Icleos
Member
+101|7033
Take a look at this article:



Deployment of aircraft carrier a US 'reminder' to Iran, says Gates

The US defence secretary, Robert Gates, said yesterday the deployment of a second aircraft carrier to the Gulf could serve as a "reminder" to Iran of American resolve to defend its interests in the region.

Gates denied the arrival of a new carrier represented an escalation, pointing out that US naval strength in the Gulf rises and falls constantly with routine naval deployments, but it comes at a time of heightened rhetoric from Washington about Iran's role in the Iraqi insurgency.

In the next few days US officers in Baghdad are expected to mount a display of recently-made Iranian arms alleged to have been seized from insurgents.

CBS News reported the Pentagon has ordered commanders to explore new options for attacking Iran and that the state department was formulating an ultimatum calling on Iran to stop arms smuggling into Iraq. The reports were denied by US officials.

In the past few days senior administration officials have made a series of pointed remarks about the Iranian role in Iraq. Gates himself claimed: "What the Iranians are doing is killing American servicemen and women inside Iraq."

During a visit to Mexico the defence secretary was asked if the carrier deployment was coordinated with the rhetoric from Washington. He replied: "I don't see it as an escalation. I think it could be seen, though, as a reminder."

The tough talk on Iran comes just before a meeting of ministers from the permanent five members of the UN security council and Germany to discuss incentives for Iran to suspend its work on uranium enrichment.

The focus on incentives reflects a realisation in London and Washington that there is not sufficient support in the Security Council for more sanctions against Iran. However, the new package is unlikely to differ from the one currently on the table, which includes economic incentives, help with the establishment of a nuclear energy programme based on technology that does not have military applications, and direct talks with the US on a range of strategic issues.

Security Council officials spoke yesterday in terms of the incentives being "refreshed" rather than enhanced. Few diplomatic observers believe they will have any more impact than the sanctions imposed so far.

Tehran insists its nuclear programme is intended for purely peaceful energy generation, and claims it is within its rights to pursue its development. Earlier this month Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad signalled his defiance of the Security Council by visiting the country's nuclear facility at Natanz to inspect a new upgraded centrifuge, the IR-2, capable of enriching uranium faster than the earlier model bought from Pakistan.

In official pictures Iran's defence minister, Mostafa Mohammad-Najjar, can be seen taking part in the tour. His participation was highlighted by some western officials, who argued it conflicted with Iran's insistence that the programme is for exclusively peaceful purposes.

Vincent Cannistraro, a former senior CIA official now a security analyst, said the conflicting signals coming from Washington reflected longstanding divisions in the Bush administration, that have not been resolved by the publication of a National Intelligence Estimate last year that Iran's weapons programme had been dormant since 2003. The NIE has been privately disowned by President Bush and Vice-President Dick Cheney, who still leads the remaining hawks in the administration.

"Cheney believes this administration has to take military action against Iran before it leaves office. Gates echoes the rhetoric publicly but he doesn't support Cheney's position," Cannistraro said.


Source 1: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/ma … eignpolicy
Source 2: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/2 … 99328.html
Source 3: (Pentagon denies report of new Iran war planning) http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jkd … t0TSV2c6wA

I don't want to jump to an conclusions or anything but this doesn't look good.  It sounds like "we" the United States have a motive to duke it out with Iran already.  All we need is just some bullshit reason to invade like what we did with Iraq.  Just another "Gulf of Tonkin" and that's it.

Last edited by Icleos (2008-05-06 21:45:26)

ATG
Banned
+5,233|6820|Global Command
It has been rumored since the day after Bush took office that we would attack Iran just before he left office. Leave a nice mess for the next guy.


Article date:
April 29, 2008

Not, exactly hot off the presses.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6820|Global Command
Iran is a problem.
Your point/question is echoed.
JahManRed
wank
+646|6918|IRELAND

Play ground bullies on a huge scale.

Get over your imperial aspirations and concentrate on fixing your own country before destroying yet another.

