Christmas.SuperJail Warden wrote:
There must be some event in American history that could be used to teach people that 'killing people is not okay'.
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https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/ … th-threats
you know something’s funny when even fox news hosts stress that vaccines saved their lives and made the difference … and dilbert is out here claiming that the vaccines ‘make no difference to the death rate with the new strains’.
you know something’s funny when even fox news hosts stress that vaccines saved their lives and made the difference … and dilbert is out here claiming that the vaccines ‘make no difference to the death rate with the new strains’.
The politics and Republican schisms over at Fox have been interesting to read about as of late.
Nope haven't said that, you should stop making stuff up.uziq wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/feb/22/neil-cavuto-fox-news-business-covid-vaccination-death-threats
you know something’s funny when even fox news hosts stress that vaccines saved their lives and made the difference … and dilbert is out here claiming that the vaccines ‘make no difference to the death rate with the new strains’.
I've said it makes no difference to the infection rate, which it doesn't.
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???Dilbert_X wrote:
Getting people vaccinated doesn't change the mortality rate for omicron, which is non-zero, dur.
words have meanings, you know. do try and communicate to us in language. it does help.
is this another ‘6 million dead in ww2’? you are honestly going senile in your early retirement.
Last edited by uziq (2022-02-22 23:21:11)
Probably meant "Getting people vaccinated doesn't change that the mortality rate for omicron is non-zero"
I was highlighting that as far as the jews are concerned the only people who mattered in WW2 were themselves.
I was highlighting that as far as the jews are concerned the only people who mattered in WW2 were themselves.
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getting people vaccinated absolutely changes the mortality rate for omicron, like all other strains, though?
make some fucking sense. lmao. vaccination makes a dramatic difference to the rates of mortality. it is THAT FUCKING SIMPLE.
or is your argument seriously ‘because the vaccine doesn’t deliver 100% guaranteed immunity in one shot, forever, we should close all borders and live under lockdowns’. is this really the point where your argument is at, dilbert?
the chances of dying if you are vaccinated are a fraction of a fraction of a percent. and even then it is only a risk to those over 70. it’s entirely reasonable that almost every society on earth now are starting to consider better-targeted strategies and to direct their energies at protecting the most vulnerable.
there is zero justification for making vaccinated 18 year olds or 40 year olds stay at home indefinitely. healthy people, with recent and up to date vaccination, are as protected against this thing as they will ever be against any endemic illness with which we tolerate and deal yearly. flu kills a minuscule “nonzero” number of adults each year too, you know, dilbert (alas, we have much worse performing vaccines for it).
your approach to risk on this topic is very very strange for an engineer. there is no comparable public health or epidemiological scenario on earth where the achieved rates of death are ‘zero’. the fact you keep pooh-pooh’ing, undermining, and fearmongering about the BIGGEST mitigators against death, that is, the VACCINES, totally makes your ‘the sanctity of life’ talk seem fucking absurd.
make some fucking sense. lmao. vaccination makes a dramatic difference to the rates of mortality. it is THAT FUCKING SIMPLE.
or is your argument seriously ‘because the vaccine doesn’t deliver 100% guaranteed immunity in one shot, forever, we should close all borders and live under lockdowns’. is this really the point where your argument is at, dilbert?
the chances of dying if you are vaccinated are a fraction of a fraction of a percent. and even then it is only a risk to those over 70. it’s entirely reasonable that almost every society on earth now are starting to consider better-targeted strategies and to direct their energies at protecting the most vulnerable.
there is zero justification for making vaccinated 18 year olds or 40 year olds stay at home indefinitely. healthy people, with recent and up to date vaccination, are as protected against this thing as they will ever be against any endemic illness with which we tolerate and deal yearly. flu kills a minuscule “nonzero” number of adults each year too, you know, dilbert (alas, we have much worse performing vaccines for it).
your approach to risk on this topic is very very strange for an engineer. there is no comparable public health or epidemiological scenario on earth where the achieved rates of death are ‘zero’. the fact you keep pooh-pooh’ing, undermining, and fearmongering about the BIGGEST mitigators against death, that is, the VACCINES, totally makes your ‘the sanctity of life’ talk seem fucking absurd.
