Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6599|132 and Bush

A theory behind current unemployment.
From Jerry Bowyer the Chief Economist for the BenchMark Financial Network.
Ask yourself a few questions: Why did unemployment surge at a time when unemployment compensation claims are historically low? More to the point, how could unemployment spike this much without a coinciding spike in corporate lay-offs?

    The answer to all of these questions is same: because very few people lost jobs last month. This huge jump in the size of the unemployed comes from new entrants to the economy – hundreds of thousands of them. In short, well over 600,000 people who were not job seekers in April became job seekers in May. And who starts looking for work at the end of Spring? That’s right – students. Hundreds of thousands of students are looking for work right now, and they’re not finding it.

    Congress is to blame. Last year Congressional Democrats (along with some Stockholm-Syndromed Republicans) passed the Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2007, which started a phased hike of the minimum wage from $5.15 an hour to $7.25. Free market economists warned them that this would increase unemployment – that rapid increases in unemployment compensation hit teens and minorities the hardest. But the class-warriors are running the people’s house now, and they would hear none of that, so they took to the floor, let loose the dogs of demagoguery, and saddled America’s pizza parlors, municipal swimming pools, house painting businesses and lawn mowing services with a huge cost increase.
Who got hurt? Overwhelmingly, the job seekers who could not gain employment were teenagers and African-Americans. Those of us who argued against a minimum-wage increase had predicted that exact outcome.

Bowyer points out an ironic twist on these results. The only organizations flush with cash this year and who need entry-level workers are political campaigns. At least a few of these unemployed people will likely end up working for the politicians who put them in that position, and who would make the situation worse in years to come.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
13rin
Member
+977|6478
Get ready for a possible 8 year of this...  It really makes me want to bury my money and report my guns stolen.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
d4rkst4r
biggie smalls
+72|6452|Ontario, Canada

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Get ready for a possible 8 year of this...  It really makes me want to bury my money and report my guns stolen.
Actually theres no point in burying your money since it will be worthless eventually, it might have been worth burying when you could redeem your cash in gold.
"you know life is what we make it, and a chance is like a picture, it'd be nice if you just take it"
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|6808|Nårvei

Even $7.25 is ridiculously low ... my 14 year old son makes twice that amount on his paper route ... i find it strange that US merchandice isn't more competitive with wages like that ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6554

Varegg wrote:

Even $7.25 is ridiculously low ... my 14 year old son makes twice that amount on his paper route ... i find it strange that US merchandice isn't more competitive with wages like that ...
You do live in Norway, the most expensive place I've ever had my wallet raped in my life. When I was in the US as a student 9 years ago the min wage, which I was earning, was $2.33 (!!!!)*.

* Admittedly that's the waitstaff min wage, cos they have that stupid tipping lark over there.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-06-09 14:21:19)

Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|6808|Nårvei

CameronPoe wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Even $7.25 is ridiculously low ... my 14 year old son makes twice that amount on his paper route ... i find it strange that US merchandice isn't more competitive with wages like that ...
You do live in Norway, the most expensive place I've ever had my wallet raped in my life.
True ... but still US merchandise costs way more than their wages should allow it to cost, could be that the workforce isn't that eager to work knowing they get paid less than a Norwegian paperboy
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6650|USA

Varegg wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Even $7.25 is ridiculously low ... my 14 year old son makes twice that amount on his paper route ... i find it strange that US merchandice isn't more competitive with wages like that ...
You do live in Norway, the most expensive place I've ever had my wallet raped in my life.
True ... but still US merchandise costs way more than their wages should allow it to cost, could be that the workforce isn't that eager to work knowing they get paid less than a Norwegian paperboy
Yup, our citizens are leaning more and more liberal, where we think the Govt. should be hand holding our way through life, instead of us actually earning our way. The govt. would like nothing better than to have us all indebted to it, financially as well as health care and education, and guess which party ramrods those "incentives".
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6554

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

You do live in Norway, the most expensive place I've ever had my wallet raped in my life.
True ... but still US merchandise costs way more than their wages should allow it to cost, could be that the workforce isn't that eager to work knowing they get paid less than a Norwegian paperboy
Yup, our citizens are leaning more and more liberal, where we think the Govt. should be hand holding our way through life, instead of us actually earning our way. The govt. would like nothing better than to have us all indebted to it, financially as well as health care and education, and guess which party ramrods those "incentives".
I don't think many Europeans feel 'indebted' to their governments. They see the standard of living and value to society that sensible socialism provides and revel in it. Our ethos and the ethos in the US are likes apples and pears.