If America attacks Iran, it will convince me that the US military is a disease on this planet and should be treated as such.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6846
Basically, the US and every other western nation should mind their own fucking business. Attacking Iran would have nothing to do with the national security of the US, as such it would simply be an attack in American interests: i.e., in the interests of their economic and political control over large swathes of the middle east. An attack on Iran would be an extension of the American neo-imperialism that we have come to know all too well.

Western machinations in the middle east are the modern incarnation of this:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/China_imperialism_cartoon.jpg

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-05-07 02:26:22)

Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6872|SE London

A few months out of date, but sums up the Bush, Iran situation nicely:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree … 0/usa.iran
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6701|'Murka

Old news.

Carrier groups swap out in the PG all the time. There were three there at one point last year and nothing happened then, either.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6513|Escea

FEOS wrote:

Old news.

Carrier groups swap out in the PG all the time. There were three there at one point last year and nothing happened then, either.
Aye, though lots of people seem to think that because theres an aircraft carrier there, it means there will be an imminent attack.
13rin
Member
+977|6770

CameronPoe wrote:

Basically, the US and every other western nation should mind their own fucking business. Attacking Iran would have nothing to do with the national security of the US, as such it would simply be an attack in American interests: i.e., in the interests of their economic and political control over large swathes of the middle east. An attack on Iran would be an extension of the American neo-imperialism that we have come to know all too well.

Western machinations in the middle east are the modern incarnation of this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c … artoon.jpg
Uh.. Yea it does have to do with US security.  In case you've been asleep for the last several years, Iran has been supplying arms and men against my (pretty sure Ireland aint there) countrymen & comrads in Iraq.  Nuclear Iran?  Bad for everyone.  Get off the American neo-imperialism shit can.  It ain't fucking true no matter how many times you type it.

And Berster... And Editoral opinion doesn't even holds piss here in D&ST.

Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2008-05-07 08:23:13)

I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6940

DBBrinson1 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Basically, the US and every other western nation should mind their own fucking business. Attacking Iran would have nothing to do with the national security of the US, as such it would simply be an attack in American interests: i.e., in the interests of their economic and political control over large swathes of the middle east. An attack on Iran would be an extension of the American neo-imperialism that we have come to know all too well.

Western machinations in the middle east are the modern incarnation of this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c … artoon.jpg
Uh.. Yea it does have to do with US security.  Nuclear Iran?  Bad for everyone.  Get off the American neo-imperialism shit can.  It ain't fucking true no matter how many times you type it.

And Berster... And Editoral opinion doesn't even holds piss here in D&ST.
How nice to see you posting again...
13rin
Member
+977|6770

ghettoperson wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Basically, the US and every other western nation should mind their own fucking business. Attacking Iran would have nothing to do with the national security of the US, as such it would simply be an attack in American interests: i.e., in the interests of their economic and political control over large swathes of the middle east. An attack on Iran would be an extension of the American neo-imperialism that we have come to know all too well.

Western machinations in the middle east are the modern incarnation of this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c … artoon.jpg
Uh.. Yea it does have to do with US security.  Nuclear Iran?  Bad for everyone.  Get off the American neo-imperialism shit can.  It ain't fucking true no matter how many times you type it.

And Berster... And Editoral opinion doesn't even holds piss here in D&ST.
How nice to see you posting again...
Um ok....
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
jsnipy
...
+3,277|6813|...

FEOS wrote:

Old news.

Carrier groups swap out in the PG all the time. There were three there at one point last year and nothing happened then, either.
Major.League.Infidel
Make Love and War
+303|6768|Communist Republic of CA, USA

JahManRed wrote:

Play ground bullies on a huge scale.

Get over your imperial aspirations and concentrate on fixing your own country before destroying yet another.

If America attacks Iran, it will convince me that the US military is a disease on this planet and should be treated as such.
Is it the Military's fault or the Governments?
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7132|Cologne, Germany

DBBrinson1 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Basically, the US and every other western nation should mind their own fucking business. Attacking Iran would have nothing to do with the national security of the US, as such it would simply be an attack in American interests: i.e., in the interests of their economic and political control over large swathes of the middle east. An attack on Iran would be an extension of the American neo-imperialism that we have come to know all too well.

