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2006-03-21 08:33:41
\o/ AfterMath
Member
+0|6710
Wow me and my clan are getting ready for an up and coming scrim. I set up ATC and went over a pretty general tactic for Mashtuur City. One part of the plan involved using the blackhawk w/ a 2 man crew (pilot and a gunner) We knew since the other 3 patches that the Blackhawk couldn't take as many hits anymore and that repairing it w/ an engineer is almost pointless. Plus you can't cap flags w/ a fully load helo.
Anyhow back to my complaint/question. We load up our server to run 24-7 Strike and Mashtuur so we can get some practice. I got a chance to hop in the Blackhawk's door gun we took off and headed for the action. The pilot and myself were on TS and I told him I got 1 troop on my side and rotate so I can put fire on his arse! I put the crosshair on my target and let it rip! To my amazement the enemy went prone, stood up and went prone again. I let that gun fire until it overheated and the only thing I did to the guy was make a cloud of smoke around him. I don't get it w/ this patch did they reduce the damage of blackhawks mini guns, accuracy or both?
Ok if I have to live w/ this how do I use it? Is it like Desert Combat Blackhawking where the mini guns need to lead the targets? If the guns are this bad now should there be a need for them to over heat? Also shouldn't the mini guns still be able to blow up light armoured vehicles hum-vees and such? Is the Blackhawk now just a floating transport w/ firecracker shooters on it's sides?
I don't care it doesn't take much to take out the helo's but now a days they are like floating tubs! But should the guns not kill people and lite armour? Or do you disagree?

If you have good feedback oh how to use guns please let me hear it again our match isn't going to be canned b/c the Blackhawk is nerfed.
2006-03-21 16:44:05
-=S8M=-Phoenix
Member
+45|6834|South Cybertown, Texas
I too have noticed that the BH is now an almost worthless asset! A good team can still use it for capping flags, but everyone needs to bailout at each flag and than load back up.

I played a few Mashtuur City maps (32 player) with a great team the other day where we did just that. We own all the flags in no time at all. It made for three of the fastest map win I have ever had, but very low points.

Using it to fly around and scoring big kill points is over! EA reduced its effectiveness because of all the whiners! IMHO, EA should have had the balls to tell all the noobs to go play an RPG game instead of noobing the game for those who could handle it.

Last edited by -=S8M=-Phoenix (2006-03-21 16:44:36)

2006-03-21 18:36:08
Silverwolf3032
Member
+0|6742
FUK THE NOOBS!!!

Bring back the damn Blackhawk pre-patch
2006-03-21 18:40:01
(T)eflon(S)hadow
R.I.P. Neda
+456|6870|Grapevine, TX

Silverwolf3032 wrote:

FUK THE NOOBS!!!

Bring back the damn Blackhawk pre-patch
Those mini guns are not designed to spit out 6000 rounds of actual spitballs, I agree the BH needs at least 30%-50% of its killing power put back in.
2006-03-21 20:26:44
\o/ AfterMath
Member
+0|6710
Wow I thought this thread was never going to fly but I'm glad there are good gamers out there that agree that the blackhawk is completely nerfed. Maybe it should be refered to as the flying butterfly now?

Thanks for the feedback
2006-03-21 21:12:13
Miller
IT'S MILLER TIME!
+271|6797|United States of America
Yeah, I have actually started to love the tanks on Mashtuur.  Now that the BlackHawk isn't worth anything, tanks are the only good vehicles to use.
2006-03-21 22:33:36
dshak
Member
+4|6854
haven't noticed one difference, still have no problem raping away with the mother f*** that is the mini gun. Thats not to say that you guys aren't right, but if you are I sure can't tell.

If they did 'nerf' it I couldn't blame them anyway, that minigun was ridiculous. I don't like things that are TOO easy to kill with. Tonight for the first time ever I got into the gunner seat on a plane with a halfway decent pilot. You don't even have to fricken aim those guided missiles, its just "get tone, click, kill." At least the TV on the choppers requires a little ability.

what a yawn.
2006-03-21 23:40:15
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|6688
The way I figure, they either needed to make the blackhawak suckier or make the other transports equally good. All you pussies who only played USMC on Mashturr need to stfu with your "I WANT MY UNFAIR ADVANTAGE BACK CUZ I LIKE WINNING EVERY TIME!!"
2006-03-21 23:55:57
CrazeD
Member
+368|6714|Maine
I bet if you put support class with PKM's in the side seats, it would be more effective.
2006-03-22 07:15:45
Beorn_23_7
Heathenish Foray
+22|6679|Upstate NY

CrazeD wrote:

I bet if you put support class with PKM's in the side seats, it would be more effective.
I like that idea. That's a good amount of added firepower. Start tossing some grenades out the side and you kinda got a low tech AC-130.
2006-03-22 07:36:13
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6757
fully loaded BH = Team work. I thought that was what BF2 was all about, working as a team. they definantly need to bring the splash damage back to the black hawk
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2006-03-22 07:42:22
\o/ AfterMath
Member
+0|6710

dshak wrote:

