BF2S Forums Fancy_Pollux's 12 step program for REAL change.

most of these are good ideas.

2 in particular.  The car industry was struggling prior to the meltdown. Why prop up a failing business?

BN wrote:

most of these are good ideas.

2 in particular.  The car industry was struggling prior to the meltdown. Why prop up a failing business?

Not only a failing business, but one that's been dicking around for the past 50 years. It's their fault they suck so hard.

1) Disagree, should hold power in other countries, rather not fight a war on our own land.

2) Agreed, but then don't place harsh product restrictions on them like they have which is part of the cause of why they tanked.

3) Agreed.

4) Agreed.

5) Agreed.

6) Agreed. A flat tax or fair tax would be favorable.

7) Disagree. Infrastructure needs help.

8) Legalize ganja, and tax it, that would help a bit.

9) Disagree.

10) Disagree.

11) Disagree.

12) Strongly disagree, this would criple our infrastructure.

san4 wrote:

How is the government going to pay for these things without income or business taxes?

A flat tax or a fair tax. You know a tax code that the head of the IRS could understand...

Last edited by {M5}Sniper3 (2009-01-29 15:12:19)

3 and 5 go hand in hand, the fed simply couldn't survive letting the big boys go under.

The only ones I disagree with are 6 and 8. The tax system atm seems the only way of evenly burdening the populace. And 8 is just stupid. 

Also I would add 13) Reduce reliance on foreign imports

For hardcore capitalists to be handing out bail-outs to banks and private companies means that shit has really hit the fan. They're doing it because if the automotive industry were to crumble, the thousands who'd be laid off would take down everyone else with them. The situation would spiral out of control in no time. It's not because they just discovered socialism, rest assured.

Also, cars are not dead. It's merely the time to start allowing for different power sources.

1) Keep the bases that are in our national interests.  Bill the host nation for the cost of running the base, if the base is more in their interest than ours.

2) The Big 3 can fail.  Invest the bailout money targeted at the Big 3, instead in developing newer, agile, profitable, lean businesses to take the place of the old, dead, bloated white-elephant big 3.  MANY MANY developing businesses could make more productive use of that money AND make better use of the tooling and intellectual property of the defunct big-3.

3) Some of the blame for the bank failure can be placed in the 'equal opportunity' lending policies the Fed placed on banks, under threat of removing their FDIC insurance and ability to do interbank nightly loans and borrow from the Fed.  In other words, the Fed DID pretty much put a gun to the banks heads and say 'Loan to a certain percentage of poor credit record mortgage applicants of certain disadvantaged zones, or we shut you down'.   This doesn't excuse the predatory lending practices and greed that dominated some bank policies - but some of the smaller banks did get forced into the NINJA (No Income No Job Applicant) mortgage market.

4) If there's going to be money injected into the economy, it should NOT be a bailout for bad behavior.  If we're going to dump money into the economy, make it for promising objectives with a hope of returning moch more to the national economy than was invested.
- College Tuition Loan Repayment for real degrees, (engineering, science, vocational associates degrees, medicine & nursing)
- Highway and Roads (and make it illegal for any highway to charge a toll if it is built with state and federal taxpayer funds.. CHICAGO)
- Small businesses with a promising business plan (not for stupid shit like a winter snow cone stand in Anchorage..)
- Development of national natural resources (Geothermal plants in Montana/Wyoming/Hawaii/Alaska, Coal-to-Diesel plants, sustainable farmland)
- Identification of future natural resources to lease to private business (Forests, good soil, mineral deposits, underground water tables)

5) Not eliminate, but dramatically change the nature of the beast

6) Impractical and unworkable to eliminate income and business tax.  Change who pays what, and elimintate the off-shore shell game that big business plays.  If you're a multi-billion dollar US company, but are headquartered out of a PO Box in Trinidad & Tobago for tax purposes -- then GTFO of America and go build all of your facilities there!

7) Cars and transportation are necessary in the USA.  This is a VERY big country, if you do not live in a large city.  If you don't live in a coastal state, it is impossible to do business without private transportation.

8) I'll go for that, on two conditions. 
- 1) Regardless of what drugs someone is on, they are 100% legally, financially, and medically responsible for their own actions. Somebody gets stupid and violent on PCP or LSD, and nobody gets to cry when someone else drops their ass with a few well-placed bullets.
- 2) Get addicted to a drug, it's on you.  It's not the taxpayer footing the bill for your detox.  You become a fuckup no-job, no-life unemployable 'tard because of your drugs - we revoke your citizenship and tell you to GTFO the country.  Canada and Mexico are closest. g'luck.

9) Reboot the war on terror.  Change it from an Orwellian prop to scare the population into whatever stupid prop the politicians want.
If there are bad-guys trying to kill American citizens or threatening our allies - make sure we have the capability to identify, find, and eliminate those threats.  In other words, drop the pretty speeches, empty rhetoric, political posturing, and meaningless cruise missiles into empty camps -- and spend the money to enable a Spec Ops ODA to go in and give them the F4 (find 'em, fix 'em, fuck 'em, forget 'em).

