BF2S Forums Would you die for your country?

Dying for your country is a lot more about dying for an idea than dying for the people who happen to be living in a certain geography.

dulce et decorum est, pro patria mori

I would give my life to help preserve my country's way of life, regardless of the type of citizens or whether or not they care.

Those who are willing to lay down their lives for an idea as obscure and ill defined as patriotism or nationalism get what they deserve. In combat, ideas of country go out the window and lives are lain down not for a flag, but to protect the lives of those to your right and left. What brings people to the point of serving is as broad of a spectrum as the spectrum of human condition. Some really do join out of patriotic fervor, most join because service offers a chance at a better life. In the end, none of those reasons matter and those that do end up dying, for whatever reason or motive, end up lumped together as heroes willing to die for their country, even if untrue. Defining them as heroes serves the dual purpose of enticing new recruits blinded by patriotism and the thought of glory, and allowing the politicians and the populace they serve to sleep better at night. If the truth about war were told, no more wars would be fought except by madmen and sociopaths.

Uzique wrote:

that line was used in school, but in this context

dulce et decorum est pro patria mori sed dulcius pro patria vivere, et dulcisimum pro patria bibere: ergo, bibamus pro salute patriae

I was quoting from "All Quiet On The Western Front". The implied preface I was going for was "The old lie..." which I hoped some would get with my second reply

Uzique wrote:

actually it's taken from horace... hence it being in my school's classic syllabus, and the full-line is the reason why writers/poets in ww1/ww2 used it. it's actually from wilfred owen before it was used by remarque for his novel's epigraph. wilfred owen's satiric use of the line is satirical precisely for the reason that the full line by horace means something along the lines of "it is sweet and good to die for one's homeland, but it is sweeter to live for one's homeland, and it is sweetest to drink for one's homeland: therefore, drink to our country!"

...the more you know!

sorry to be pedantic but i hate people misquoting cliches

I know it's from a Wilfred Owen poem, studied it in school. I studied Spanish rather than Latin so I've had no exposure to Horace.

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.

Gas! Gas! Quick, boys! –  An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling,
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime . . .
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori.

Fair enough. But at this point it matters not and you are waging a losing battle 99 out of 100 people that recognize the quote have never read Horace, nor plan to

SEREMAKER wrote:

http://www.textually.org/ringtonia/arch … lag-2a.jpg

Lets move this discussion on to how the brain-washing of the American population begins in kindergarten.

SEREMAKER wrote:

some of us love our country and our way of life

How many Americans don't even have a passport, or can find America on a world map?

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-09-05 17:52:27)

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

SEREMAKER wrote:

some of us love our country and our way of life

How many Americans don't even have a passport, or can find America on a world map?

Two.

You and Seremaker?

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Two.

You and Seremaker?

Maybe, maybe not. I can find Canada though, it's our hat.

i knows australia iz an island