If they did 'nerf' it I couldn't blame them anyway, that minigun was ridiculous. I don't like things that are TOO easy to kill with. Tonight for the first time ever I got into the gunner seat on a plane with a halfway decent pilot. You don't even have to fricken aim those guided missiles, its just "get tone, click, kill." At least the TV on the choppers requires a little ability.

what a yawn.
I don't know man I mean a true blackhawk isn't going to load it's guns w/ cotton balls either. The nice thing about the patch is that the blackhawk isn't that hard to take out now a days! So it's not a uber device that can just rule the map. Being so the guns should have some kick to them to at least warrent it even being in the game.
Would you get in a tank that couldn't kill a hum-vee one tank shot? Do you think anyone would? Hence you have tanks sitting and collecting dust.
Let me ask you this when you see the blackhawk hovering around blasting it's guns or even shooting at you do you run and hide anymore? No...why? B/c you know the guns have such a slim chance of hitting you even though it's raining hot lead on you.
2006-03-22 07:59:21
Darth_Fleder
Mod from the Church of the Painful Truth
+533|6847|Orlando, FL - Age 43
I have to agree...EA/Dice took the wrong approach to the BH. What they should have done is beef up the guns on the MEC/China choppers.

Instead of caving in to whiners and nerfing weapons, which runs counter to the entire history of weapons development, they should be improving weapons to achieve balance.

Another example is the GL. The improvement in the PKM and other support weapons was all that was really necessary to provide balance to the infantry side of the game.

Everytime that EA/Dice decides to nerf a weapon, it will leave another weapon in the position to dominate. It only leads to a cycle where all we will be left with is a bunch of foam swords and super-soakers to play with.
2006-03-22 20:42:57
dshak
Member
+4|6854
actually, when face with a blackhawk, I still run like hell... its still REALLY easy to kill people when you're putting that many rounds out. Hand to god. It is.

Why would a mini gun have splash damage to begin with anyway? I mean seriously? I guess you could argue that if you're pelting the ground with rounds one is bound to ricochete (spelling butchered, I know) and wang you, but come on.

I will agree completely that the MEC transport is a piece of crap though, weapons and agility.  I still think if you're having trouble killing people with those minis then you're just looking for a little too much help from the game, don't take that as an insult, but for the love of god you can still let off like 8 zillion rounds before it overheats. A I M.
2006-03-22 22:26:32
deject
Got His War On
+37|6815|Golden, CO
You guys can't deny that the Miniguns on the Black Hawk were way too powerful compared to the MEC/PLA transport helos.  I don't mind that the BH guns were nerfed because they had WAY too much splash damage before.
2006-03-24 06:54:57
\o/ AfterMath
Member
+0|6710

dshak wrote:

actually, when face with a blackhawk, I still run like hell... its still REALLY easy to kill people when you're putting that many rounds out. Hand to god. It is.

Why would a mini gun have splash damage to begin with anyway? I mean seriously? I guess you could argue that if you're pelting the ground with rounds one is bound to ricochete (spelling butchered, I know) and wang you, but come on.

I will agree completely that the MEC transport is a piece of crap though, weapons and agility.  I still think if you're having trouble killing people with those minis then you're just looking for a little too much help from the game, don't take that as an insult, but for the love of god you can still let off like 8 zillion rounds before it overheats. A I M.
First off not really splash damage b/c it's can cover a football field in very few seconds if you aim at one spot you can only imagine anything standing in that area is going to be swiss cheese.

Secondly no offence taken. The reason this post was made is b/c of the fact I was aiming dead on a guy and blasting him and never once got a hit. Topped off w/ the fact my clan mate is on TS, flying the helo and holding it steady for me to kill the guy. Cross hairs dead on, and no sweeping = no kill something isn't right.

Well the scrim is tonight we're still going to run it just the same and see how things go.
2006-03-24 07:02:35
General_CoLin_Tassi
Member
+-2|6741|England, UK

-=S8M=-Phoenix wrote:

I too have noticed that the BH is now an almost worthless asset! A good team can still use it for capping flags, but everyone needs to bailout at each flag and than load back up.

I played a few Mashtuur City maps (32 player) with a great team the other day where we did just that. We own all the flags in no time at all. It made for three of the fastest map win I have ever had, but very low points.

