Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6425|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

There is a reason the market isn't opening up. Do you think they don't want more supply? It also cost billions to build a refinery. Given the current political atmosphere and attitude towards oil why would an energy company invest that kind of money into a limited future? Nothing impacts the cost of fuel as much as the decisions of OPEC. This is a fact. To be competitive a company needs to be able to control it's expenses. Cheaper fuel will only come when the energy industry can compete amongst itself. Right now there is no competition. These are the basic rules of economics. The fundamental reasons for current price is fixed by foreign entities. Like I said, under current anti-trust laws this would not be possible in the states. I don't think I can write it out any simpler. I know the thought of giving a company more control is scary for you. But understand they will be waging a price war against each other to attract customers. This always benefits the market.
I'm sure you heard about that refinery they're going to build in South Dakota.  Once it's finished, it should help out some.

Other than that, you must realize that a lot of the reason why refineries aren't built very often is because no one wants to deal with the resulting pollution in their backyard.  South Dakota is a rare example of a local population supporting the construction of a refinery.

If more locals were ok with having a refinery built in their area, then half of the battle would be won right there.  Until that changes, however, it's going to be a very slow process of adaptation.  The only control I'd like to see is more regulation on oil speculation.  Once that's done, then oil won't rise so fast in value.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6620|132 and Bush

Band aide fixes.. we both know that. Well, at least from what we know now.


As it is right now refineries are only operating at around 80%. Well below normal levels. We need to get the speculators out of the equation. Most people would be surprised to know that supply was up while demand was down last month. Consumers were screwed over for the sake of being screwed over.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6425|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

Band aide fixes.. we both know that. Well, at least from what we know now.


As it is right now refineries are only operating at around 80%. Well below normal levels. We need to get the speculators out of the equation. Most people would be surprised to know that supply was up while demand was down last month. Consumers were screwed over for the sake of being screwed over.
The only way speculators will be somewhat out of the way involves giving the government some control, not companies.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6620|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Band aide fixes.. we both know that. Well, at least from what we know now.


As it is right now refineries are only operating at around 80%. Well below normal levels. We need to get the speculators out of the equation. Most people would be surprised to know that supply was up while demand was down last month. Consumers were screwed over for the sake of being screwed over.
The only way speculators will be somewhat out of the way involves giving the government some control, not companies.
That's almost worse in my mind. Think about it. When the Fed cuts the rates it depreciates the dollar. Oil is traded on the dollar. Nefarious agendas would ensue... lol.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6425|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Band aide fixes.. we both know that. Well, at least from what we know now.


As it is right now refineries are only operating at around 80%. Well below normal levels. We need to get the speculators out of the equation. Most people would be surprised to know that supply was up while demand was down last month. Consumers were screwed over for the sake of being screwed over.
The only way speculators will be somewhat out of the way involves giving the government some control, not companies.
That's almost worse in my mind. Think about it. When the Fed cuts the rates it depreciates the dollar. Oil is traded on the dollar. Nefarious agendas would ensue... lol.
I was just talking about mandating a higher percentage of oil futures must be bought without loans.  What's going on in the oil commodities market is very similar to what happened before the stock market crash.  These speculators are buying oil "on margin."  I think speculators should at least have to put up 50% of the money for their trades.  Currently, they borrow a ridiculously high percentage (something like 80 to 90%).
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6620|132 and Bush

Given the fact that their speculation goes against the basic laws of supply and demand is disturbing. Even when you consider the weak dollar (it actually gained ground last month as well). It doesn't add up proportionally.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6425|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

Given the fact that their speculation goes against the basic laws of supply and demand is disturbing. Even when you consider the weak dollar (it actually gained ground last month as well). It doesn't add up proportionally.
The problem is that, like Communism, pure capitalism doesn't work.  A functional capitalism requires some government intervention to keep greed-crazed people from fucking things up (like what happened in the mortgage market).
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6620|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Given the fact that their speculation goes against the basic laws of supply and demand is disturbing. Even when you consider the weak dollar (it actually gained ground last month as well). It doesn't add up proportionally.
The problem is that, like Communism, pure capitalism doesn't work.  A functional capitalism requires some government intervention to keep greed-crazed people from fucking things up (like what happened in the mortgage market).
I explained this. The free market does not function when the primary cost is based on (basically) foreign monopolies. We don't have pure capitalism here. Contrary to popular belief we have laws that regulate business practices. Prices gouging, price fixing, and monopolies will land you in jail in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitrust_law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6425|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Given the fact that their speculation goes against the basic laws of supply and demand is disturbing. Even when you consider the weak dollar (it actually gained ground last month as well). It doesn't add up proportionally.
The problem is that, like Communism, pure capitalism doesn't work.  A functional capitalism requires some government intervention to keep greed-crazed people from fucking things up (like what happened in the mortgage market).
I explained this. The free market does not function when the primary cost is based on (basically) foreign monopolies. We don't have pure capitalism here. Contrary to popular belief we have laws that regulate business practices. Prices gouging, price fixing, and monopolies will land you in jail here.
Well yeah, that's what I'm saying though.  The laws we have in place are generally good, but we need to expand on them.  With oil, you're correct about the foreign oligarchy involved.  But even aside from that, there is not enough regulation in speculative markets.  These people get away with the same loan mayhem that subprime lenders did.

The sad truth of the matter is that we can't trust the judgment of the average investor or average consumer.  Certain laws must be there to limit foolhardy behavior.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6620|132 and Bush

The current laws are solid. Unfortunately our enforcement is inconsistent. Independence is really the only way to go. It clears up a lot of this mess.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6694|Canberra, AUS

The#1Spot wrote:

SealXo wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

so how is a H2 (1mpg) worse.

I don't get it.
The nickel mining needed for the motors is a very very polluting process.
More polluting than a hummer ever could be

I also dont know how hydrogen could work if it emits water vapor wouldnt that rise humitidy which rises global warming?
Wow another global warming loser.
Him and the rest of the world...
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Nappy
Apprentice
+151|6249|NSW, Australia

SealXo wrote:

Like I said above if hydrogen emits only "cool clean water vapor" then wouldnt that raise humidity?
stick a water bottle over your exhaust pipe
jamiecracker
Member
+17|6767|Wollongong,Australia
hummers are crap they are pigs on and off the road

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