Blackwater Founder Implicated in Murder

2009-08-04 16:14:21

#1

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5598

A former Blackwater employee and an ex-US Marine who has worked as a security operative for the company have made a series of explosive allegations in sworn statements filed on August 3 in federal court in Virginia. The two men claim that the company's owner, Erik Prince, may have murdered or facilitated the murder of individuals who were cooperating with federal authorities investigating the company. The former employee also alleges that Prince "views himself as a Christian crusader tasked with eliminating Muslims and the Islamic faith from the globe," and that Prince's companies "encouraged and rewarded the destruction of Iraqi life."

In their testimony, both men also allege that Blackwater was smuggling weapons into Iraq. One of the men alleges that Prince turned a profit by transporting "illegal" or "unlawful" weapons into the country on Prince's private planes. They also charge that Prince and other Blackwater executives destroyed incriminating videos, emails and other documents and have intentionally deceived the US State Department and other federal agencies. The identities of the two individuals were sealed out of concerns for their safety.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090817/scahill
Aww fuck it's like an action movie.

2009-08-04 16:32:02

#2

mafia996630: © 2009 Jeff Minard; +319|6776|d

I don't think your OP is in compliance with the new rules. Something about having original content in your OP to get a debate going.

2009-08-04 16:38:50

#3

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6165|what

/inb4 but these mercs aren't that bad... I don't even agree they should be called mercs. They are just a private army.

2009-08-04 17:29:08

#4

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6541|Global Command

mafia996630 wrote:
I don't think your OP is in compliance with the new rules. Something about having original content in your OP to get a debate going.

" Aww fuck it's like an action movie. "

Lame, pathetic and irrelevant, but original content is there.

2009-08-04 18:07:08

#5

mcgid1: Meh...; +129|6729|Austin, TX/San Antonio, TX

ATG wrote:
mafia996630 wrote:
I don't think your OP is in compliance with the new rules. Something about having original content in your OP to get a debate going.
" Aww fuck it's like an action movie. "

Lame, pathetic and irrelevant, but original content is there.

Well, since he didn't really post anything to get a debate going, I'll try

Does this seem legit, or could it possibly be a former employee and ex-marine who had a bad experience with the company? Could the CEO of Blackwater have really been that brazen and stupid as to pay for the murder of witnesses and smuggle illegal weapons into a warzone controlled by the nation in which their main offices are, and are currently employed with?

2009-08-04 18:32:53

#6

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6541|Global Command

Blackwater is a travesty. Yes, it could likely have happened.

It is because of documented heavy handed and trigger happy behavior that they lost big contracts worth tens of millions.

I think that whatever U.S. authorities responsible for hiring them and putting them into combat environments should be prosecuted for war crimes as mercenaries are clearly illegal.

If they weren't mercenaries I am Obamas real dad.

2009-08-04 19:26:20

#7

Masques: Black Panzer Party; +184|6735|Eastern PA

IMO only the state(s) should have the ability to use coercive force (that includes police, military, intelligence, etc.). As soon as you start to employ and empower 3rd parties outside of the nominal checks that a government has, bad things start to happen.

2009-08-04 20:14:26

#8

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6417|North Carolina

If you're hired to possibly kill, you tend to be more open to killing for reasons outside of your occupation.

2009-08-04 20:41:10

#9

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6687|Canberra, AUS

When private, unelected strongmen get that much power...

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2009-08-04 22:09:44

#10

nickb64: formerly from OC (it's EXACTLY like on tv)[truth]; +77|5623|Greatest Nation on Earth(USA)

Blackwater are much like the Hessians of the Revolutionary Era... IMO

Last edited by nickb64 (2009-08-04 22:10:12)

2009-08-05 04:37:35

#11

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6423|'Murka

Allegations. From former employees.

Against a man with a public black eye already.

But let's go ahead and jump to the conclusion that he did what he was accused of absent anything other than a statement from two former employees.

