Pages: 1 2

 

2008-04-29 20:11:43
simmy.uk
Member
+117|6827
Is Christianity a load of bullshit, or is there any sense behind all of it?
Met a ton of christians recently and it kinda made me think about it.

Always held a scientific point of view that the world evolved over a long period of time and that 'god' didn't create everything in 7 days. That we evolved from apes, god didn't create humans....the adam and eve thing and such.

OK that might be the BS part of it, and perhaps the bit about Noahs ark.....but is there any truth in the other stuff? Is that even possible too? Can you be christian and hold a darwin view?

If I can be arsed I might read some of the bible to help make sense of all of this.
thoughts?
2008-04-29 20:16:10
imortal
Member
+240|7054|Austin, TX
Well, some think the story of the flood goes back thousands of years of years ago. 

http://www.essortment.com/all/noahfloodepic_rmtq.htm
2008-04-29 20:18:36
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6519|North Tonawanda, NY
The stories in the bible are just that:  stories.
2008-04-29 20:19:25
jsnipy
...
+3,277|6911|...

I think people don't have an open mind or imagination when they talk about the bible (especially Christians). 7 days probably does not mean 7 days as we know it. If science proves life came from the sea and evolved over time, why can't that be the method of creation? If i see a cake on the counter and proved to you it was made form sugar, flour, eggs, etc and baked in an oven, does that mean it was not created?

Having said that I believe Christianity is just one of many interfaces to explain the power of the universe. The bible attempts to convey ideas in terms common people might understand. You have to consider everything as whole. No one people holds the answer just as one facet of your being is not your existence in its entirety.

Last edited by jsnipy (2008-04-29 20:21:32)

2008-04-29 20:19:41
Drakef
Cheeseburger Logicist
+117|6751|Vancouver
Christians can fall into a number of camps relating to the stories of the Bible (as you have pointed to). Some insist that every story actually occurred (and that any evidence against the Bible is false), while others feel they are merely allegories that teach one how to live life. Some actually do hold Darwinian views.

Personally, I would declare it all bullshit, but there has been enough discussion on that, and that's enough.
2008-04-29 20:21:28
argo4
Stand and Deliver
+86|6322|United States
I gave up on christianity like 5 years ago, when i was 12. To me ,a lot of  Christianity is bullshit, but if you ignore the parts that contradict science, there's probably some good lessons there. You have to keep in mind that at its inception it was a "product" aimed at the poor and opressed under the Roman Empire. So obviously it's gonna be idealistic and gonna try to view things the best way (e.g. your life sucks now, but it will be better after you die). That's what kills Christianity for me--it just isn't real. The real world is cruel, good people often lead shitty lives and the bad often enjoy life most.

Last edited by argo4 (2008-04-29 20:26:30)

2008-04-29 21:44:05
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6836|Chicago, IL
much of the bible is metaphorical, not literal.
2008-04-29 21:47:08
SEREMAKER
BABYMAKIN EXPERT √
+2,187|6957|Mountains of NC

jsnipy wrote:

I think people don't have an open mind or imagination when they talk about the bible (especially Christians). 7 days probably does not mean 7 days as we know it. If science proves life came from the sea and evolved over time, why can't that be the method of creation? If i see a cake on the counter and proved to you it was made form sugar, flour, eggs, etc and baked in an oven, does that mean it was not created?

Having said that I believe Christianity is just one of many interfaces to explain the power of the universe. The bible attempts to convey ideas in terms common people might understand. You have to consider everything as whole. No one people holds the answer just as one facet of your being is not your existence in its entirety.
yeah what he said
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/17445/carhartt.jpg
2008-04-29 22:01:28
imortal
Member
+240|7054|Austin, TX

SenorToenails wrote:

The stories in the bible are just that:  stories.
I disagree.  Not entirely, just mostly.  Every culture has a creation myth.  And the Bible has one.  But there is a lot more in the Bible.  It may very well be a colleciton of stories.  But there are also instructions in the Bible.

Now, I am not just talking about some metaphysical instructions for the saving of your soul.  I am talking about practical instructions, perhaps a bit dated.  Instructions for the safe preperation of food.  Of what kind of dangerous communicable diseases were common at the time, how to recognize them, and what to do with the infected.  Instructions which provide valid, (and since, proven) instructions for people to live together as a society more advanced than a basic clan. 

And then there ARE the stories for your soul.  Everyone looks for meaning in life.  Even if you just read the stories and think about how they apply to modern life, to living with each other, with ideas of how you should live your life; if all you do read read a really cool quote, and wonder how that might work in your own life.  Just sitting and pondering the human condition through the stories posed.  At that point do the stories matter if they are fiction?  Whether they are completely made up, or a factual accounting of history, or something in the very large expanse between those other two postions?

The Bible has what meaning you put into it, and it has the meaning you pull from it. 