Last edited by uziq (2022-02-23 03:32:40)
The efficacy of the vaccines is about three months now, not exactly a long-term solution.
We'll find out where we are with the next variant I guess. You're assuming its going to be milder.
Otherwise yes, as an engineer you aim for better than the medical industry, unless you're designing weapon systems of course.
Aviation is at 0.05 deaths per billion kilometres and people still push engineers to do better.
Doctors have some of the slackest safety outcomes, if you meet a doctor you should probably slap them.
We'll find out where we are with the next variant I guess. You're assuming its going to be milder.
Otherwise yes, as an engineer you aim for better than the medical industry, unless you're designing weapon systems of course.
Aviation is at 0.05 deaths per billion kilometres and people still push engineers to do better.
Doctors have some of the slackest safety outcomes, if you meet a doctor you should probably slap them.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2022-02-23 04:11:41)
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i didn't assume it'll be 'milder', as in an even easier time than omicron. i said that for it to outcompete omicron as the dominant strain, it is going to have to somehow find a way to be more transmissible than a strain which affects the throat and upper respiratory tract, i.e. the lower-risk regions to humans. it is possible that omicron will continue mutating, as it has been the whole time, and eventually come up with some variations that make it more harmful than at present. but are we going to see a return to delta levels of death, i.e. a strain adapted for the deep lungs where the virus does its worst? that's actually less likely.
this is basic natural selection and physiology, dilbert. more transmissible strains are better at outcompeting less-transmissible strains. think about the mechanics of virus transmission w/r/t the human respiratory system. the variants that set our deep lungs like concrete are probably -- probably -- a thing of the past. we can hedge our bets there. the upper-respiratory variants, like omicron, which are going down a path of adaptation favouring the cells found in our throat tissue, are just so much better at exhausting out of our organism and replicating.
the vaccines drop off after 3 months, yes, but they're still more effective than any flu vaccine at 6 months (which posts around a 50% effectivity rate even in a good year). why aren't you advocating for mass lockdowns, border closures, etc, to help mitigate against flu deaths? thousands of australians die of that every year, too, and it is tackled using mass, frequent vaccination, just like covid will need to be.
the simple fact is that people in their 40s die of flu, common cold, just about any 'everyday' illness that we don't shut down society for. medications have complications or side-effects in some people. we can never design a perfectly safe medication; we can never achieve 'nonzero' levels of death for an endemic disease.
where most epidemiologists are seeking a vaccine that will mitigate against serious illness and death, they see the new mRNA vaccines posting 90%+ efficacy rates (when they are up-to-date with current strains, that is). what an epidemiologist sees here is (rightfully) a staggering achievement, some of the most effective vaccines we have ever produced for a mutative respiratory-type illness. what you see is 'hmm, there's still a marginal chance of death, the vaccines are useless'. i suppose, er, that's one way to look at it ...
this is basic natural selection and physiology, dilbert. more transmissible strains are better at outcompeting less-transmissible strains. think about the mechanics of virus transmission w/r/t the human respiratory system. the variants that set our deep lungs like concrete are probably -- probably -- a thing of the past. we can hedge our bets there. the upper-respiratory variants, like omicron, which are going down a path of adaptation favouring the cells found in our throat tissue, are just so much better at exhausting out of our organism and replicating.
the vaccines drop off after 3 months, yes, but they're still more effective than any flu vaccine at 6 months (which posts around a 50% effectivity rate even in a good year). why aren't you advocating for mass lockdowns, border closures, etc, to help mitigate against flu deaths? thousands of australians die of that every year, too, and it is tackled using mass, frequent vaccination, just like covid will need to be.
human biology is vastly more complex than aviation. every single human organism is in some ways inevitably different, in a way that factory-line-produced planes are not or at least should not be. the human system is a complex and multidynamical process, with about umpteen more layers than aerodynamics or jet propulsion.Otherwise yes, as an engineer you aim for better than the medical industry, unless you're designing weapon systems of course.