Having said all that, the minimum wage is a thorny topic. I'm extremely wary of governments increasing it, given that it is an unnatural subversion of the free market. Go too extreme and you will just generate a massive black market for labour.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-06-09 14:29:56)

Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|6808|Nårvei

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:


You do live in Norway, the most expensive place I've ever had my wallet raped in my life.
True ... but still US merchandise costs way more than their wages should allow it to cost, could be that the workforce isn't that eager to work knowing they get paid less than a Norwegian paperboy
Yup, our citizens are leaning more and more liberal, where we think the Govt. should be hand holding our way through life, instead of us actually earning our way. The govt. would like nothing better than to have us all indebted to it, financially as well as health care and education, and guess which party ramrods those "incentives".
It's not about holding hands lowing, it's about giving people less fortunate than yourself a little help when they need it ... like mentioned before, a country's success is measured by it's poor population and yours is on the rise ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6650|USA

Varegg wrote:

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:


True ... but still US merchandise costs way more than their wages should allow it to cost, could be that the workforce isn't that eager to work knowing they get paid less than a Norwegian paperboy
Yup, our citizens are leaning more and more liberal, where we think the Govt. should be hand holding our way through life, instead of us actually earning our way. The govt. would like nothing better than to have us all indebted to it, financially as well as health care and education, and guess which party ramrods those "incentives".
It's not about holding hands lowing, it's about giving people less fortunate than yourself a little help when they need it ... like mentioned before, a country's success is measured by it's poor population and yours is on the rise ...
The key word in your sentence Varegg is "GIVING"... Does the word EARNING or WORKING, or AMBITION or DRIVE or PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, come into play at all in your view point, or is it simply stealing from achievers to solve underachievers problems your answer?
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6554

lowing wrote:

The key word in your sentence Varegg is "GIVING"... Does the word EARNING or WORKING, or AMBITION or DRIVE or PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, come into play at all in your view point, or is it simply stealing from achievers to solve underachievers problems your answer?
Wow. How are earning/working/ambition/drive and socialism mutually exclusive? Because I exhibit all of those things just like 99% of the Irish and European people I know...

Can I ask you something? Has there ever been or is there ever likely to be 100% employment in the US or in any other country for that matter? Is the 'free market' ever going to operate ideally, at 100% efficiency?

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-06-09 14:58:32)

lowing
Banned
+1,662|6650|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

The key word in your sentence Varegg is "GIVING"... Does the word EARNING or WORKING, or AMBITION or DRIVE or PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, come into play at all in your view point, or is it simply stealing from achievers to solve underachievers problems your answer?
Wow. How are earning/working/ambition/drive and socialism mutually exclusive? Because I exhibit all of those things just like 99% of the Irish and European people I know...

Can I ask you something? Has there ever been or is there ever likely to be 100% employment in the US or in any other country for that matter? Is the 'free market' ever going to operate ideally, at 100% efficiency?
They are exclusive because YOU the earner have the same benefit as those that do not. Hardly fair.

To answer your question, the answer is no. There will always be plenty of slackers that refuse to make themselves marketable to keep unemployment around 3-5 percent. The key is, just make sure you are not one of them.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6554

lowing wrote:

They are exclusive because YOU the earner have the same benefit as those that do not. Hardly fair.

To answer your question, the answer is no. There will always be plenty of slackers that refuse to make themselves marketable to keep unemployment around 3-5 percent. The key is, just make sure you are not one of them.
lol I don't view myself as having the same benefit - I have a massively more comfortable life than those who are just starting out in life or have fallen on hard times. My disposable income is ample. I take pride in the fact I offer them a safety net and that I will be provided that same net in the event that something terrible should befall me (not that I would need it given that I have ample savings and pay for medical insurance). I take pride in the fact that my money educates people in universities for free. Our ethos here in Europe is that we owe a debt to society and that people don't simply have a dollar value. In the US you seem to view humans as just another commodity. Over here we have more respect for our fellow man. Ironically, we take a more 'Christian' view of socio-economics.

Oh and as for your ludicrous last point - you know fine well that there isn't a single thing on earth that operates with 100% efficiency. Nice sidestep.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-06-09 15:13:50)

topthrill05
Member
+125|6576|Rochester NY USA
Good christ 5.25 was terrible and 7.15 isn't much better, not everyone is going to have a college degree and get a 50k a year job. That simply won't ever happen. But why should that prevent the less educated from earning a decent living as well?

In fact there are plenty and I mean plenty of jobs for students, wages have nothing to do with them not finding work, its more like they don't feel like doing the work that is available.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6650|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

They are exclusive because YOU the earner have the same benefit as those that do not. Hardly fair.

