how about you give me 1billion in exhange for one tritaniumVolatile wrote:
Naw, i couldn't give anyone my accounts, but i could give my isk away.
Send me any amount over 1b and i'll send 5x back kinda deal wink wink...
That's not true. We have a fleet backbone made up of 3 day old rifter pilots, and training a T2 drake is like 2 months at most.Shocking wrote:
Not to mention that it takes at least a year to become remotely useful in pvp.
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the 'learning curve' isn't really that ridiculous. i mean anyone with a penchant for basic math and a geeky predilection for playing games that are basically one big math-spreadsheet can learn EVE very quickly. what makes learning the game difficult, on the other hand, is the completely non-intuitive, shitty UI, and an even shittier tutorial system. the gameplay itself is not rocket science (pun not intended). just the game has no way of intuitively teaching you how to play: the ui sucks, the tutorials suck, therefore you have to rely on patchy advice from russian dudes in a chat window. it's hopeless to that degree.
also the more annoying thing about the game to the new player is the 'patience curve', not the learning curve. in other mmo's you can get shit done by your own effort, i.e. you can grind for 16 hours a day and effect all the transformation and improvement in your character. in eve you basically have to hand them $100 in subscription money before you can even get to where you want to go - how much time, effort, skill and whatever you're willing to invest is meaningless. the game basically says "okay, go away for 6 months and then come back". that's just shitty for a new player at this late-stage in the game, coming up against guys with 5+ years of training points. i know you guys are going to complain and say "no, a new player with a 2-week old frigate can beat a guy in a titan...!" but come on. the fact the whole game feels dictated by 'time with paying subscription' makes it feel like a bit of a scam.
although of course, conversely, to someone that has invested so much time and money in the game over the years, the game is going to seem OMFGAWSMBBQSAUCE. but to that extent, i'd say you're a little bias, no?
also the more annoying thing about the game to the new player is the 'patience curve', not the learning curve. in other mmo's you can get shit done by your own effort, i.e. you can grind for 16 hours a day and effect all the transformation and improvement in your character. in eve you basically have to hand them $100 in subscription money before you can even get to where you want to go - how much time, effort, skill and whatever you're willing to invest is meaningless. the game basically says "okay, go away for 6 months and then come back". that's just shitty for a new player at this late-stage in the game, coming up against guys with 5+ years of training points. i know you guys are going to complain and say "no, a new player with a 2-week old frigate can beat a guy in a titan...!" but come on. the fact the whole game feels dictated by 'time with paying subscription' makes it feel like a bit of a scam.
although of course, conversely, to someone that has invested so much time and money in the game over the years, the game is going to seem OMFGAWSMBBQSAUCE. but to that extent, i'd say you're a little bias, no?
Last edited by Uzique (2012-04-11 09:00:34)
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
train two days for a rifter and basic mods and you're useful as a tackler.Shocking wrote:
Learning curve is ridiculous as well. I played the game for 5-6 months and I really understood only a tiny bit of how everything worked. Not to mention that it takes at least a year to become remotely useful in pvp.Uzique wrote:
from the perspective of someone that has tried about 11 eve trials, i can safely say that the UI is - in comparison to most other mmo's - total fucking suckage. it's a major thing that puts new players off the game. it's indecipherable. the text fails and sucks miserably (or it did for me, anyway, total squint-o-vision). it's also ugly looking and makes you feel like you're playing an elaborate version of microsoft excel, or some other part of the office suite. furthermore the way your ui interacts with combat, i.e. click one missile button and leave it on, is totally fucking boring and not really very engaging at all. as someone that has tried at eve many times, loving its macro-gameplay concepts and design principles, i can safely say that the ui is shite.
note that remotely useful does not mean yes you will survive because no amount of training can give you that. you WILL die. horribly and often. embrace it.
@uzique depends on your corp. there's always a place for young pilots in frigs. sure they aren't going to be soloing a battlecruiser any time soon but so long as they survive long enough to get a warp scramble point on the target, they've done their job.
trust me when you're trying to balance gun tracking vs optimal range (esp. if you're kiting a target at range), keeping an eye on your cap, keeping an eye on local for spikes, keeping an eye on the overview for capital ship hotdrops, juggling the heat on your mods so you get the most out of them before they burn out etc etc... you get thankful that the ui doesn't require you to do more than just click on gun to shoot.
however otherwise i agree.