the simple fact is that people in their 40s die of flu, common cold, just about any 'everyday' illness that we don't shut down society for. medications have complications or side-effects in some people. we can never design a perfectly safe medication; we can never achieve 'nonzero' levels of death for an endemic disease.
where most epidemiologists are seeking a vaccine that will mitigate against serious illness and death, they see the new mRNA vaccines posting 90%+ efficacy rates (when they are up-to-date with current strains, that is). what an epidemiologist sees here is (rightfully) a staggering achievement, some of the most effective vaccines we have ever produced for a mutative respiratory-type illness. what you see is 'hmm, there's still a marginal chance of death, the vaccines are useless'. i suppose, er, that's one way to look at it ...
Last edited by uziq (2022-02-23 04:15:50)
You're assuming the next variant will be a mutation of omicron, it may not.
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the next variant has to outcompete omicron, is the point. it is the globally dominant strain. the next variant, even if it's from a clade that hangs out in the lungs, has to find a way to best that transmissibility. that's the whole point.
my point about omicron continuing to evolve is that it is possible that the 'low-risk' type of covid could still permute in a minor way and become marginally more lethal, as it is now. there are dozens of subtypes of omicron already which could be more or less lethal. it is going to continue doing its thing with every new infection/host, naturally. but it'll never be as lethal as the variants adapted for other cell types in other regions of the body. a sore throat is not as life-threatening as ruined lungs.
i'm not saying the ONLY evolution will come from omicron. it's tended to be you that views covid in 'successive' stages like pokémon, conspiring to ruin human civilisation and become as dangerous/powerful as possible unless we put a halt to it.
my point about omicron continuing to evolve is that it is possible that the 'low-risk' type of covid could still permute in a minor way and become marginally more lethal, as it is now. there are dozens of subtypes of omicron already which could be more or less lethal. it is going to continue doing its thing with every new infection/host, naturally. but it'll never be as lethal as the variants adapted for other cell types in other regions of the body. a sore throat is not as life-threatening as ruined lungs.
i'm not saying the ONLY evolution will come from omicron. it's tended to be you that views covid in 'successive' stages like pokémon, conspiring to ruin human civilisation and become as dangerous/powerful as possible unless we put a halt to it.
Last edited by uziq (2022-02-23 04:28:41)
Breaking News: A new, two-dose Covid vaccine, made by the Europe-based pharmaceutical companies Sanofi and GSK, showed 100% efficacy against severe disease, and may be an effective booster for other shots, its makers said.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/23 … es-vaccine
oh look: updated 2022 vaccine tech is much better at dealing with the latest strains.
it’s almost like … everything i said … about new vaccines (and new antivirals) … will improve the picture …
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/23 … es-vaccine
oh look: updated 2022 vaccine tech is much better at dealing with the latest strains.
it’s almost like … everything i said … about new vaccines (and new antivirals) … will improve the picture …
the data is in on the omicron wave.
let dilbert argue no fucking more about it.
hospitalisations. (it should be noted that average hospital stay for omicron is drastically shorter and less severe in nature than previous strains; much lower rates of intubation, ventilation, etc.)
deaths.
please no more talk of ‘people dying in droves to this thing’ in australia because of reopening. GET FUCKING BOOSTERED.
let dilbert argue no fucking more about it.
hospitalisations. (it should be noted that average hospital stay for omicron is drastically shorter and less severe in nature than previous strains; much lower rates of intubation, ventilation, etc.)
deaths.
please no more talk of ‘people dying in droves to this thing’ in australia because of reopening. GET FUCKING BOOSTERED.
Last edited by uziq (2022-02-24 00:44:52)
but bro, people died in australia. its a tragedy.
How many people have to die every 3 months by a crock in north Queensland? why isnt the media talking about this.
How many people have to die every 3 months by a crock in north Queensland? why isnt the media talking about this.
You've entirely missed the point multiple times now.uziq wrote:
the data is in on the omicron wave.
let dilbert argue no fucking more about it.
hospitalisations. (it should be noted that average hospital stay for omicron is drastically shorter and less severe in nature than previous strains; much lower rates of intubation, ventilation, etc.)
deaths.
please no more talk of ‘people dying in droves to this thing’ in australia because of reopening. GET FUCKING BOOSTERED.