To answer your question, the answer is no. There will always be plenty of slackers that refuse to make themselves marketable to keep unemployment around 3-5 percent. The key is, just make sure you are not one of them.
lol I don't view myself as having the same benefit - I have a massively more comfortable life than those who are just starting out in life or have fallen on hard times. My disposable income is ample. I take pride in the fact I offer them a safety net and that I will be provided that same net in the event that something terrible should befall me (not that I would need it given that I have ample savings and pay for medical insurance). I take pride in the fact that my money educates people in universities for free. Our ethos here in Europe is that we owe a debt to society and that people don't simply have a dollar value. In the US you seem to view humans as just another commodity. Over here we have more respect for our fellow man. Ironically, we take a more 'Christian' view of socio-economics.

Oh and as for your ludicrous last point - you know fine well that there isn't a single thing on earth that operates with 100% efficiency. Nice sidestep.
How do you feel about people that live in a country with free college educations and yet do not take advantage of it?

As far as my ludicrous last point: Did I basically say that we will never achieve 100% efficiency? I thought I did.


I think it is funny how you think America is a place to be kept down and not allowed to achieve. If there is a "ludicrous" insinuation that is it.
CaptainSpaulding71
Member
+119|6355|CA, USA
speaking of colleges, why do people pick majors that pay crap?
topthrill05
Member
+125|6576|Rochester NY USA

CaptainSpaulding71 wrote:

speaking of colleges, why do people pick majors that pay crap?
Because of the foolish mentality of parents/counselors to follow your dreams instead of what will be a stable career choice.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6554

lowing wrote:

How do you feel about people that live in a country with free college educations and yet do not take advantage of it?
100% free college and university education to all those capable?

lowing wrote:

As far as my ludicrous last point: Did I basically say that we will never achieve 100% efficiency? I thought I did.
The ludicrousness came in your pretence that the only reason there is unemployment is because of lazy people.

lowing wrote:

I think it is funny how you think America is a place to be kept down and not allowed to achieve. If there is a "ludicrous" insinuation that is it.
That last assertion makes no sense whatsoever. You are free to operate your own system, I don't particularly care which. I see the benefits or your system and see the benefits of ours. I prefer a less mercenary culture where individuals are not simply commodities. It provides a better breeding ground for the arts, strengthens social harmony and values living life over and above perpetual toil.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6650|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

How do you feel about people that live in a country with free college educations and yet do not take advantage of it?
100% free college and university education to all those capable?

lowing wrote:

As far as my ludicrous last point: Did I basically say that we will never achieve 100% efficiency? I thought I did.
The ludicrousness came in your pretence that the only reason there is unemployment is because of lazy people.

lowing wrote:

I think it is funny how you think America is a place to be kept down and not allowed to achieve. If there is a "ludicrous" insinuation that is it.
That last assertion makes no sense whatsoever. You are free to operate your own system, I don't particularly care which. I see the benefits or your system and see the benefits of ours. I prefer a less mercenary culture where individuals are not simply commodities. It provides a better breeding ground for the arts, strengthens social harmony and values living life over and above perpetual toil.
1. Yes Cam, do you give a shit about those that have free college and still are not educated or marketable?

2. Nope, we simply allow ourselves to succeed or fail as we see fit. It is called freedom. I di not endorse charging my govt. with the responsibility of taking care of me. I charge my govt. with my protection so that I can remain free to pursue what I want as I want.
CaptainSpaulding71
Member
+119|6355|CA, USA

CameronPoe wrote:

That last assertion makes no sense whatsoever. You are free to operate your own system, I don't particularly care which. I see the benefits or your system and see the benefits of ours. I prefer a less mercenary culture where individuals are not simply commodities. It provides a better breeding ground for the arts, strengthens social harmony and values living life over and above perpetual toil.
This last bit is one reason the US is stagnating in terms of tech these days.  we have become an entertainment culture over here.  the young-ins aspire to be rappers and sports-stars rather than the next guy to the moon, or big entrepreneur, etc.  when i talk to young people that have family in tech, they say they don't want to pursue tech as a career because of the long hours.  yet, i see tons and tons of foreigners coming to work at my company.  it's rare that we get US citizens.  in fact, we had 2-3 openings we had extremely tough time filling because the people qualified (all foreign and did not get one from us citizen) had visa issues.  the ONE thing that sets america apart from many other countries used to be our 'pull up from bootstraps' mentality - that innovative spirit of how to make it work.  first to the moon and all that. 

not sure if you watch the Tonight Show with Jay Leno or have seen his Jay-walking episodes on TV where he asks current event questions to people on the street.  that kind of stuff really bums me out because people can be just so friggin clueless.  These same people are the ones likely following their dreams though.  maybe they are happy.  that's all the matters right?
Ratzinger
Member
+43|6390|Wollongong, NSW, Australia

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

The key word in your sentence Varegg is "GIVING"... Does the word EARNING or WORKING, or AMBITION or DRIVE or PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, come into play at all in your view point, or is it simply stealing from achievers to solve underachievers problems your answer?
Wow. How are earning/working/ambition/drive and socialism mutually exclusive? Because I exhibit all of those things just like 99% of the Irish and European people I know...

