DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6687|United States of America
Honestly, I doubt this is what the "control" groups had in mind when they were formed.

Bills seek punishment for use, display of fake weapons
NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Concerns that realistic-looking toy weapons are confusing police and threatening safety have led 15 states to try going beyond gun control and cracking down on fake firearms.

Officer Micheal Hoover knows a fair amount about guns as a sniper instructor for a Tennessee SWAT team. He recalls the night two years ago when a car pulled up beside him on a highway and the passenger waved what looked like an Uzi.

"It scared me," he said. "If anyone is in their right mind, I don't see how it wouldn't."

Hoover was off duty and called for police help. A 20-year-old man was charged with aggravated assault after police found a black plastic Uzi submachine gun under the car's passenger seat, but he was acquitted because jurors felt the officer should have been able to tell it was only a toy.

Lawmakers across the country are coming to a different conclusion, deciding that it is so hard to differentiate the toys from the fakes that public safety demands they take action.

Among those 15 states, seven bills limiting fake guns are pending this year and 21 have been enacted since 1990, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Some states have enacted or are considering multiple measures. They range from prohibiting imitation firearms in vehicles to banning the toys from convenience stores.

Tennessee lawmakers are considering a proposal by state Rep. John Deberry to make it a misdemeanor to intentionally display or expose "an imitation firearm in a public place in a threatening manner." Exceptions include justifiable self defense, lawful hunting, and displays such as a museum collection.
Full article

Some of this just goes without saying. The convenience store, in a vehicle...one shouldn't be playing with a toy gun in a situation like that where all too often it could have been real. I still think this law goes beyond what is needed---a common sense check; these punishments are fairly severe and the people I see being affected most by this would be kids. In my neighborhood, it's no big deal because no one would be mistaken for a gang member with a fully automatic firearm but in other places that seems more likely. Take a look at this last line of what I quoted, too: "Exceptions include justifiable self defense, lawful hunting, and displays such as a museum collection." <<< This is absurd, as there is no reason to carry a blasted fake firearm for either of the first two purposes and the third museum exception is odd because what kind of person has a museum of fake guns?
However, what do you think about this proposed legislation?
Sydney
2λчиэλ
+783|6845|Reykjavík, Iceland.
TBH, as much as I would like to own my own gun collection, I think gun control is great.  At least over here in Iceland. How many gun related crimes do we have here per year? Maybe one or two (Pop: 300,000).

Really seems to work flawlessly over here, but since the US is already flooded with guns (legal and illegal) I doubt any good will come from gun control.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6531|Global Command
Limited gun control is common sense.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6687|United States of America
I'm not arguing about that of actual weapons. In this topic, I am referring to the article and the banning of toy guns.
Steel
on_Target
+65|6319|Sarasota Fl
before reading this I thought the only thing worse than gun control was not having a gun at all,
It seems that is topped with having a fake plastic toy.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6493|Northern California
I know airsoft guns used in crimes where I live (and i thought throughout the country) would be prosecuted as if the guns were real.  Further, any LEO who cannot open a gun to check if it's loaded (and then know if it's an actionable firearm), should not be a LEO.  There are some seriously stupid cops who can't tell what type of gun they see with the exception of knowing if it's a semi-auto pistol or revolver, bolt action or magazine fed rifle.  This is an exceptionally difficult issue for AR owners in CA where a majority of cops don't know what makes an AR California legal.  Thankfully a ruling here says only firearms experts from the ATF can legally define what is legal and what isn't..which is actually good and bad...the cop just has to make the foolish arrest risking little and costing you gobs in attorney fees, but at least you'll be sent free once your rifle (if it wasn't destroyed yet) is found to be legit.

This article also reminds me of the "Hello Kitty" ARs that are out there.  Nothing wrong with them.  If kids can get a hold of them and use them, it's no different than them getting ordinary black or "normal" looking firearms and using them.  The fault isn't with the manufacturer (though the manufacturer needs a serious smack in the face), its with proper firearm storage.
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6470
I think that if you use a fake gun that does not have the orange tips or something else to obviously identify itself as fake that should count the same as using a real gun, since it is very hard to tell teh difference.
Hunter/Jumper
Member
+117|6356

ATG wrote:

Limited gun control is common sense.
Realistic Law Enforcementl which we all favor, would negate need for any gun control at all,

This is just poor government feigning effort.