Last edited by Spark (2012-04-11 16:34:18)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
really the main issue with this game isn't the ui. it's the fact that the solo pve content is so fucking dull.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Agreed, there isn't really much of a campaign of any sort, and a lot of gamers today like to be able to get adequately associated with the game before being thrown into danger.
"Raise the flag high! Let the degenerates know who comes to claim their lives this day!"
I only like missioning when in a group, and even more when we are in a group of little ships. Doing it by yourself might be ok for the wallet, but dull for the brain. Did some incursions for the other day too, and the money alone is enough for me to run them I think, but I still prefer to pew pew in 0.0
yeah it's decent in groups. Incursions can be fun as well... but a lot of that is because much of the skill of incursions translates directly to/from pvp.
in terms of pure adrenaline rush, skill and satisfaction, basically nothing beats a straight up fight in eve. especially one where you don't expect to survive but somehow do.
in terms of pure adrenaline rush, skill and satisfaction, basically nothing beats a straight up fight in eve. especially one where you don't expect to survive but somehow do.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
or when something shows up on the field you REALLY weren't expecting.
Most def, its mad fun just being in a zealot as part of a sexy ahac gang and just tearing through an enemy fleet in one bad ass laser light show, when all of a sudden... RAPIER DE-CLOAK!
"Raise the flag high! Let the degenerates know who comes to claim their lives this day!"
not so mad fun if you cross out rapier and add falcon.
then you're just "sigh, run away guys"
(i'm thinking about buying myself a falcon ftr :trollface:)
then you're just "sigh, run away guys"
(i'm thinking about buying myself a falcon ftr :trollface:)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
falcon fleet go!
i accidentally brought my rook to a falcon fleet once :welp:
managed to run away though
managed to run away though
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Omen navy issues with stabber fleets backed by tracking linking onerios is one of the sickest fleets ever.
"Raise the flag high! Let the degenerates know who comes to claim their lives this day!"
yea!RTHKI wrote:
omen fleet yea
again, this is only relevant if you have invested a decent amount of time into the game.Adams_BJ wrote:
or when something shows up on the field you REALLY weren't expecting.
there is such a gigantic disconnect between the new player experience and the long-term player experience, they are almost like two different games.
new players: fly around in npc/empire space (whatever it's called nowadays) killing little red-crosshair shaped gnats, over and over. done that? warp somewhere else to talk to yet another 2d portrait of a guy through a long, generic quest narrative that you don't care about. fly somewhere else. oh! this time you have to simply pick up a 2d portrait of an item, drag and drop it, and then fly to another 2d portrait of a guy that will give you 5 pages of lengthy-meaningless dialogue! no red gnats involved this time! which is a good job because all the adrenaline from that last red-crosshair-gnat fight - orbit at 2500m, click only gun, go afk - was simply overwhelming! don't worry, new guy, only 2 more months of this until you can take part in meaningful fights and have something pretty to look at! did we mention that if you get bored of questing you can go attach yourself to a space-rock for 15 minutes and read a book?
the entry-level game is one of the most boring computer gaming experiences i have ever had. i had more fun playing skyrim when the first loaded-instance quest hub crashed every time i tried to enter it. i had more fun looking at the log-in screen for world of warcraft when the servers were down (there's more going on visually there than in eve online, that's for sure). playing eve online and being told you can "become a tackler or frig pilot" for a corporate is like being told you have a terminal illness with 2 months left to live: you're expected to go and lie somewhere for a while, 'enjoy' what there is of the dull grey tedium that makes up your daily life, and all you really have to look forward to is dying.
the sad thing is that the only condolences that the mature eve players have for the newguys are the equivalent of a fucking 'get well soon' card.
Last edited by Uzique (2012-04-12 07:40:13)
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
yeah so you're just agreeing with us - solo pve is dull as dishwater.
there really is nothing stopping you finding a corp that goes newbie pvp and being given free ships to go and get blown up at your leisure. you're coming from the viewpoint that you need to survive/kill in pvp to have fun or even be successful. you don't. it doesn't matter how long you've been playing, you will die. constantly.
in the last week i've flown with two day old characters in nullsec pvp fleets who have acquitted themselves more than well.
again, i realise this is dependent on finding a good corp who is willing to let you lose ships and in all likelihood *give* you ships, but they exist. adams and i are part of one. it all comes back to that main problem.
solo pve in this game is shit.
