BF2S Forums Pathetic

You agree with my punctuation?

No, educational standards started dropping when people decided it was about answer questions, not about the processes behind it.  Socialisation is something that is learned through socialisation, and most people begin socialising at school.

ZombieVampire! wrote:

No, educational standards started dropping when people decided it was about answer questions, not about the processes behind it.  Socialisation is something that is learned through socialisation, and most people begin socialising at school.

And when did teaching to the test start? In the US, the two movements coincided.

Socializing in school is quite different than the schools feeling they are responsible for socialization. One is normal human interaction, the other is curriculum.

Last edited by FEOS (2008-06-02 02:09:37)

HurricaИe wrote:

nukchebi0 wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

In all honesty, whilst the education system may be flawed, it's kids and teens being apathetic about school and simply not giving a fuck that's the main reason for the population's...well, just go into a large city. Ask some random people who shot Lincoln or Kennedy.

You'll see what I mean.

This leads me to a brilliant idea. Everyone who doesn't want to learn gets to join the Army. Then they can go to Iraq and improve the gene pool in America.

You act like the military should be a punishment.

How about this:

We start manufacturing shit in the US again instead of outsourcing it to China. We get these tards to work there and enroll them in community colleges. If they do well, they're free to go.

Or how about this: We view every person as personally responsible for their own actions and their own problems, if they choose to take a path that leads to an American dream, assistance is available, if they choose a path that is self destructive, so be it, they walk the path alone and good riddance.

ZombieVampire! wrote:

FEOS wrote:

ZombieVampire! wrote:

No, educational standards started dropping when people decided it was about answer questions, not about the processes behind it.  Socialisation is something that is learned through socialisation, and most people begin socialising at school.

And when did teaching to the test start? In the US, the two movements coincided.

Socializing in school is quite different than the schools feeling they are responsible for socialization. One is normal human interaction, the other is curriculum.

It isn't part of the curriculum, and shouldn't be, but the fact is that's where it happens, and therefore an appropriate environment needs to be established.

Further, it seems to be there's been a push away from teaching useful social skills (and plenty of other useful things) and towards teaching pointless facts.

Actually, in the States, it is part of the curriculum--ingrained in many of the non-science courses. That's why I made the distinction between an environment that fosters socialization (school) and socializing students (curriculum).

Last edited by FEOS (2008-06-02 17:36:05)

ZombieVampire! wrote:

No, educational standards started dropping when people decided it was about answer questions, not about the processes behind it.  Socialisation is something that is learned through socialisation, and most people begin socialising at school.

It's not about socialization.  little urban gangsters have no problem socializing with eachother.  It's a culture that mocks education, responsibility, and honesty.  It's parents who are too busy turning tricks and shooting heroin to instill discipline and responsibility in their own kids.  It's not a fucking teachers job to raise other people's kids.

GorillaKing798 wrote:

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

-making him drink is the parent's job.

Reciprocity wrote:

GorillaKing798 wrote:

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

-making him drink is the parent's job.

Bingo. The truth about education, is that there is no truth. I've been through 8 schools in my life, four different systems, in two countries. I have some perspective.

In some systems (mostly in N. America), they teach you English, math, sciences, maybe history. Those are the so-called "core" classes. You can add on to that. This leads to a very basic education. Why? The kids, upon reaching high school, are given the right to choose whatever they want to take. The problem is, most kids aged 14-16 don't have enough sense/maturity to see what they'll need. Hence, they (for the most part) slack off, only caring about "what's on the test". Also, this system leads to people taking "fun" classes, meaning that they have no specialization. Then, they complain when they can't get into university or college. Plus, this system teaches nothing of worth outside the cubicle--no social skills, no politics, no car maintenance, no firearm proficiency... ;)These systems are the worst, IMO.

In others, it's more rigid; especially in Europe. You get two or three streams (humanities, pure sciences and applied sciences) and you get five or six courses within those. You are stuck in your thread of choice until you graduate, more or less. You're extremely specialized. However, you have no real grasp of information lying outside your stream. Those systems are the second-worst, again IMO.

Finally, there are what I call the "open-classroom" systems. The only philosophy which reasonably approaches this concept, which I'll explain shortly, is Montessori. This idea, basically, is that there is no school. Well, maybe not that radical. There's no FIXED school. The students, guided (NOT TAUGHT) by a facilitator, are basically left to their own devices. They are presented with a series of problems; each student is fully able to operate individually or as a group, to move wherever he/she wishes, to talk to whoever they wish, to discover at their own pace. Of course, material is presented to them, but only when they master the previous challenges. No formal testing; only peer and guide evaluation "on the job" just like IRL. The kids get a chance to attend debates, lectures, governement sessions, the like. Basically, they operate in their environment, as IRL, learning through experience about social skills, cultire, language, etc...If they screw up, they're reprimanded. Corporal punishment is best--you don't make the same mistake twice. The only flaw in this program is that there is no possible instructor good enough to run it. It's impossible. Montessori operates a bit like that; except that it's in a classroom setting, and the learning is structured, not fluid.


So that's the education problem for high school. All the pricks who go into grade 9, however, have experienced bad parenting. We live in a time of super-busy moms and dads, on-the-go families and little outdoor time. Oh, and I neglected to mention an all-pervasive media. Parents need to stop being so loose with their kids, trying to be their firends. Discipline is key. Parents need to teach their kids morals, ethics and values, and good habits too. And we need to make sure everyone knows who shot Lincoln and Kennedy, and about the government. After all, isn't that where the tax money goes?

More on other social problems later.

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

urban america has a lot of problems
illegal immigration
-unemployment
-racial unrest
-poor schools
-poor people

and a culture that shuns the police that try to save them...

Fixed 4 U

Its not the illegals fault that crossing the border is easy. Its quite ironic that the US has one of the biggest dept. of defense yet it seems to be a challenge to stop unarmed illegals crossing on foot or car.

That's what you were talking about.

It seems each side were talking about different things.

FEOS wrote:

BN wrote:

FEOS wrote:

School should be about education, not socialization.

u can do both, we needit. I received both education (a damn good one) and socialisation at school.

socialisation through school sports, the arts, religeon (if thats ur thing) etc

I think if you read succeeding posts, you'll see that we're talking about as part of the curriculum, not as part of normal interaction between kids.

yeah, sorry, i had all these things at school. compulsory Saturday morning sport, getting involved in the school plays (was mainly to meet girls), religeon, compulsory volunteer work, peer group involvement.

FEOS wrote:

ZombieVampire! wrote:

That's what you were talking about.

It seems each side were talking about different things.

We were talking about schools being responsible for socialization, were we not?

Yes, but you'll notice I earlier said that it oughtn't be part of the curriculum.