Western machinations in the middle east are the modern incarnation of this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c … artoon.jpg
Uh.. Yea it does have to do with US security.  In case you've been asleep for the last several years, Iran has been supplying arms and men against my (pretty sure Ireland aint there) countrymen & comrads in Iraq.  Nuclear Iran?  Bad for everyone.  Get off the American neo-imperialism shit can.  It ain't fucking true no matter how many times you type it.

And Berster... And Editoral opinion doesn't even holds piss here in D&ST.
every major western nation has made arms deliveries to undemocratic regimes under questionable circumstances.
And if the US hadn't invaded Iraq, none of your countrymen would be there in the first place.

We are all going to run out of oil at some point. Who are you to tell the iranians that they cannot use nuclear technology to power their country ?

Iran isn't a threat to anyone.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6891|132 and Bush

B.Schuss wrote:

Iran isn't a threat to anyone.
Everyone knows the Hezbo's work in tandem with Iran.  You were making good points until you fell victim to naivety. Make a case for it just being a regional issue (So keep the west out). But don't pretend to be unaware of the obvious supplier to these thugs.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7132|Cologne, Germany

Kmarion wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

Iran isn't a threat to anyone.
Everyone knows the Hezbo's work in tandem with Iran.  You were making good points until you fell victim to naivety. Make a case for it just being a regional issue (So keep the west out). But don't pretend to be unaware of the obvious supplier to these thugs.
...and everyone knows that Israel works in tandem with the US. What's your point ?

Again, Iran as a nation is not a threat to anyone. They don't have the military, logistical or economic capabilities to mount an attack on any of their neighbours, let alone a western nation.

The distance between the US and Iran is roughly 11,000 kilometers. Looking at the military "potential" of Iran, tell me you think they are a threat to you...

As you said, this is a regional issue. I don't know what the long-term strategic goals of the US in the middle east are, but if the plan was to stabilize the region, I don't think it's a success. Especially not considering the money and effort you have put into it.

A war against Iran would be pointless.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6846

DBBrinson1 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Basically, the US and every other western nation should mind their own fucking business. Attacking Iran would have nothing to do with the national security of the US, as such it would simply be an attack in American interests: i.e., in the interests of their economic and political control over large swathes of the middle east. An attack on Iran would be an extension of the American neo-imperialism that we have come to know all too well.

Western machinations in the middle east are the modern incarnation of this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c … artoon.jpg
Uh.. Yea it does have to do with US security.  In case you've been asleep for the last several years, Iran has been supplying arms and men against my (pretty sure Ireland aint there) countrymen & comrads in Iraq.  Nuclear Iran?  Bad for everyone.  Get off the American neo-imperialism shit can.  It ain't fucking true no matter how many times you type it.

And Berster... And Editoral opinion doesn't even holds piss here in D&ST.
Guess what? You shouldn't fucking be in Iraq! Being in Iraq has nothing to do with your national security either. It just puts you in a favourable position oil-wise against other predatory powers like Russia and China. It'll be US oil companies tapping the wells that sell the oil to China instead of French or Russian ones.

American neo-imperialism is true and only a blind man would think otherwise. It goes back as far as the annexation of the Phillipines and continues to this very day. Did the US not try and impose its will on Grenada, Nicaragua, Vietnam, Iraq, Iran, Cuba, Cambodia, Venezuela and countless others? Has it not got its troops stationed all across the world as any traditional empire would?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:US_military_bases_in_the_world_2007.PNG
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6891|132 and Bush

B.Schuss wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

Iran isn't a threat to anyone.
Everyone knows the Hezbo's work in tandem with Iran.  You were making good points until you fell victim to naivety. Make a case for it just being a regional issue (So keep the west out). But don't pretend to be unaware of the obvious supplier to these thugs.
...and everyone knows that Israel works in tandem with the US. What's your point ?
The point is threats are contrived indirectly as well.

B.Schuss wrote:

Again, Iran as a nation is not a threat to anyone. They don't have the military, logistical or economic capabilities to mount an attack on any of their neighbours, let alone a western nation.

The distance between the US and Iran is roughly 11,000 kilometers. Looking at the military "potential" of Iran, tell me you think they are a threat to you...