We won the Cold War with far less stress on the civilian population, and under FAR greater threat from the other side.  We do not need to scare the civilians shitless over the current batch of dumbass islamofascits.

10) Maintain a military on a peaceful footing, with the capability to deploy to any enemy's doorstep and kick the shit out of them at will.  Big nations, or little pissant jihadi group.. and everyone in between.  Dramatically stop footing a large chunk of the bill for allied countries that can damn well pay for their own defense (Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Europe, Korea, Japan, England, Poland.. and pretty much the whole of NATO can get by with a small military, because they know the USA will come running if anyone sneezes too loudly in their direction).

11) Separation of Church & State. To add, churches get to pay property & income taxes just like any other corporation.  If your charitable good works make part of your operation eligible for Non-Profit Organization status - good for you.  Otherwise, you pay taxes like everyone else.
- Catholics, Hebrews, and Muslims have an embassy, like any other national entity. You have your own holy nation/cities (Holy See, Israel, and Mecca) and represent a few billion people - you get dealt with like the big boys. Especially when you screw up, try to get favors from our government, or want to lease some property in the USA. 
- You think your religious laws take precedence over national laws - then renounce your US citizenship and go see if your religion's embassy will take you in as a refugee.  Israel will take you, probably not the other two.

12) Increase carbon tax ONLY if ALL of the funds go towards small business and/or university  R&D into real & practical alternative energy sources.

Alternative energy would do more for our national security than continuing our massive military spending. And let's get real, we're not gonna cut back on oil significantly until it runs out, or drastic measures are taken.

Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2009-01-29 16:59:50)

I've said many times - maybe not here though - that you cannot move to alternative energy sources simply by slapping on a carbon tax or introducing an ETS. You have to do more, much more, than that.

oug wrote:

For hardcore capitalists to be handing out bail-outs to banks and private companies means that shit has really hit the fan. They're doing it because if the automotive industry were to crumble, the thousands who'd be laid off would take down everyone else with them. The situation would spiral out of control in no time. It's not because they just discovered socialism, rest assured.

Also, cars are not dead. It's merely the time to start allowing for different power sources.

Mass transit is the future of transportation. Our population is only going to grow larger and roads are only going to become more congested. We should not be using resources trying to sustain this failing, inefficient system. Instead, those resources should be used to eliminate the need for cars and create a more easily sustainable infrastructure: stop urban sprawl and develop mass transit. Our politicians are so narrow-minded and short-sighted that they blindly support the bailout due to the amount of jobs at risk rather than look at the bigger picture and plan for the future.

Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2009-01-30 12:04:11)

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

oug wrote:

For hardcore capitalists to be handing out bail-outs to banks and private companies means that shit has really hit the fan. They're doing it because if the automotive industry were to crumble, the thousands who'd be laid off would take down everyone else with them. The situation would spiral out of control in no time. It's not because they just discovered socialism, rest assured.

Also, cars are not dead. It's merely the time to start allowing for different power sources.

Mass transit is the future of transportation. Our population is only going to grow larger and roads are only going to become more congested. We should not be using resources trying to sustain this failing, inefficient system. Instead, those resources should be used to eliminate the need for cars and create a more easily sustainable infrastructure: stop urban sprawl and develop mass transit. Our politicians are so narrow-minded and short-sighted that they blindly support the bailout due to the amount of jobs at risk rather than look at the bigger picture and plan for the future.

The main problem with mass-transit is that it's only cost efficient in densely populated areas. Take New York for instance. In lower New York, Westchester, NYC, and Lawn-Guy-Lind, there are train stations five miles from anywhere. In upstate New York, there are hardly any. This is because there aren't many people living there, so few would take a train. Also trains can only go on preset rails, where as cars can go to where ever.

While I do agree, we need to expand trains. In urban environments they are vastly superior over cars, but the US has vast amounts of sparsely populated areas where they wouldn't be useful. The purpose of Mass-transit is for Mass-people, which allot of places just don't have.

DoctaStrangelove wrote:

The main problem with mass-transit is that it's only cost efficient in densely populated areas. Take New York for instance. In lower New York, Westchester, NYC, and Lawn-Guy-Lind, there are train stations five miles from anywhere. In upstate New York, there are hardly any. This is because there aren't many people living there, so few would take a train. Also trains can only go on preset rails, where as cars can go to where ever.

While I do agree, we need to expand trains. In urban environments they are vastly superior over cars, but the US has vast amounts of sparsely populated areas where they wouldn't be useful. The purpose of Mass-transit is for Mass-people, which allot of places just don't have.

Which is why we need to eliminate urban sprawl. We are creating a vast, unmaintainable infrastructure.

Braddock wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

3) Do not bail out banks. Predatory lending during the housing bubble helped create this mess, but they are instead rewarded with parties and vacations, while the tax payer receives the punishment.

On a realistic note though, what would happen if the banks weren't bailed out? Those of us who are lucky to get to the bank on time get their money out, everyone else has to do without and we all go back to an agrarian lifestyle?

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