Ok, well, that is my opinion at least.
2008-04-29 23:29:06
twiistaaa
Member
+87|7057|mexico

S.Lythberg wrote:

much of the bible is metaphorical, not literal.
said in 2008

"the bible is the literal truth" - said by every christian from 300 AD to 1900 AD... how miraculous that its mostly metaphorical all of a sudden and it has lost "much of" its  previous literal 'truths' to science and common sense.

i like how the meanings and interpretations seem to up date, while the words never do. god works in mysterious ways i suppose.
2008-04-29 23:43:31
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6836|Chicago, IL

twiistaaa wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

much of the bible is metaphorical, not literal.
said in 2008

"the bible is the literal truth" - said by every christian from 300 AD to 1900 AD... how miraculous that its mostly metaphorical all of a sudden and it has lost "much of" its  previous literal 'truths' to science and common sense.

i like how the meanings and interpretations seem to up date, while the words never do. god works in mysterious ways i suppose.
it was never meant to be taken as literal truth, hence the debate since the middle ages about it's exact translation.

The bible is a collection of both historical accounts and morality tales, mostly the latter.  I think the people who want to see it as literal truth are those who simply cannot comprehend the complexity and randomness of our universe, and look to the bible to give them an easy answer.

Some people find it comforting to think that they are a special member of a special race in a universe created just for them, and can't face the truth that their whole existence, and the history humanity itself, is confined to an incredibly small piece of space and time.

(I however, find it incredibly fascinating, and more than a little humbling)
https://www.twosteptidewater.com/photo-album/universe.jpg

The only issue I have is when their obstinacy impedes progress, as it did in the middle ages, and is starting to do again.

Also, keep in mind that things that were once accepted as fact in the scientific community are now regarded as idiotic and obsolete (see heliocentric and spontaneous generation), as humanity as a whole gets smarter (or at least some of us), our view of things is bound to change.


My point is, the bible was meant to be a guide for living, and a collection of tales from across the middle east for historical record, not a piece of scientific literature (It wasn't peer reviewed, you can't cite it!) or an excuse for ignorance, violence, and hatred.

Last edited by S.Lythberg (2008-04-29 23:52:10)

2008-04-29 23:52:00
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6519|North Tonawanda, NY

imortal wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

The stories in the bible are just that:  stories.
I disagree.  Not entirely, just mostly.  Every culture has a creation myth.  And the Bible has one.  But there is a lot more in the Bible.  It may very well be a colleciton of stories.  But there are also instructions in the Bible.

Now, I am not just talking about some metaphysical instructions for the saving of your soul.  I am talking about practical instructions, perhaps a bit dated.  Instructions for the safe preperation of food.  Of what kind of dangerous communicable diseases were common at the time, how to recognize them, and what to do with the infected.  Instructions which provide valid, (and since, proven) instructions for people to live together as a society more advanced than a basic clan. 

And then there ARE the stories for your soul.  Everyone looks for meaning in life.  Even if you just read the stories and think about how they apply to modern life, to living with each other, with ideas of how you should live your life; if all you do read read a really cool quote, and wonder how that might work in your own life.  Just sitting and pondering the human condition through the stories posed.  At that point do the stories matter if they are fiction?  Whether they are completely made up, or a factual accounting of history, or something in the very large expanse between those other two postions?

The Bible has what meaning you put into it, and it has the meaning you pull from it. 

Ok, well, that is my opinion at least.
Yes, I really should have worded that differently.  My main point was not that the information in the bible is necessarily wrong or bad, but that it's stories should not be taken literally.

I suppose I was directly addressing the OP's points of Noah's Ark, Genesis, etc...
2008-04-30 00:01:59
Morpheus
This shit still going?
+508|6388|The Mitten

SenorToenails wrote:

imortal wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

The stories in the bible are just that:  stories.
I disagree.  Not entirely, just mostly.  Every culture has a creation myth.  And the Bible has one.  But there is a lot more in the Bible.  It may very well be a colleciton of stories.  But there are also instructions in the Bible.

Now, I am not just talking about some metaphysical instructions for the saving of your soul.  I am talking about practical instructions, perhaps a bit dated.  Instructions for the safe preperation of food.  Of what kind of dangerous communicable diseases were common at the time, how to recognize them, and what to do with the infected.  Instructions which provide valid, (and since, proven) instructions for people to live together as a society more advanced than a basic clan. 

And then there ARE the stories for your soul.  Everyone looks for meaning in life.  Even if you just read the stories and think about how they apply to modern life, to living with each other, with ideas of how you should live your life; if all you do read read a really cool quote, and wonder how that might work in your own life.  Just sitting and pondering the human condition through the stories posed.  At that point do the stories matter if they are fiction?  Whether they are completely made up, or a factual accounting of history, or something in the very large expanse between those other two postions?

The Bible has what meaning you put into it, and it has the meaning you pull from it. 

Ok, well, that is my opinion at least.
Yes, I really should have worded that differently.  My main point was not that the information in the bible is necessarily wrong or bad, but that it's stories should not be taken literally.

I suppose I was directly addressing the OP's points of Noah's Ark, Genesis, etc...
Ok, so is this another "Is there a god?" thread, or how some people manage to screw up the interpretation of the Bible? I'm confused.

edit:
simmy: try looking beyond Genesis. It's basically a "format" (if you will). Christianity (really) starts with the boooks after that (Exodus, Dueteronomy... etc.)