Last edited by Hunter/Jumper (2008-05-04 11:15:33)

Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6407|North Carolina
Considering the fact that most fake guns are neon colors or have those orange tips, I don't see what the point of restricting the use of fake guns is, unless someone makes a fake gun designed to look real and is used in a crime as if it is real.  Under that kind of situation, then the severe punishments should be there, if the criminal does something like rape someone at gunpoint (since the gun would appear to be real and have the same coercive effect).

Last edited by Turquoise (2008-05-04 12:19:57)

Deadmonkiefart
Floccinaucinihilipilificator
+177|6708
self defense, lawful hunting, and displays such as a museum collection
Who the hell puts a toy gun in a museum collection?  How could one hunt with a toy gun? How would a toy gun be used in self defense? Who would be stupid enough to include this as part of the law?
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6407|North Carolina
Actually, there are replicas of older guns used in some collections, so I'm guessing that's actually a relevant clause.

EDIT: the other parts aren't though.

Last edited by Turquoise (2008-05-04 12:22:06)

Marinejuana
local
+415|6587|Seattle
i cant really see a problem with fake guns. i mean sure maybe they look scary, but uh, you could legally own a REAL uzi, and that would be your right. i could go around in a ninja costume wearing a gas mask and probably scare a lot more people, but is it a crime?

nevertheless, i think its stupid to have a fake gun. you only risk escalating a peaceful situation to a gun fight when u arent actually equipped. but i think its your right to put yourself in this idiotic situation, because you are free, and there are far worse things you could do to yourself and others while equipped like a typical person going about their day and making their commutes. the worst thing you could do is convince somebody to shoot at you with a real gun. youre pretty much just putting yourself at risk. as long as you can defend yourself in court for shooting a person because u were fooled by their gun replica, then there really isnt an issue, they have their personal freedom, and they can use it to put their own lives at risk if they choose.

maybe realistic replicas should be illegal to buy for folks under age 16-18. that way you dont risk impulsive or irresponsible kids' lives over something that they might be intelligent enough to avoid a few years down the road. but if they get to be an adult and they are still making terrible decisions like that, then who cares, thats natural selection, theyre gonna get shot, and the next generation of people might not be so careless.

Last edited by Marinejuana (2008-05-04 12:28:50)

Ganko_06
Laughter with an S
+167|6647|Camoran's Paradise

Turquoise wrote:

Considering the fact that most fake guns are neon colors or have those orange tips, I don't see what the point of restricting the use of fake guns is, unless someone makes a fake gun designed to look real and is used in a crime as if it is real.  Under that kind of situation, then the severe punishments should be there, if the criminal does something like rape someone at gunpoint (since the gun would appear to be real and have the same coercive effect).
A lot of people remove the red tip or paint the gun to look more realistic.  That was actually the case not too far from here in Memphis a little while back.  I small boy was waving and pointing a very realistic plastic gun at police.  Sadly they had to take him out...
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6407|North Carolina

Ganko_06 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Considering the fact that most fake guns are neon colors or have those orange tips, I don't see what the point of restricting the use of fake guns is, unless someone makes a fake gun designed to look real and is used in a crime as if it is real.  Under that kind of situation, then the severe punishments should be there, if the criminal does something like rape someone at gunpoint (since the gun would appear to be real and have the same coercive effect).
A lot of people remove the red tip or paint the gun to look more realistic.  That was actually the case not too far from here in Memphis a little while back.  I small boy was waving and pointing a very realistic plastic gun at police.  Sadly they had to take him out...
Maybe we could instead make it illegal to make a fake gun look realistic.  The punishment should be very minor though, like a small fine.
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|6716|US
How about this, it depends on how you use it!  If you want to play airsoft at a designated field, it shouldn't be illegal to have an airsoft rifle that looks realistic.  If you try to rob a store with one, expect to get arrested or shot!

I'm sick and tired of this BS.  The VAST majority of toy guns will only ever be used in games.  I like my realistic airsoft stuff, and so do my friends who own them.  If some idiot wants to threaten and point a fake gun at a cop...well, what did you think was going to happen?
Of course it is sad when a kid does this and gets killed, but is it the fault of the toy gun manufacturer?