Seriously, people. Get a grip.

If he did it, fry him. But not until it's proven that he did it. If it's proven that he didn't, what will you say then?

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-08-05 04:44:17

#12

m3thod: All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz; +2,197|6684|UK

lucky bastard.

Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.

2009-08-05 04:46:44

#13

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6423|'Murka

m3thod wrote:
lucky bastard.

Because he didn't do what he was accused of? Lucky?

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-08-05 04:47:05

#14

m3thod: All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz; +2,197|6684|UK

FEOS wrote:
m3thod wrote:
lucky bastard.
Because he didn't do what he was accused of? Lucky?

No, cos he's a cunt.

Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.

2009-08-05 05:47:03

#15

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6687|Canberra, AUS

The former employee also alleges that Prince "views himself as a Christian crusader tasked with eliminating Muslims and the Islamic faith from the globe," and that Prince's companies "encouraged and rewarded the destruction of Iraqi life."

If true then I would have to agree with m3th.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2009-08-05 18:35:41

#16

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6423|'Murka

m3thod wrote:
FEOS wrote:
m3thod wrote:
lucky bastard.
Because he didn't do what he was accused of? Lucky?
No, cos he's a cunt.

And what do you base that on?

Do you know the guy?

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-08-05 18:40:03

#17

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5598

FEOS wrote:
m3thod wrote:
FEOS wrote:

Because he didn't do what he was accused of? Lucky?
No, cos he's a cunt.
And what do you base that on?

Do you know the guy?

Ugh, that argument is a bit silly considering everyone mouths off about some public figure the idea that "You don't know him, thus you can't comment on him as a person" is a bad detour.

Using the same logic you could halt a debate about anybody on the grounds of "well you don't know the guy, so shut the fuck up."

Just chirping in.

2009-08-05 18:54:18

#18

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6423|'Murka

Macbeth wrote:
FEOS wrote:
m3thod wrote:

No, cos he's a cunt.
And what do you base that on?

Do you know the guy?
Ugh, that argument is a bit silly considering everyone mouths off about some public figure the idea that "You don't know him, thus you can't comment on him as a person" is a bad detour.

Using the same logic you could halt a debate about anybody on the grounds of "well you don't know the guy, so shut the fuck up."

Just chirping in.

What I'm saying is that nobody has provided any evidence of this guy 1) doing what he was accused of by a former employee (disgruntled much?) or 2) being a cunt.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-08-05 18:58:42

#19

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6165|what

Well FEOS compare the "well he is clearly innocent until proven guilty" wailing to, oh, let's say your opinion on those held at GITMO.

On the head of Blackwater:

FEOS wrote:

Allegations. From former employees.

Against a man with a public black eye already.

But let's go ahead and jump to the conclusion that he did what he was accused of absent anything other than a statement from two former employees.

Seriously, people. Get a grip.

If he did it, fry him. But not until it's proven that he did it. If it's proven that he didn't, what will you say then?

And now you even make mention of "evidence", yet on those sent to Gitmo:

FEOS wrote:
First, not just every swinging Richard gets sent to Gitmo. There is a lot more than just "being captured" to determine who goes to Gitmo and who goes to prisons in-country.

Is it possible? Of course. Anything is possible.

Is it probable? No.

You people are acting like these guys were found caring for new-born puppies or something. With no intel to back up who they are or what they do. They were just butterfly-farming, minding their own business, and WHAM! Uncle Sam comes in and takes them from their idyllic lives and starts to torture them in Cuba. That is utterly asinine and naive.

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 6#p2666856

And

FEOS wrote:
Those who were remanded to GITMO were/are terrorists. That's what I was saying. They don't get shipped to GITMO right off the bat. If they were AQ-affiliated, then they were, by definition, terrorists. AQ is a terrorist organization. Organizations affiliated with AQ are terrorist organizations. Members of those organizations are terrorists.

