds/etc est. $9 million.

the lighthouse:
budget $11 million
box office gross $18 million
est. rentals/dvds/etc $750,000.

portrait of a lady on fire:
budget $5.5 million
box office gross $12 million
est. rentals/dvds/etc TBA.

funny definition of 'don't even break even'. seems like its at least 200% ROI to me, and substantially more if you have an oscar hit (like minari).

it's not for you, that's fine. but don't make out these are irrelevant vanity projects driven only by 'unoriginal' literature bores. nobody is calling these box office hits or worldwide sensations. i literally wrote 'minor' as a descriptor of both of them. but i'm glad for production companies like A24 (brad pitt was executive producer on minari, fyi) who fill out a nice ecological niche in the film world. the MCU and other superhero schlock has sucked all the oxygen out of the box office in the last 10 years. there is no way any objective or dispassionate observer could look at mainstream box office offerings n the last 5–10 years and not conclude that it has suffered badly from stagnation and/or franchise inflation. i'm happy that people are making bold and, yes, original new movies to a very high standard of accomplishment and skill with modest budgets.

why do you hate to see people do something and do it well?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
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I don't care really, you're the one perpetually shitting on things you don't personally like.
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uziq
Member
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lol. confronted with actual figures: "oh i don't care really".

maybe it's time you should grow up. try watching an adult film or reading a book. i highly recommend it. you are the emotional equivalent of an ingrown toenail.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6067|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

I'm only 'wrong' according to you.
and, erhm, the millions of people who do go to see these movies, who still pack out cinemas, theatres, who still buy novels in considerable numbers; to say nothing of the critics who watch them, rate them, talk about them, list them on end-of-year lists ...

i mean, if something is on the new yorker's 'top movies of 2021' list, or the sound & sight magazine poll, can it really be only me who is watching it?
A small minority of other people have different tastes, doesn't mean mine are 'wrong'

perhaps you're just cozened by your own ignorance and a self-satisfied, smug little teenager?
Which of us hasn't got past the toddler's "I'm so clever and everyone else is stupid" complex.
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uziq
Member
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nobody said your tastes are 'wrong', but that you are making verifiably wrong statements on just about every topic.

'nobody is interested in this'.
'it's unoriginal'.
'doesn't even break even'.

the really confusing thing, from a psychological point-of-view, is why it affronts you so much that other people are interested in human drama, interpersonal relationships, romance, family life, etc. you have to insist that it's 'soap opera' even though it's been the topic of high-art for millenia. quite a strange impulse you have.

it would be fair enough if you weren't concerned with such matters at all, but you seemingly couple this wish to denigrate 'soap opera' with a concomitant wish to make Cats and your own pet-passions Really Good Things, Actually. it's not as if you're a person minding his own business, uninterested in other things. you need to stress that they're unoriginal and pursued only by 'literature snobs/hipsters/bores'.

it's not my fault you are are highly ignorant and unlettered, by the way. i don't come across as a 'complex'-type when i'm around anyone who is normally conversant with, er, movies which are currently in the box office or novels which are currently in bookstores. that's entirely your problem. you are a highly undeveloped individual.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6067|eXtreme to the maX
You're the one who spends literally all his time pissing on things he doesn't think are 'valid' or whatever, when typically you're going on other people's opinions having not experienced them yourself.

Good luck.
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uziq
Member
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yes i have no experience in movie watching or book reading. very true. i 'typically' rely on other's opinions, without doubt!

you're still upset about Cats, aren't you? that one movie which, almost unanimously, was a flop. to such an extent that it became a popular meme as well as critically panned.

from the summary of its wikipedia alone:

It is considered by some to be one of the worst films ever made.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cats_(2019_film)#Reception


if i spend 90 minutes to go and watch it, that knocks out the struts beneath all of your arguments in this discussion, doesn't it? i mean that's literally the only thing you have to rely on here.

Last edited by uziq (2021-12-08 21:20:56)

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