As you said, this is a regional issue. I don't know what the long-term strategic goals of the US in the middle east are, but if the plan was to stabilize the region, I don't think it's a success. Especially not considering the money and effort you have put into it.

A war against Iran would be pointless.
I don't want a war.. let me make that completely clear (again). Irans capable threat is not towards the US (@11,000 km), it's to our allies. Israel is capable of fending off Iran, but to elude to the fact Iran could not threaten Israel is absolutely untrue.

You switched gears and infact reinforced my point. Argue the right argument. (Regional issues)
Xbone Stormsurgezz
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6701|'Murka

CameronPoe wrote:

Guess what? You shouldn't fucking be in Iraq!
So two wrongs make a right?

CameronPoe wrote:

Being in Iraq has nothing to do with your national security either. It just puts you in a favourable position oil-wise against other predatory powers like Russia and China.
Strange that you don't notice your own contradiction here.

CameronPoe wrote:

American neo-imperialism is true and only a blind man would think otherwise. It goes back as far as the annexation of the Phillipines and continues to this very day. Did the US not try and impose its will on Grenada, Nicaragua, Vietnam, Iraq, Iran, Cuba, Cambodia, Venezuela and countless others? Has it not got its troops stationed all across the world as any traditional empire would?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:US_m … d_2007.PNG
And how many of those bases are there against the will of the host government? I believe Gitmo would be the only one. You seem to overlook the fact that all it would take for those bases to close would be for the host government to request it. That's a bit different than "imperialism", now isn't it?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6396|eXtreme to the maX
The US is always paddling up and down the Persian Gulf trying to provoke Iran.
There is nothing particularly new here - apart from the comments by various Generals and politicians.
Fuck Israel
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6872|SE London

DBBrinson1 wrote:

And Berster... And Editoral opinion doesn't even holds piss here in D&ST.
Lot of redundant "ands" in there...

I don't get it. I'm not trying to get across any facts or ideas, just opinion. Which is precisely what that article conveys. There is nothing wrong with opinion, provided it is not dressed up as fact, which I certainly have not done.

I just think that this does sum up Bush's attitude to the Middle East quite nicely.

So let's get this straight. A US intelligence report decides that Iran isn't as big a threat as once feared, and Bush decides this proves that, actually guys, I think you'll find it is. You've got to admire his steadfast refusal to acknowledge anything that doesn't complement his monochromatic world view. He's a true tunnel visionary. Awkward facts simply ricochet off him, like peashooter pellets bouncing harmlessly from an elephant's hide. He knows what he wants to believe, and he'll carry on believing it until it kills him.

Or us. Preferably us. He can always recant and say, "Oops, I was wrong" in his bunker. We'll be long gone by then, so what does he care?

Very little, in all probability. Bush is a bit like an unhinged iconoclast who has arbitrarily decided he doesn't believe in cows, and loudly and repeatedly denies their existence until you get so annoyed you drive him to a farm and show him a cow, and he shakes his head and continues to insist there's no such thing. At which point it moos indignantly, but he claims not to hear it, so in exasperation you drag him into the field and force him to touch the cow, and milk the cow, and ride around on the cow's back. And, finally, he dismounts and says, "That was fun'n'all, but dagnammit, I still don't believe in no cow." And then he shoots it in the head regardless, just to be on the safe side. Just so it isn't a threat.

Come to think of it, Bush is so vehemently fact-phobic, he might as well expand the war on terror into an outright war on reality, in which anything palpably authentic is the enemy. There'll be an "Axis of Real Stuff", encompassing everyone and everything from hairbands to dustmen, all of which Must Be Eliminated. "If it's provable, we can kill it." That's our new motto. God's on our side, because he can't be proved or disproved. He's one of our most valuable allies - the others being Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, ghosts, the bogeyman, and Bigfoot. Not to mention a vast fleet of UFOs, which the enemy won't have a chance of defeating because it never existed in the first place. Our armies won't be constrained by the laws of physics, and even if we lose, we'll simply say we won, even if we have to say it from an afterlife which doesn't exist either. That's the power of unwavering denial. It makes deities of us all.
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7132|Cologne, Germany

Kmarion wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

Kmarion wrote:


Everyone knows the Hezbo's work in tandem with Iran.  You were making good points until you fell victim to naivety. Make a case for it just being a regional issue (So keep the west out). But don't pretend to be unaware of the obvious supplier to these thugs.
...and everyone knows that Israel works in tandem with the US. What's your point ?
The point is threats are contrived indirectly as well.

B.Schuss wrote:

Again, Iran as a nation is not a threat to anyone. They don't have the military, logistical or economic capabilities to mount an attack on any of their neighbours, let alone a western nation.

The distance between the US and Iran is roughly 11,000 kilometers. Looking at the military "potential" of Iran, tell me you think they are a threat to you...

As you said, this is a regional issue. I don't know what the long-term strategic goals of the US in the middle east are, but if the plan was to stabilize the region, I don't think it's a success. Especially not considering the money and effort you have put into it.

A war against Iran would be pointless.
I don't want a war.. let me make that completely clear (again). Irans capable threat is not towards the US (@11,000 km), it's to our allies. Israel is capable of fending off Iran, but to elude to the fact Iran could not threaten Israel is absolutely untrue.

You switched gears and infact reinforced my point. Argue the right argument. (Regional issues)
well, then. I argue that whatever Iran's intentions are, those are regional affairs that should be handled by the nations that are actually situated in that region, with the help of the UN, if necessary.
The US has no business ( sic ) being in Iraq or Iran.

And why the US regards Israel as their ally, is beyond me. What has Israel done to deserve that status ?

There are only two reasons why there is such commotion in the middle east lately ( since WWII ) anyway:

1.) the creation of Israel against the will of the local arab population
2.) the way western nations have continously tried to stick their collective noses into the politics of that region, trying to enforce their economic interests

I guess it's only fair. We are simply paying the price for our foreign politics of the last couple of decades.

Let's put it this way:

Let's imagine for a second that it was all about oil, and your access to it. Now imagine what the oil price would be if you

a) hadn't burned millions, if not billions of tons of oil through military operations in the middle east in the last 20+ years
b) hadn't destabilized the region by conducting exactly those military operations

My point ? Oil is an internationally traded commodity. The market will ensure that everyone has access to it, because there are people who want to sell it, and others who want to buy it. You want it cheap ? Well, tough luck. We are running out of it, and that means the price is going up.

Don't like that ? Invest in research that will lead to technology which will make you independent from foreign oil.

And if oil really isn't the reason for your continued activities in that region, I don't know what is. Because there is really nothing else of interest there. Well, apart from some really cool culture, ruins, and other stuff that doesn't power anything.
JahManRed
wank
+646|6918|IRELAND

DBBrinson1 wrote:

And Berster... And Editoral opinion doesn't even holds piss here in D&ST.
The fabricated "evidence" shown to the UN and touted as fact and used to start the Iraqi invasion holds as much indisputable facts as a National Enquirer editorial. Any information being produced by the same fabricators "doesn't even holds piss here in D&ST."

Major.League.Infidel wrote:

JahManRed wrote:

Play ground bullies on a huge scale.

Get over your imperial aspirations and concentrate on fixing your own country before destroying yet another.

If America attacks Iran, it will convince me that the US military is a disease on this planet and should be treated as such.
Is it the Military fault or the Governments?
Its the government. The military do what the government tell them. I hold no ill will to US solders, they are doing their job, just the idiots who put their lives on the line for profits I can't have.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6911|London, England
Who gives a shit about Israel/Palestine tbh. Just let them both rot. Also, you guys already have the Saudi Arabian/Iraq Governments in your pocket. So it's not like you don't have an ally in the region. Why the fuck do you need an Ally in the Israel part of the region anyway?

Who gives a shit if Iran is a threat to Israel? It's not like they don't have the means to fight back on their own.

Does it all just boil down to the fact that you think Jews are gods chosen people?

And it also just boils down to the fact that certain people want another war to fill their coffers. They could care less about the Americans, the Israeli's, the Iranians etc..

Last edited by Mek-Stizzle (2008-05-08 04:55:04)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6396|eXtreme to the maX
Does it all just boil down to the fact that you think Jews are gods chosen people?
If so, how come God put all the oil underneath the Arabs?
Fuck Israel

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