Last edited by Morpheus1229 (2008-04-30 00:04:39)

EE (hats
2008-04-30 00:10:21
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6519|North Tonawanda, NY

Morpheus1229 wrote:

Ok, so is this another "Is there a god?" thread, or how some people manage to screw up the interpretation of the Bible? I'm confused.
I didn't even mention the word 'god' at all in this thread.  How can you jump to that conclusion?
2008-04-30 00:12:43
nukchebi0
Пушкин, наше всё
+387|6713|New Haven, CT
Christianity implies God to most people.
2008-04-30 00:19:46
Morpheus
This shit still going?
+508|6388|The Mitten

SenorToenails wrote:

Morpheus1229 wrote:

Ok, so is this another "Is there a god?" thread, or how some people manage to screw up the interpretation of the Bible? I'm confused.
I didn't even mention the word 'god' at all in this thread.  How can you jump to that conclusion?
I meant it as a general topic idea, you're right, I don't think it was mentioned specifically.

I was merely trying to ascertain if this was, in fact, a discussion, or a shit-flinging contest.
EE (hats
2008-04-30 00:22:43
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6519|North Tonawanda, NY

Morpheus1229 wrote:

I was merely trying to ascertain if this was, in fact, a discussion, or a shit-flinging contest.
I'm open to discussion.  Religion is a curious topic for me.
2008-04-30 00:29:11
Morpheus
This shit still going?
+508|6388|The Mitten

SenorToenails wrote:

Morpheus1229 wrote:

I was merely trying to ascertain if this was, in fact, a discussion, or a shit-flinging contest.
I'm open to discussion.  Religion is a curious topic for me.
Ok. I wasn't directing anything at anyone; it's after 3am for me, and I probably shouldn't be in D&ST at this hour.

As for me, I'd say that I'm a Christian, but maybe not like the one that springs to mind (I haven't read the entire Bible, swear more than is good for me, know my way around a party... etc). I'm following the first two greatest commandments, and working on the rest.
EE (hats
2008-04-30 02:42:51
c14u53w172
Member
+31|6387|tomania

simmy.uk wrote:

That we evolved from apes
we didn't evolve from apes, we have the same ancestors. that's a big difference.
2008-04-30 03:01:12
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6944
Most of the stories in the bible are exaggerated explosions of relatively mundane and completely earthly events. There is no such thing as magic. There is a small kernel of historical value in each story but garnering anything accurate from them is not gonna happen.
2008-04-30 03:13:25
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6800|'Murka

simmy.uk wrote:

Can you be christian and hold a darwin view?
Yes

/thread
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2008-04-30 04:43:09
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|7074|United States of America
The words in the Bible can mean whatever the hell you want them to mean. That's how you get interpretations of fundamentalists, moderates, and those who act like Chreasters but have thought about it more than most.
2008-04-30 05:13:54
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7010|London, England
You're not supposed to take it literally. It's there as a guide, you learn from the morals of the stories. (The Bible)

Unfortunately, through out its history. People think otherwise. I mean just what the fuck has people like The Pope got do fucking do with anything? Do you really need to do all that unnecessary shit? As long as you're a good person, isn't that good enough?

The main point of religion is to try and explain things (which is now, outdated), and to instill morals into people (because some fucks can't do it without it) and especially the Middle Eastern/Abrahamic religions, to control people. Gain power.

Last edited by Mek-Stizzle (2008-04-30 05:14:03)

2008-04-30 07:53:31
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6836|Chicago, IL

c14u53w172 wrote:

simmy.uk wrote:

That we evolved from apes
we didn't evolve from apes, we have the same ancestors. that's a big difference.
drives me crazy when people say "If we evolved from monkeys, then why are they still here?"

"Go take a biology class dumbass, and GTFO of my life!"
2008-04-30 09:45:58
DeathBecomesYu
Member
+171|6568
I was raised christian and believe in my own personal beliefs. I don't have to go to church or read a bible to believe what I believe. Think about the universe. No one has or can explain how the "big bang" was even started in the first place...it is a theory and who knows if it will ever be explained. There are other theories as well, concerning parallel universes and dimensions. It is mind boggling to think about the possibilities. Our universe itself could be just one universe in a bowl of thousands of others and we cant even comprehend the size of that. Our universe could be microscopic to something else like cell life is to us.

Now, a higher power that could create a universe wouldn't give a crap about day or night (7 days). If a higher power existed for eternity as many believe, then creating the Earth over millions of years would be a drop in time for him. To that higher power, millions of years would be a tick of a clock. I believe that both evolution and creationism are intertwined. To what extent, who knows. There is probably life out there, civilizations millions of years ahead of us. We are just infants when it comes to civilization...think about it, what were people living like 200 years ago. We have exploded in the last hundred years but we are only just beginning. Human life on this planet is just starting to truly wake up to the universe, who knows how long we will be on Earth and our future generations better find a new place because Earth is nearing the end of its life cycle, as is the Sun.

Anyhow, we can compare these things all day, but it won't change how small we really are. Christianity, religion, science, creationism, evolution...to me they are all interconnected in some shape or form and we basically don't know anything yet.

 

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