These vaccines do nothing to eradicate covid as they don't really suppress it - just reduce the mortality, if anything they help it breed, multiply and mutate and become endemic because people don't see transmission or infection as an issue any more.
for the immuno-compromised and the old this is really really bad, not to mention the vastly increased likelihood of a new variant which may be more or less damaging.
If the chinese hadn't been evil, and everyone hadn't been so fucking stupid this could have been eradicated - like SARS, MERS, Ebola etc, or at least suppressed until we had a proper vaccine which could have given us eradication.
But no, we have to carry on partying and travelling.
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vaccines help covid to multiply and mutate
i have heard it all.
what causes a disease to spread is people attending school, university; people going to work in offices; people commuting on busy transport networks. you know, normal everyday civil society. productive human activity. to say that vaccines ‘encourage disease spread’ is a fucking hilarious read of it. society has to resume at some point, the economic and social costs of suspending the aforementioned activity are literally generation-indebting.
eradication of a globally prevalent, highly infectious diseases is impossible. we aren’t dealing with smallpox, once again. there is no silver bullet in this scenario. other than maximum global lockdown for half a year. good luck with that proposal when we are looking at a disease that poses zero threat to the vaccinated.
for immunocompromised and the elderly, vaccines are far and away their best help. MANY diseases pose a large threat to their life. we can’t shut down society for them. any number of basically endemic diseases that you never gripe about are potentially life-ending for the elderly.
why haven’t you vociferously campaigned for mass lockdowns for get on top of flu before? it stalks the elderly every year, no?
there was never going to be a ‘proper vaccine which could ensure eradication’. perhaps you’re forgetting that everyone accepted a year of full-on lockdowns because there was NO guarantee whatsoever we would have ANY working vaccine. highly mutative + highly infectious corona-type diseases are not a problem that has ever been solved by vaccination in human history. we could have been waiting and extending those full-scale lockdowns for a very, very long time.
i have heard it all.
what causes a disease to spread is people attending school, university; people going to work in offices; people commuting on busy transport networks. you know, normal everyday civil society. productive human activity. to say that vaccines ‘encourage disease spread’ is a fucking hilarious read of it. society has to resume at some point, the economic and social costs of suspending the aforementioned activity are literally generation-indebting.
eradication of a globally prevalent, highly infectious diseases is impossible. we aren’t dealing with smallpox, once again. there is no silver bullet in this scenario. other than maximum global lockdown for half a year. good luck with that proposal when we are looking at a disease that poses zero threat to the vaccinated.
for immunocompromised and the elderly, vaccines are far and away their best help. MANY diseases pose a large threat to their life. we can’t shut down society for them. any number of basically endemic diseases that you never gripe about are potentially life-ending for the elderly.
why haven’t you vociferously campaigned for mass lockdowns for get on top of flu before? it stalks the elderly every year, no?
there was never going to be a ‘proper vaccine which could ensure eradication’. perhaps you’re forgetting that everyone accepted a year of full-on lockdowns because there was NO guarantee whatsoever we would have ANY working vaccine. highly mutative + highly infectious corona-type diseases are not a problem that has ever been solved by vaccination in human history. we could have been waiting and extending those full-scale lockdowns for a very, very long time.
Last edited by uziq (2022-02-24 04:18:41)
Which is why lockdowns work.uziq wrote:
what causes a disease to spread is people attending school, university; people going to work in offices; people commuting on busy transport networks.
Opening up -> Virus spreads and infects more people - why are you struggling with this.
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lockdowns only ever work in a local and very limited way. they buy time, not solve the problem.
lockdowns also ‘work’ by incurring enormous social and economic costs. they’re not frictionless or harm-free measures. they don’t come without ‘risks’ or ‘collaterals’ of their own.
we have seen time and time again how extending lockdowns only invites more outbreaks, more escapes, more complications - and less effectivity over time. people accept the high costs in the short term, but eventually it becomes hard to justify. the virus begins to ingress anyway. untraceable community transmission creeps up.
you are still advocating for lockdown-based suppression/eradication of covid. amazing. when it failed with the first wave. failed utterly by the time delta arrived. nowhere on earth has lockdown-based suppression actually worked. it requires perfect, indeed totalitarian, levels of control and compliance. china, the obvious best model, are still playing whack a mole with a different city every week.
how are you so dense?
lockdowns also ‘work’ by incurring enormous social and economic costs. they’re not frictionless or harm-free measures. they don’t come without ‘risks’ or ‘collaterals’ of their own.
we have seen time and time again how extending lockdowns only invites more outbreaks, more escapes, more complications - and less effectivity over time. people accept the high costs in the short term, but eventually it becomes hard to justify. the virus begins to ingress anyway. untraceable community transmission creeps up.
you are still advocating for lockdown-based suppression/eradication of covid. amazing. when it failed with the first wave. failed utterly by the time delta arrived. nowhere on earth has lockdown-based suppression actually worked. it requires perfect, indeed totalitarian, levels of control and compliance. china, the obvious best model, are still playing whack a mole with a different city every week.
how are you so dense?
Last edited by uziq (2022-02-24 05:11:49)
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
- +636|3737
Went to a Bonobo show in Brooklyn last night. Maybe a thousand people in attendance. First show since the pandemic started. Anyhow the security there was intense. You needed proof of vaccination and ID. They made everyone go through hand wand metal detections things. They went through wallets, purses, and randomly yanked people for more screening. They did this in a covered parking lot across the street from the actual venue. Never seen that much security for a venue. There was even a cop walking around with a chest rig of gear. Looking like a smug Punisher guarding a sea of liberals and alt lifestyle types.
I had bought a 1800 mg vape. Was near the front. Felt nice to just dance while really really high.
Anyhow...pandemic. The staff wore face mask. I saw maybe 2 or 3 people in the crowd of 1000 who still had a mask. People looked at them funny.
I had bought a 1800 mg vape. Was near the front. Felt nice to just dance while really really high.
Anyhow...pandemic. The staff wore face mask. I saw maybe 2 or 3 people in the crowd of 1000 who still had a mask. People looked at them funny.
most of europe has had nightlife and clubs open for the majority of the last year now. only shutting down for the worst of the omicron wave. plans to reopen in march for major nightlife centres like berlin.
it can be done. many events have been held without becoming those dreaded ‘superspreader’ events. vaccine passports, lateral flow rapid testing for entry, QR codes or sign ins, etc. mask wearing is still a feature in many countries/venues, though not all. venues themselves are doing much more about crowd control, ventilation, outdoor facilities, etc.
it can be done. many events have been held without becoming those dreaded ‘superspreader’ events. vaccine passports, lateral flow rapid testing for entry, QR codes or sign ins, etc. mask wearing is still a feature in many countries/venues, though not all. venues themselves are doing much more about crowd control, ventilation, outdoor facilities, etc.
https://www.newsweek.com/wuhan-lab-leak … et-1683005
two new studies point dispositively towards a wet market being the origin of covid’s transmission to humans.
two new studies point dispositively towards a wet market being the origin of covid’s transmission to humans.
But what about all those early 2020 woodworks, "incontrovertible proof" of lab-leaked bioweapon state. The evidence is all over the virus itself! I read it from a doctor in India, or something.
We're slowly getting fucked by Omicron now, after having beaten Alpha and Delta. It does seem to be peaking in one part of the country, so hopefully the curve will be smoothed somewhat by this regional peaking.
The anti-mandate/anti-vax crowd is as nutty as it is anywhere else. They're abusing people for wearing masks, spitting on people, using their own children as human shields, have used chemical sprays on cops, have tried to run over cops and are even throwing human feces at them. The protestors are ruining businesses in the areas of their protests, regular customers are staying away due to intimidation by these so called "peaceful" protestors.
The police have been markedly restrained as they want to avoid a repeat of the 1981 springbok tour riots.
People are growing increasingly tired of their shit and if they don't stop, sooner or later there will be some serious retaliatory violence.
The anti-mandate/anti-vax crowd is as nutty as it is anywhere else. They're abusing people for wearing masks, spitting on people, using their own children as human shields, have used chemical sprays on cops, have tried to run over cops and are even throwing human feces at them. The protestors are ruining businesses in the areas of their protests, regular customers are staying away due to intimidation by these so called "peaceful" protestors.
The police have been markedly restrained as they want to avoid a repeat of the 1981 springbok tour riots.
People are growing increasingly tired of their shit and if they don't stop, sooner or later there will be some serious retaliatory violence.
Ermuziq wrote:
https://www.newsweek.com/wuhan-lab-leak-theory-undermined-new-research-points-wet-market-1683005
two new studies point dispositively towards a wet market being the origin of covid’s transmission to humans.
Two studies authored by the same person.
This just raises a lot of questions really:
- Why are you desperate to to prove this didn't come from a lab?
- How did they reach these conclusions when the chinese have withheld all the data?
- "spatial analysis to show that the earliest known cases of COVID-19 were located near the market." Doesn't mean it didn't come from the lab via the market - most places have had significant outbreaks in abattoirs, what exactly proves it didn't initially come from the lab?
- "It found that positive environmental samples were "strongly associated" with vendors selling live animals including raccoon dogs." What positive samples? No-one has been allowed to access the wet market or any samples taken at the time. So what? We know the market was selling live animals
- "There was a study recently that we can make available to you, where a group of highly qualified evolutionary virologists looked at the sequences [of the novel coronavirus] and the sequences in bats as they evolve. And the mutations that it took to get to the point where it is now is totally consistent with a jump of a species from an animal to a human," - How does this prove the species jump didn't happen in a lab? So what anyway? The Wuhan lab was holding and working on virus samples which had already made the species jump - then deleted the genome sequences and destroyed the samples. Suspicious no?
- Three studies have been cited, none of them linked in the article, why not?
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ehmmm? i don’t know that i’ve ever been ‘desperate’ to prove the origins of the virus in any which way. open to reading all the studies and information, yes. motivated or selective? hardly.Dilbert_X wrote:
Why are you desperate to to prove this didn't come from a lab?
one could just as easily ask why you’re so ‘desperate’ to always interpret the worst in every pandemic scenario. why are you so desperate to discredit the vaccines? accuse virologists of dishonesty? undermine public health efforts? i could go on.
it’s not like it’s one maverick with this outlier opinion, is it? the mainstream of scientists are in line with this view. the bulk of research.Two studies authored by the same person.
this ‘one person’ is a canadian academic at a US institution. what possibly could be their motivation to lie, lie repeatedly, and ruin their entire career?
both studies were published in peer-reviewed journals. do you know how double or even triple blind peer-review works? you do realise that the author’s name is with-held during this process, right? two papers submitted to two different journals are not going to be ‘selectively’ favoured or carried through by dishonest means. that’s not how scientific research gets published, dilbert.
lmao how are you privy to this information? if all the scientists who support the mainstream theory have been bamboozled or are working in the dark? how can you so confidently declaim on the causes of an absence of evidence? how do you know the sequence of events inside a black-box?The Wuhan lab was holding and working on virus samples which had already made the species jump - then deleted the genome sequences and destroyed the samples. Suspicious no?
now that’s really next level.
so let me get this straight: throughout the pandemic you’ve poked holes in the research of mRNA virologists, epidemiologists, public health experts, etc, all claiming to have found holes in their methodology. when you aren’t doing that, you’re making vaguely conspiratorial statements about how ‘the experts are a self-interested cabal anyway’.
and in counter you proffer some arguments you gleaned from airport departure lounge thrillers, about ‘china deleting their evidence’. righty ho. seems totally sensible.
finally, and most importantly:
well, quite. you’re the one who has ranted and raved about china and the origins of this thing for the last 3 years. i think “so what anyway?” really is the best response. it’s out there. it happened. finding out conclusively, once and for all, how this thing started isn’t going to change anything. “so what?”So what anyway?
Last edited by uziq (2022-02-27 00:21:23)