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 4#p2667394

So if you get sent to Gitmo and don't have a trial you're automatically guilty, for the simple fact you were sent there.

Yet when a mercenary groups founder is accused of murder, that's completely different and he's obviously innocent because we don't know the guy personally.

Yeah ok. No double standards there.

2009-08-05 18:59:53

#20

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5598

FEOS wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
FEOS wrote:

And what do you base that on?

Do you know the guy?
Ugh, that argument is a bit silly considering everyone mouths off about some public figure the idea that "You don't know him, thus you can't comment on him as a person" is a bad detour.

Using the same logic you could halt a debate about anybody on the grounds of "well you don't know the guy, so shut the fuck up."

Just chirping in.
What I'm saying is that nobody has provided any evidence of this guy 1) doing what he was accused of by a former employee (disgruntled much?) or 2) being a cunt.

I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to sign a sworn statement against such a wealthy and powerful person just to be a cunt especially one that has military back up.

2009-08-05 19:02:44

#21

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6423|'Murka

Macbeth wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Ugh, that argument is a bit silly considering everyone mouths off about some public figure the idea that "You don't know him, thus you can't comment on him as a person" is a bad detour.

Using the same logic you could halt a debate about anybody on the grounds of "well you don't know the guy, so shut the fuck up."

Just chirping in.
What I'm saying is that nobody has provided any evidence of this guy 1) doing what he was accused of by a former employee (disgruntled much?) or 2) being a cunt.
I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to sign a sworn statement against such a wealthy and powerful person just to be a cunt especially one that has military back up.

He doesn't have "military back up". And people sign sworn statements of that type all the time.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-08-05 19:05:57

#22

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6423|'Murka

AussieReaper wrote:
Well FEOS compare the "well he is clearly innocent until proven guilty" wailing to, oh, let's say your opinion on those held at GITMO.

On the head of Blackwater:

FEOS wrote:

Allegations. From former employees.

Against a man with a public black eye already.

But let's go ahead and jump to the conclusion that he did what he was accused of absent anything other than a statement from two former employees.

Seriously, people. Get a grip.

If he did it, fry him. But not until it's proven that he did it. If it's proven that he didn't, what will you say then?
And now you even make mention of "evidence", yet on those sent to Gitmo:

FEOS wrote:
First, not just every swinging Richard gets sent to Gitmo. There is a lot more than just "being captured" to determine who goes to Gitmo and who goes to prisons in-country.

Is it possible? Of course. Anything is possible.

Is it probable? No.

You people are acting like these guys were found caring for new-born puppies or something. With no intel to back up who they are or what they do. They were just butterfly-farming, minding their own business, and WHAM! Uncle Sam comes in and takes them from their idyllic lives and starts to torture them in Cuba. That is utterly asinine and naive.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 6#p2666856

And

FEOS wrote:
Those who were remanded to GITMO were/are terrorists. That's what I was saying. They don't get shipped to GITMO right off the bat. If they were AQ-affiliated, then they were, by definition, terrorists. AQ is a terrorist organization. Organizations affiliated with AQ are terrorist organizations. Members of those organizations are terrorists.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 4#p2667394

So if you get sent to Gitmo and don't have a trial you're automatically guilty, for the simple fact you were sent there.

Yet when a mercenary groups founder is accused of murder, that's completely different and he's obviously innocent because we don't know the guy personally.

Yeah ok. No double standards there.

Epic case of you not reading a fucking thing before you hit SUBMIT.

Try it next time.

Also epic case of confusing CIVIL law with MILITARY (ie, Geneva Convention) law. The Blackwater case is the former, GITMO is the latter. As for evidence, there's plenty enough to remand those knuckleheads to GITMO...otherwise they wouldn't be there. Hence the "butterfly farming" comment.

But don't let pesky things like facts stand in your way!

I wonder how it felt when that smarmy smirk melted off your face just now...