Can I ask you something? Has there ever been or is there ever likely to be 100% employment in the US or in any other country for that matter? Is the 'free market' ever going to operate ideally, at 100% efficiency?
They are exclusive because YOU the earner have the same benefit as those that do not. Hardly fair.

To answer your question, the answer is no. There will always be plenty of slackers that refuse to make themselves marketable to keep unemployment around 3-5 percent. The key is, just make sure you are not one of them.
So the 3-5% exists because they are TOO LAZY to work. OK.

So if there was no pool of unemployed, where would business get its new or entry-level staff from? People changing would walk straight from one to another?

Someone's missing a fairly integral part of capitalism here.
CaptainSpaulding71
Member
+119|6355|CA, USA

Ratzinger wrote:

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:


Wow. How are earning/working/ambition/drive and socialism mutually exclusive? Because I exhibit all of those things just like 99% of the Irish and European people I know...

Can I ask you something? Has there ever been or is there ever likely to be 100% employment in the US or in any other country for that matter? Is the 'free market' ever going to operate ideally, at 100% efficiency?
They are exclusive because YOU the earner have the same benefit as those that do not. Hardly fair.

To answer your question, the answer is no. There will always be plenty of slackers that refuse to make themselves marketable to keep unemployment around 3-5 percent. The key is, just make sure you are not one of them.
So the 3-5% exists because they are TOO LAZY to work. OK.

So if there was no pool of unemployed, where would business get its new or entry-level staff from? People changing would walk straight from one to another?

Someone's missing a fairly integral part of capitalism here.
every year we get tons of undocumented aliens flooding the border
every year we have some amount of legal immigration
every year we get new 16 year olds who are able to work = new people = expansion if birth rate is high
every year we get 65+ year olds who retire = new positions opening up
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6554

lowing wrote:

1. Yes Cam, do you give a shit about those that have free college and still are not educated or marketable?

2. Nope, we simply allow ourselves to succeed or fail as we see fit. It is called freedom. I di not endorse charging my govt. with the responsibility of taking care of me. I charge my govt. with my protection so that I can remain free to pursue what I want as I want.
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_education

No mention of free third level education for all in the US there.

2. 'It is called freedom.' Absolutist much? lol. You can have your version of 'freedom'. We'll keep our version.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-06-09 16:24:11)

pyscofrawg
AKA Selkies ftw
+55|6403|Earth
$7.25 isn't really that bad if you think about it. I'm completely happy right now only making $7.00 an hour. But then again, I'm only 19 and not trying to make a living right now. But money isn't really that hard to come by, but I do realize that I do have some opportunities that many don't have. I was entitled to a $2000 trumpet when I was 13, and that has made me more money than I would have imagined. I have a $5000 music scholarship when my tuition, dorm, and meal plan only come out to $4900 a year. So I pretty much get paid $100 to go to college. I do realize that not all people get that chance.
Signature
CaptainSpaulding71
Member
+119|6355|CA, USA
community colleges exist in the US and are like 15 bucks a credit for most cases.  a whole semester runs you probably 500 bucks including books.  that's practically free for an Associates degree which will get you an entry level position in most places. 

in fact, this is an excellent starting point since you can get rid of the bullshit general courses at community college and concentrate on your real major at the 4year university if you transfer.  then, you can take out loans and get grants to help fund that also. 

many states have free or reduced tuition for residents.  This varies greatly from state to state though.  in 1995, University of Pittsburgh cost about 4k per semester for tuition only.  Out here in Sacramento, CA, Sac State costs about 1-2k per semester i think.

does undergraduate degree really truly matter?  i don't think so.  Accredition means that schools pretty much teach the same thing.  grad school probably matters more since you work with an advisor on research for MS or PhD.  Some schools get more research grant $$$ than others.

i think it's more a 'where there is a will there is a way' kind of thing.  if you want it bad enough, you will find a way to get the education.  might have to suffer through a few years of paying off loans, but again, don't choose basketweaving as a major.  do something that makes money.  Healthcare is a great field - so is tech (but i'm biased).

Last edited by CaptainSpaulding71 (2008-06-09 16:33:08)

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2024 Jeff Minard