Using it to fly around and scoring big kill points is over! EA reduced its effectiveness because of all the whiners! IMHO, EA should have had the balls to tell all the noobs to go play an RPG game instead of noobing the game for those who could handle it.
Well said and exactly right. Beef up the other choppers. The mini-gun's on the blackhawks are now a joke. Too hard to get a kill. Beef up the Mec and PLA heli guns somewhat. But the hit points on all the transport choppers should be set at between patch 1.12 and patch 1.21 settings. Its was too strong, but now its too weak. By flying fast and close to ground you can get to your objective but transport helicopter flight is, IMO, slightly too dangerous.
2006-03-24 07:38:55
KnowMeByTrailOfDead
Jackass of all Trades
+62|6722|Dayton, Ohio
Just to clarify, the reason the mini is so much less effective is the splash damage.  It is not and never was accurate, it just had almost the same splash damage radius as the GL.  By reducing the radius they effectivly have shown how inaccurate the guns are.   Any way, try working in small burst when possible, it should feel similar to using the PKM before they imporved the accuracy.
2006-03-24 07:51:41
polarbearz
Raiders of the Lost Bear
+-1,474|6830|Singapore

Hm. Its a lot worse than the .50 cals IMHO.
2006-03-24 09:39:39
General_CoLin_Tassi
Member
+-2|6741|England, UK

KnowMeByTrailOfDead wrote:

Just to clarify, the reason the mini is so much less effective is the splash damage.  It is not and never was accurate, it just had almost the same splash damage radius as the GL.  By reducing the radius they effectivly have shown how inaccurate the guns are.   Any way, try working in small burst when possible, it should feel similar to using the PKM before they imporved the accuracy.
Yep. I know about the splash damage. Now the gun is really crap. A mini gun should be devastating.
2006-03-24 10:24:36
polarbearz
Raiders of the Lost Bear
+-1,474|6830|Singapore

And everyone was bitching non-stop about it. So take it away for everyone.
2006-03-24 10:54:19
\o/ AfterMath
Member
+0|6710

polarbearz wrote:

And everyone was bitching non-stop about it. So take it away for everyone.
Again I think balance would have been the key to making "BOTH" helo's useful rather than nerf the blackhawk to what it is now.
2006-03-24 11:10:56
CTD-CaptainBuck
BLEEDING BLUE
+71|6809|Tenn
i can understand "nerfing" but rendering it a useless hunk of flying metal with blades more dangerous than its guns was retarded.

hell the other night on Oman i had one gunner and i was flying to repair our arty and take river fort. a guy was in the water(the mischievious bastard that kept blowing the arty). so instead of letting my gunner waste 600 rounds of ammo i just dipped the blackhawk into the water on top of the guy's head *pwnt*

i'm gonna try flying the BH on mashtuur and see how many ground troops i can kill by running them over
2006-03-24 12:32:53
dshak
Member
+4|6854
Okay okay, not going to get caught up in this.. but I will finally say that I do find it amusing when people say they had their crosshairs "right on someone" mini gun or otherwise, and they magically missed with hundreds of rounds. I'd be willing to bet that in 99% of these cases those crosshairs weren't right on the target. period.

However, because I wasn't there, it wasn't me, I didn't see it, blah blah... I have no right or position to claim you're full of crap, because I suppose it is entirely possible that you were locked on to this guy and somehow you're mini gun managed to shoot right through him, or whatever. could have been a glitch, who the hell knows.

All I know is, I personally have noticed no difference other than the splash, and if your corsshairs were in fact "right on him" as you claim, then you've had a different personal experience since the patch.

Finally, to the guy who said "it can cover a football field in a few seconds"... yeah, but you still have to POINT it in the direction your firing, it just doesn't hail bullets over a 100 yard radius, its a fricken gun not an air burst weapon. Sorry, but I don't think there ever should have been splash damage with the mini.
2006-03-24 13:20:36
\o/ AfterMath
Member
+0|6710

dshak wrote:

Okay okay, not going to get caught up in this.. but I will finally say that I do find it amusing when people say they had their crosshairs "right on someone" mini gun or otherwise, and they magically missed with hundreds of rounds. I'd be willing to bet that in 99% of these cases those crosshairs weren't right on the target. period.

However, because I wasn't there, it wasn't me, I didn't see it, blah blah... I have no right or position to claim you're full of crap, because I suppose it is entirely possible that you were locked on to this guy and somehow you're mini gun managed to shoot right through him, or whatever. could have been a glitch, who the hell knows.

All I know is, I personally have noticed no difference other than the splash, and if your corsshairs were in fact "right on him" as you claim, then you've had a different personal experience since the patch.

Finally, to the guy who said "it can cover a football field in a few seconds"... yeah, but you still have to POINT it in the direction your firing, it just doesn't hail bullets over a 100 yard radius, its a fricken gun not an air burst weapon. Sorry, but I don't think there ever should have been splash damage with the mini.
Well I have noticed it more than twice now.
1. time I was in the air like my first post and opening the thread. I couldn't hit the guy
2. The next time I flew solo landed so that my door was facing the enemy. The guy walked straight in my line of fire. *Key thing helo is not moving and the unit was walking directly at me, so yes crosshairs were dead on* The cross hairs were planted on the target's chest. It took nearly 2 seconds to kill a spec ops unit (keep in mind these units have no armour) The target didn't try to avoid me by running side to side either just dead on.

I thank you for your very well put statement but reguardless the guns have been dumbed down ALOT so much so that using the blackhawk like others have said is more of a risk to the USMC then it is an asset. When a mini gun can cover every inch of a football field in a straight line in a matter of seconds; Would or should a unit live if you shoot in an area the size of a bath tube? Just food for thought.

 

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