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-08-05 19:06:01

#23

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5598

FEOS wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
FEOS wrote:

What I'm saying is that nobody has provided any evidence of this guy 1) doing what he was accused of by a former employee (disgruntled much?) or 2) being a cunt.
I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to sign a sworn statement against such a wealthy and powerful person just to be a cunt especially one that has military back up.
He doesn't have "military back up". And people sign sworn statements of that type all the time.

I can't spell mercenary all that well so I just used military back up.

2009-08-05 19:08:02

#24

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5598

FEOS wrote:
AussieReaper wrote:
Well FEOS compare the "well he is clearly innocent until proven guilty" wailing to, oh, let's say your opinion on those held at GITMO.

On the head of Blackwater:

FEOS wrote:

Allegations. From former employees.

Against a man with a public black eye already.

But let's go ahead and jump to the conclusion that he did what he was accused of absent anything other than a statement from two former employees.

Seriously, people. Get a grip.

If he did it, fry him. But not until it's proven that he did it. If it's proven that he didn't, what will you say then?
And now you even make mention of "evidence", yet on those sent to Gitmo:

FEOS wrote:
First, not just every swinging Richard gets sent to Gitmo. There is a lot more than just "being captured" to determine who goes to Gitmo and who goes to prisons in-country.

Is it possible? Of course. Anything is possible.

Is it probable? No.

You people are acting like these guys were found caring for new-born puppies or something. With no intel to back up who they are or what they do. They were just butterfly-farming, minding their own business, and WHAM! Uncle Sam comes in and takes them from their idyllic lives and starts to torture them in Cuba. That is utterly asinine and naive.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 6#p2666856

And

FEOS wrote:
Those who were remanded to GITMO were/are terrorists. That's what I was saying. They don't get shipped to GITMO right off the bat. If they were AQ-affiliated, then they were, by definition, terrorists. AQ is a terrorist organization. Organizations affiliated with AQ are terrorist organizations. Members of those organizations are terrorists.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 4#p2667394

So if you get sent to Gitmo and don't have a trial you're automatically guilty, for the simple fact you were sent there.

Yet when a mercenary groups founder is accused of murder, that's completely different and he's obviously innocent because we don't know the guy personally.

Yeah ok. No double standards there.
Epic case of you not reading a fucking thing before you hit SUBMIT.

Try it next time.

Also epic case of confusing CIVIL law with MILITARY (ie, Geneva Convention) law. The Blackwater case is the former, GITMO is the latter. As for evidence, there's plenty enough to remand those knuckleheads to GITMO...otherwise they wouldn't be there. Hence the "butterfly farming" comment.

But don't let pesky things like facts stand in your way!

I wonder how it felt when that smarmy smirk melted off your face just now...

Morally there is no difference.

2009-08-05 19:09:25

#25

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6423|'Murka

Macbeth wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to sign a sworn statement against such a wealthy and powerful person just to be a cunt especially one that has military back up.
He doesn't have "military back up". And people sign sworn statements of that type all the time.
I can't spell mercenary all that well so I just used military back up.

For the last time: they. aren't. mercenaries.

The American Heritage Dictionary, Fourth Edition wrote:
A professional soldier hired for service in a foreign army.

They aren't/weren't that. Therefore, not mercenaries.

Macbeth wrote:
Morally there is no difference.

Yes. There is.

Last edited by FEOS (2009-08-05 19:10:08)

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

BF2S Forums Blackwater Founder Implicated in Murder

mafia996630 wrote:

ATG wrote:

mafia996630 wrote:

m3thod wrote:

FEOS wrote:

m3thod wrote:

m3thod wrote:

FEOS wrote:

m3thod wrote:

FEOS wrote:

m3thod wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

FEOS wrote:

m3thod wrote:

FEOS wrote:

FEOS wrote:

FEOS wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

FEOS wrote:

FEOS wrote:

FEOS wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

FEOS wrote:

FEOS wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

FEOS wrote:

FEOS wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

The American Heritage Dictionary, Fourth Edition wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

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