Last edited by RAIMIUS (2008-05-04 15:21:20)

Deadmonkiefart
Floccinaucinihilipilificator
+177|6708

Ganko_06 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Considering the fact that most fake guns are neon colors or have those orange tips, I don't see what the point of restricting the use of fake guns is, unless someone makes a fake gun designed to look real and is used in a crime as if it is real.  Under that kind of situation, then the severe punishments should be there, if the criminal does something like rape someone at gunpoint (since the gun would appear to be real and have the same coercive effect).
A lot of people remove the red tip or paint the gun to look more realistic.  That was actually the case not too far from here in Memphis a little while back.  I small boy was waving and pointing a very realistic plastic gun at police.  Sadly they had to take him out...
Removing the orange tip is illegal.
kylef
Gone
+1,352|6495|N. Ireland
I see this as a good thing...it can only be beneficial. The whole 'orange tip' failed, it seems, so why not get more drastic? It's only going to be beneficial.

Last edited by kylef (2008-05-04 16:06:36)

Ender2309
has joined the GOP
+470|6573|USA

PBAsydney wrote:

TBH, as much as I would like to own my own gun collection, I think gun control is great.  At least over here in Iceland. How many gun related crimes do we have here per year? Maybe one or two (Pop: 300,000).

Really seems to work flawlessly over here, but since the US is already flooded with guns (legal and illegal) I doubt any good will come from gun control.
holy crap, my freaking city is bigger than your country.


also, i disagree with you.
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|6716|US

kylef wrote:

I see this as a good thing...it can only be beneficial. The whole 'orange tip' failed, it seems, so why not get more drastic? It's only going to be beneficial.
Actually, the "orange tip" works pretty well...except when people paint over it or remove it.  Some people are going to be idiots, it is a fact of life.

I painted over the orange tip on my airsoft rifle, but I don't go waiving it around outside of airsoft fields!

Note: it is illegal for a dealer to remove the orange tip.  It is usually fine for the buyer to do so.
Steel
on_Target
+65|6319|Sarasota Fl

RAIMIUS wrote:

...except when people paint over it or remove it.  Some people are going to be idiots, it is a fact of life.

I painted over the orange tip on my ..........
LOL, they teach you that at the Academy?
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6544|Texas - Bigger than France
I think the proposed law is vague enough to be selectively ineffectual.  Too much opinion will be involved in what's "displaying" or "threatening".

LOL - fake guns can be used for lawful hunting?
Marinejuana
local
+415|6587|Seattle

Pug wrote:

I think the proposed law is vague enough to be selectively ineffectual.  Too much opinion will be involved in what's "displaying" or "threatening".

LOL - fake guns can be used for lawful hunting?
lol, but only if its a fake gun chambered in .243 or greater.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6544|Texas - Bigger than France
Maybe when I pistol whip the deer with my Mac-10 squirt gun the plastic shards will embed in the deer's neck it'll bleed out.
chittydog
less busy
+586|6837|Kubra, Damn it!

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

ATG wrote:

Limited gun control is common sense.
Realistic Law Enforcementl which we all favor, would negate need for any gun control at all,

This is just poor government feigning effort.
ATG had it right, maybe he just had his wording wrong. The 2nd amendment doesn't mention guns specifically, it says "arms". Maybe what he should have said was "limited weapon control is common sense", which I agree with 100%. No one needs a freaking grenade or RPG or a bomb for self defense, and most of us agree that these things should be illegal. How would you like your neighbor to have a .50 mounted on porch, or a nuke? There have to be some limits to the arms we can carry, but they need to be sensible.
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|6716|US

Steel wrote:

RAIMIUS wrote:

...except when people paint over it or remove it.  Some people are going to be idiots, it is a fact of life.

I painted over the orange tip on my ..........
LOL, they teach you that at the Academy?
No one taught me that.  I realized that orange chunks of metal, wandering through the forest, arouse suspicion during airsoft games...
We coordinate with the security forces squadron and only play at designated fields.  So, the LEOs know who we are, and what we are doing.  We also have strict rules, if we are confronted by a confused LEO (i.e. calmly lay down the airsoft rifle, keeping your hands visible, and explain what you are doing!).

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