---
ftr the "unexpected" thing adams was talking about was a carrier undocking straight into the middle of our fight. that was... unexpected.
but we killed the target and got out alive (just, in my case, given that almost all my modules were burnt out and i was losing my shields rapidly), so hey ho
there really is nothing stopping you finding a corp that goes newbie pvp and being given free ships to go and get blown up at your leisure. you're coming from the viewpoint that you need to survive/kill in pvp to have fun or even be successful. you don't. it doesn't matter how long you've been playing, you will die. constantly.
in the last week i've flown with two day old characters in nullsec pvp fleets who have acquitted themselves more than well.
again, i realise this is dependent on finding a good corp who is willing to let you lose ships and in all likelihood *give* you ships, but they exist. adams and i are part of one. it all comes back to that main problem.
solo pve in this game is shit.
---
ftr the "unexpected" thing adams was talking about was a carrier undocking straight into the middle of our fight. that was... unexpected.
but we killed the target and got out alive (just, in my case, given that almost all my modules were burnt out and i was losing my shields rapidly), so hey ho
Last edited by Spark (2012-04-12 07:59:02)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
again, again again... you are vastly underestimating the disconnect between old and new player experience. why do you think some fresh new guy is going to give a shit about an ongoing corp-feud and will be 'excited' by the prospect of kamikaze'ing ships in giant fights? half of the fun of eve is community shit-talking, feuds, the 'politics' and sandbox elements that make it a unique gameplay experience. a new player fresh into the game has absolutely zero invested in all that. the gameplay itself is dire. the first few months of play for a new player consist of pve gruel and porridge or being sent in to big fights to die a lot and marvel at people who have invested much more time/$$$. the gameplay is boring and the entire game denies the player any self-determination, i.e. any way to earn anything through his own effort and personal investment. it's a complete turn-off. this is why EVE will never become anything more than a niche-sandbox for the most specialist type of pc gamer / math nerd / people that likes juggling two jobs.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
not even big fights. like what i'm talking about are 4 or 5 man gangs. and it's no corp feuding - you go into space, shoot anything that isn't friendly.
look, i'm agreeing with you, i just think that the basis of the problem is different. the core mechanics of the game are more or less fine. more complex and they would play havoc with the already incredibly complex task of actually fighting. but pve, mining - they're some of the most brainless, dullest activities you will ever have in a game.
look, i'm agreeing with you, i just think that the basis of the problem is different. the core mechanics of the game are more or less fine. more complex and they would play havoc with the already incredibly complex task of actually fighting. but pve, mining - they're some of the most brainless, dullest activities you will ever have in a game.
Last edited by Spark (2012-04-12 08:01:32)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
i agree with you that i'm speaking from someone who has been playing for years (on and off, depending on how much pve i have to do), but i literally created a second account two days ago. and already i could feasibly make myself useful in a small gang that our corp flies on a daily basis had this character been focussed on combat.
Last edited by Spark (2012-04-12 08:03:26)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
and they are the staple of most new gamers' experiences in EVE.
which is why, no matter how shiny they make the game, it'll never take-off
which is why, no matter how shiny they make the game, it'll never take-off
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
i'm not disagreeing. it's no coincidene that on two previous occasions i've become stuck in empire, forced to do pve, gotten bored and unsubbed - only for next year's fanfest to roll around, look at all the amazing ideas, concepts and events going on, read up and got hooked into the metagame again and then resubbed.
hopefully i'll last this time because i've actually found a decent corp with good people and good pvp access.
hopefully i'll last this time because i've actually found a decent corp with good people and good pvp access.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
i've done that about 11 times. read awesome metagame stuff; hear an awesome anecdote; think about the potential of the game if only i stuck with it. then realise that subbing the (already-premium) price to EVE for 3 months is a bit like paying a lot of money with the invested promise of one day having the return of fun. then realising that's not what a computer game is. that's like an IRL ponzi scheme. with similar success rates.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
yeah but you're starting from scratch each time, which is obvs an issue. nonetheless i'm mostly agreeing with you but the fact remains that this is almost the only game i have any inclination to play whatsoever now.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman