Christianity did conquer a lot of the world, but Islam conquered more area and would often be more brutal about it.Uzique wrote:
But I do agree, everyone could learn a few things from Christians... like how to more effectively and efficiently gain land, influence and power through the mass-murder and indoctrination of entire populations. Don't hide behind the 'in modern times' excuse either, we weren't a degenerative sub-human race at the time of The Crusades or during the Spanish Inquisition-- same race of the same people driven by the same greedy motives. No religion can really assume a superior stance over the other when it comes to pointing the 'You Dun Bad!' finger...
So they're a more successful religion, as far as religions go.
I'm still gonna stand by this:
I'm still gonna stand by this:
.Myself wrote:
No religion can really assume a superior stance over the other when it comes to pointing the 'You Dun Bad!' finger...
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
For the most part, I agree... if you define success as spreading as far as you can. A lot of religions seem to see conversion as a primary agenda, but there are some that actually discourage conversion (like Judaism).Uzique wrote:
So they're a more successful religion, as far as religions go.
I'm still gonna stand by this:.Myself wrote:
No religion can really assume a superior stance over the other when it comes to pointing the 'You Dun Bad!' finger...
I'll also agree that pointing the finger is somewhat moot when looking at the atrocities done in the name of religion, although, it is still relevant to compare the differences between religions in terms of eras.
There's really no denying that Islam is currently in a more violent phase than Christianity is.
Interesting. I have heard similar opinions (though I think the person I talked to was Pakistani, i'm not sure) Basically acknowledging that there are a lot of problem muslims there...he used the term "hard liners" which is basically just a euphemism.[TUF]Catbox wrote:
I talked to an Indian guy who works at 7 eleven when i stopped after work tonight(he is a very nice,peaceful guy normally)
.... I said... hey how's it going... Sucks about India... he said... my family is from Bombay and they are ok...
he then said... it's the muslims... they are all terrorists... Pakistan is all terrrorists...these were kids that were brainwashed by Osama Bin Laden.... I didn't know what to say....lol... i was like...yeah...uhhh... I'm seeing now why India and Pakistan don't get along too well...
This was before the recent attack -- it was last year when the Red Mosque trouble was in the news
I know, obvious....but it does seem different to hear such observations from those who lived there or are directly from there.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Well, that is a very sanitary and polite if not completely understated observation Turqouise. How very PC of you.Turquoise wrote:
There's really no denying that Islam is currently in a more violent phase than Christianity is.
NOT exactly, the wording I woulda chose however.
Well, here in Iraq at the MWR there is an Indian gentleman ( who is also a very nice and kind and a gentle soul) that voices these exact same opinions that you have written. His family is from Mumbai but everyone is fine.Vax wrote:
Interesting. I have heard similar opinions (though I think the person I talked to was Pakistani, i'm not sure) Basically acknowledging that there are a lot of problem muslims there...he used the term "hard liners" which is basically just a euphemism.[TUF]Catbox wrote:
I talked to an Indian guy who works at 7 eleven when i stopped after work tonight(he is a very nice,peaceful guy normally)
.... I said... hey how's it going... Sucks about India... he said... my family is from Bombay and they are ok...
he then said... it's the muslims... they are all terrorists... Pakistan is all terrrorists...these were kids that were brainwashed by Osama Bin Laden.... I didn't know what to say....lol... i was like...yeah...uhhh... I'm seeing now why India and Pakistan don't get along too well...
This was before the recent attack -- it was last year when the Red Mosque trouble was in the news
I know, obvious....but it does seem different to hear such observations from those who lived there or are directly from there.
India should get out of Iraq!
...
...
interesting article here, short but something different, it suggests some of the evidence is being ignored and that Pakistan is just a bogey men, just read
http://www.daily.pk/politics/politicaln … nored.html
http://www.daily.pk/politics/politicaln … nored.html
Last edited by rammunition (2008-12-02 02:21:54)
hopefully the people of Pakistan.... the peaceful ones .... and the peaceful people of India...the ones that are... will get together and crush the fuck out of these radical retards... human beings want to live in peace... no matter what part of the world you're from...rammunition wrote:
interesting article here, short but something different, it suggests some of the evidence is being ignored and that Pakistan is just a bogey men, just read
http://www.daily.pk/politics/politicaln … nored.html
Love is the answer
Some rich £315m man was shot aswell.
#rekt
pakistan is a turd world country anyway.
I wonder how long it will be before someone makes a "Mumbai Massacre" FPS...
TBH what they need right now is a cricket tournament
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
A few of the England players are refusing to go there i thinkSpark wrote:
TBH what they need right now is a cricket tournament
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
cricket australia banned our players from going for the series coming up.FatherTed wrote:
A few of the England players are refusing to go there i thinkSpark wrote:
TBH what they need right now is a cricket tournament
no, what they need is to have pakistan control their country better. christ if you want to travel in some areas north of crotchie, the govt requires you to rent a pick up truck full of escort soldiers. wtf is that? no surprise crotchie is about one step bellow tijuana for the most part.Spark wrote:
TBH what they need right now is a cricket tournament
What's crotchie, is that some sort of slang for karachi or wut r u on about sir
ur smrtMekstizzle wrote:
is that some sort of slang for karachi
This is from a friend of a friend of my dads
"This is the unfortunate experience of a friend of ours. Everyone must fight
for the cause of peace and help eliminate such incidents and people..
Dear friends,
First, I wanted to thank you all for the incredible concern and support that
you’ll have given me over the past few days which have been among the most
emotionally and psychologically draining of my life.
By the grace of God my father was rescued from the Oberoi on Friday with two
(minor) bullet wounds and is now speedily recovering. He did however lose
the two best friends he was dining with that fateful night (who are like
godfathers to me). We also lost a lot of other friends and colleagues and
have watched our beloved city reduced to a war zone and brought to its
knees.
On Wednesday night, my father and his two friends arrived at the Indian
restaurant on the first floor of the Oberoi Hotel for dinner at about 10pm.
They had barely sat down when they heard gun shots in the lobby of the
hotel. The terrorists, armed with AK-47s, grenades and plastic explosives,
had entered the hotel and were executing everybody sitting in the ground
floor restaurant. Realizing the situation, the staff of the restaurant my
father was in asked them to quickly exit through the kitchen. As the guests
tried to rush into the kitchen, one terrorist burst into the restaurant and
began to shoot anyone that remained in the restaurant. At this point my
father was in the kitchen and along with his two friends rushed to the fire
exit. They had barely descended a few steps when they were trapped from both
ends by terrorists.
The terrorists then rounded up anyone alive (about 20 people) and made them
climb the service staircase to the 18th floor. On reaching the 18th floor
landing they made the people line up against a wall. One terrorist then
positioned himself on the staircase going up from the landing and the other
on the staircase going down from the landing. Then, in a scene right out of
the Holocaust, they simultaneously opened fire on the people. My father was
towards the center of the line with his two friends on either side. Out of
reflex, or presence of mind, he ducked as soon as the firing began. One
bullet grazed his neck, and he fell to the floor as his two friends and
several other bodies piled on top of him. The terrorists then pumped another
series of bullets into the heap of bodies to finish the job. This time a
bullet hit my father in the back hip. Bent almost in double, crushed by the
weight of the bodies above him, and suffocating in the torrent of blood
rushing down on him from the various bodies my father held on for ten
minutes while the terrorists left the area. When he finally had the courage
to wiggle his arms he found that there were four other survivors in the
room. They communicated to each other by touch as they were too afraid to
make a sound. My father moved just enough to allow himself room to breathe
and then lay still. The survivors passed over twelve hours lying still in
the heap of bodies too afraid to move. They constantly heard gunfire and
hand grenades going off in the other parts of the hotel. They feared that
any noise would bring the terrorists back. After approximately twelve hours,
the terrorists returned with a camera and flashlight and joked and laughed
as they filmed what they thought was a pile of dead bodies. They then moved
to the landing below where they set up explosives. On their departing, my
father decided that it was too risky to remain where they were due to the
explosives. Along with the other three survivors he climbed the rest of the
stairwell, where they discovered a large HVAC plant room in which they
decided to take shelter. They passed the rest of the siege hiding in this
room trying to get the attention of the outside world by waving a makeshift
flag out of the window. They drank sips of dirty water from the Air
Conditioning unit to survive. Finally on Friday morning they were spotted by
a commando rescue team that was storming the building and were evacuated to
safety and taken to the hospital.
This is just one of the countless horror stories that unfolded in those two
days. There are many stories of entire families being wiped out while eating
their dinner, or young kids losing both parents, or pregnant women being
shot while pleading for their lives, or hostages being beaten to death with
the butt of a rifle so that their faces were unrecognizable. The terrorists
attacked on every level. They killed middle class workers when they shot up
the railway station, they killed the elite in the hotels, they killed
tourists and kids as they ate in a café, and they killed the sick and dying
when they stormed three hospitals. They shot people in the roads, in
stations, in hotels, and even entered an apartment building. They killed
Indians, Americans, Britons, Israelis, and several other nationalities. They
killed men, women, children, policemen, firemen, doctors, patients. This was
systematic, cold-blooded, slaughter.
We have lost a lot of friends, colleagues, and acquaintances. Every person
who lives in South Mumbai has a story about how either they or someone they
love either died or had a narrow escape. The true extent of the horror will
only make itself clear over the next few days.
Mumbai is a proud city and we pride ourselves on bouncing back from any
adversity. We survive and prosper despite all the difficulties placed on us.
We are no strangers to terror and have had to pick up the pieces and move on
after several attacks. This time however, the sheer scale and audacity
brought the city to its knees. The openness of our society, the bustling
hoards in our train stations, the vibrancy of our news media, and the
thousands of tourists, diplomats, and business leaders packing our hotels
was used against us to devastating effect.
In the end one tries to make sense of all this. Barack Obama said about the
killers of 9/11: "My powers of empathy, my ability to reach into another's
heart, cannot penetrate the blank stares of those who would murder innocents
with such serene satisfaction."
Unfortunately, this is becoming an all familiar scene in today’s world.
While I cannot understand, I recognize again and again the hatred, anger,
and desperation of the terrorists and the cold blooded, targeted,
ruthlessness of those that dispatch them. They respect nothing but their own
twisted beliefs and to achieve them have declared war on an entire way of
life. India now finds itself as a major front of this global war.
How do we fight such hate? How do we inject humanity into such monstrosity?
How do we convince those who think they kill in god’s name that no God
would condone such barbarity? How do we maintain our own values and humanity
when faced with such hate and provocation?
Over the next week as we say goodbye to those we lost and help those that
survive, Mumbai and India will ask themselves these questions. I hope the
rest of the world does too.
Thanks again for all your thoughts and prayers. "
"This is the unfortunate experience of a friend of ours. Everyone must fight
for the cause of peace and help eliminate such incidents and people..
Dear friends,
First, I wanted to thank you all for the incredible concern and support that
you’ll have given me over the past few days which have been among the most
emotionally and psychologically draining of my life.
By the grace of God my father was rescued from the Oberoi on Friday with two
(minor) bullet wounds and is now speedily recovering. He did however lose
the two best friends he was dining with that fateful night (who are like
godfathers to me). We also lost a lot of other friends and colleagues and
have watched our beloved city reduced to a war zone and brought to its
knees.
On Wednesday night, my father and his two friends arrived at the Indian
restaurant on the first floor of the Oberoi Hotel for dinner at about 10pm.
They had barely sat down when they heard gun shots in the lobby of the
hotel. The terrorists, armed with AK-47s, grenades and plastic explosives,
had entered the hotel and were executing everybody sitting in the ground
floor restaurant. Realizing the situation, the staff of the restaurant my
father was in asked them to quickly exit through the kitchen. As the guests
tried to rush into the kitchen, one terrorist burst into the restaurant and
began to shoot anyone that remained in the restaurant. At this point my
father was in the kitchen and along with his two friends rushed to the fire
exit. They had barely descended a few steps when they were trapped from both
ends by terrorists.
The terrorists then rounded up anyone alive (about 20 people) and made them
climb the service staircase to the 18th floor. On reaching the 18th floor
landing they made the people line up against a wall. One terrorist then
positioned himself on the staircase going up from the landing and the other
on the staircase going down from the landing. Then, in a scene right out of
the Holocaust, they simultaneously opened fire on the people. My father was
towards the center of the line with his two friends on either side. Out of
reflex, or presence of mind, he ducked as soon as the firing began. One
bullet grazed his neck, and he fell to the floor as his two friends and
several other bodies piled on top of him. The terrorists then pumped another
series of bullets into the heap of bodies to finish the job. This time a
bullet hit my father in the back hip. Bent almost in double, crushed by the
weight of the bodies above him, and suffocating in the torrent of blood
rushing down on him from the various bodies my father held on for ten
minutes while the terrorists left the area. When he finally had the courage
to wiggle his arms he found that there were four other survivors in the
room. They communicated to each other by touch as they were too afraid to
make a sound. My father moved just enough to allow himself room to breathe
and then lay still. The survivors passed over twelve hours lying still in
the heap of bodies too afraid to move. They constantly heard gunfire and
hand grenades going off in the other parts of the hotel. They feared that
any noise would bring the terrorists back. After approximately twelve hours,
the terrorists returned with a camera and flashlight and joked and laughed
as they filmed what they thought was a pile of dead bodies. They then moved
to the landing below where they set up explosives. On their departing, my
father decided that it was too risky to remain where they were due to the
explosives. Along with the other three survivors he climbed the rest of the
stairwell, where they discovered a large HVAC plant room in which they
decided to take shelter. They passed the rest of the siege hiding in this
room trying to get the attention of the outside world by waving a makeshift
flag out of the window. They drank sips of dirty water from the Air
Conditioning unit to survive. Finally on Friday morning they were spotted by
a commando rescue team that was storming the building and were evacuated to
safety and taken to the hospital.
This is just one of the countless horror stories that unfolded in those two
days. There are many stories of entire families being wiped out while eating
their dinner, or young kids losing both parents, or pregnant women being
shot while pleading for their lives, or hostages being beaten to death with
the butt of a rifle so that their faces were unrecognizable. The terrorists
attacked on every level. They killed middle class workers when they shot up
the railway station, they killed the elite in the hotels, they killed
tourists and kids as they ate in a café, and they killed the sick and dying
when they stormed three hospitals. They shot people in the roads, in
stations, in hotels, and even entered an apartment building. They killed
Indians, Americans, Britons, Israelis, and several other nationalities. They
killed men, women, children, policemen, firemen, doctors, patients. This was
systematic, cold-blooded, slaughter.
We have lost a lot of friends, colleagues, and acquaintances. Every person
who lives in South Mumbai has a story about how either they or someone they
love either died or had a narrow escape. The true extent of the horror will
only make itself clear over the next few days.
Mumbai is a proud city and we pride ourselves on bouncing back from any
adversity. We survive and prosper despite all the difficulties placed on us.
We are no strangers to terror and have had to pick up the pieces and move on
after several attacks. This time however, the sheer scale and audacity
brought the city to its knees. The openness of our society, the bustling
hoards in our train stations, the vibrancy of our news media, and the
thousands of tourists, diplomats, and business leaders packing our hotels
was used against us to devastating effect.
In the end one tries to make sense of all this. Barack Obama said about the
killers of 9/11: "My powers of empathy, my ability to reach into another's
heart, cannot penetrate the blank stares of those who would murder innocents
with such serene satisfaction."
Unfortunately, this is becoming an all familiar scene in today’s world.
While I cannot understand, I recognize again and again the hatred, anger,
and desperation of the terrorists and the cold blooded, targeted,
ruthlessness of those that dispatch them. They respect nothing but their own
twisted beliefs and to achieve them have declared war on an entire way of
life. India now finds itself as a major front of this global war.
How do we fight such hate? How do we inject humanity into such monstrosity?
How do we convince those who think they kill in god’s name that no God
would condone such barbarity? How do we maintain our own values and humanity
when faced with such hate and provocation?
Over the next week as we say goodbye to those we lost and help those that
survive, Mumbai and India will ask themselves these questions. I hope the
rest of the world does too.
Thanks again for all your thoughts and prayers. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne … india.html
He claims he’s from Pakistan, Pakistan claims there’s no proof. Truth serum time?Police hope to discover whether gunman Azam Amir Kasab came from Pakistan through the use of “narcoanalysis” – a practise banned in most democracies.
The technique was used during the Cold War before it emerged that barbiturate sodium pentothal induced hallucinations, delusions and psychotic manifestations.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
But you can't do that! Its inhumane! He killed people but its inhumane to make him give up the information!Kmarion wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/3546047/Mumbai-attacks-Terror-suspect-to-be-injected-with-truth-drug-bombay-india.htmlHe claims he’s from Pakistan, Pakistan claims there’s no proof. Truth serum time?Police hope to discover whether gunman Azam Amir Kasab came from Pakistan through the use of “narcoanalysis” – a practise banned in most democracies.
The technique was used during the Cold War before it emerged that barbiturate sodium pentothal induced hallucinations, delusions and psychotic manifestations.
thats torture sir. please do not condone torture.Kmarion wrote:
Truth serum time?
I don't consider it anywhere near as bad as water-boarding and the like but the International community takes a dim view of it.usmarine wrote:
thats torture sir. please do not condone torture.Kmarion wrote:
Truth serum time?
i was being........kill em dammit. nuff said.Braddock wrote:
I don't consider it anywhere near as bad as water-boarding and the like but the International community takes a dim view of it.usmarine wrote:
thats torture sir. please do not condone torture.Kmarion wrote:
Truth serum time?