Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6981
Atheism is not organised religion, no.  But it is a religion.  Same as agnosticism.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7063

Bubbalo wrote:

Atheism is not organised religion, no.  But it is a religion.  Same as agnosticism.
i disagree bubbalo.  wouldnt you consider that as a matter of personal opinion rather than stone cold fact, no?  i myself dont even like labeling my religious beliefs (or lack there of)  if you put a gun to my head ill tell you im secular or areligious
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6981
Religion is simply the definition of you belief in a higher power, even if your belief is non.  A person who is secular is not part of organised religion.  It is impossible to not have a religious belief.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,072|7191|PNW

Bubbalo wrote:

It is impossible to not have a religious belief.
That is exactly the opposite sentiment to that of many atheists here. They'll continue to deny that while they work on 'bringing us religious into their flock.'

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2007-03-06 04:05:05)

ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|7069

I feel I need to correct some glaring errors that people are making here. The Religion of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is not called Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, it's called Pastafarianism.
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|7116|NJ
Well the interesting thing is that scientology does follow the same formula as many of the older religions. It has an almighty power, a way of life, and demons.

So what makes it completely different from the older religions?
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6787|Columbus, Ohio

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Well the interesting thing is that scientology does follow the same formula as many of the older religions. It has an almighty power, a way of life, and demons.

So what makes it completely different from the older religions?
I have been told they try and take peoples money.  Never saw the catholic church do that.

/sarcasm
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|7116|NJ
Yeah cause donations with money amounts on the envolope isn't taking peoples money..
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6981

ghettoperson wrote:

I feel I need to correct some glaring errors that people are making here. The Religion of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is not called Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, it's called Pastafarianism.
Actually, both are acceptable.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6981

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Well the interesting thing is that scientology does follow the same formula as many of the older religions. It has an almighty power, a way of life, and demons.
Other than the fact that you pay to increase in status and you can end up dead if you aren't careful?

I'd have to say the biggest part would be that it's started by a sci-fi writer who once said that the best way to make cash would be to start a religion, and that it features flying saucers as holy vessels.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|7104|United States of America

usmarine2007 wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Well the interesting thing is that scientology does follow the same formula as many of the older religions. It has an almighty power, a way of life, and demons.

So what makes it completely different from the older religions?
I have been told they try and take peoples money.  Never saw the catholic church do that.

/sarcasm
And those priests sure are all rollin in a Benz whilst smokin a J and showin off their bling. /sarcasm
They're not the indulgences of hundreds of years back. The collection is used for upkeep of the church such as bills or repairs and those expenses but don't forget about charity. So many charity organizations are at least religously based. I remember a few years back my church had a drive that raised more than one million dollars for charity.
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|7116|NJ
OH I'm not defending Scientology at all, I'm saying that all religions ask for money and all organized religions are businesses.

Well we have the pearly gates in Christianity?

Also at desertfox, that's recently who knows where Scientology will end up 2000 years from now. Also no man or charity is perfect, they raised a million dollars but you should check to see if all that money goes to the people it's suppose to.

Last edited by cpt.fass1 (2007-03-06 16:01:56)

djphetal
Go Ducks.
+346|6755|Oregon

Bubbalo wrote:

Atheism is not organised religion, no.  But it is a religion.  Same as agnosticism.
Religion (n.)
1.    a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Atheism is a belief that there is no god, mankind came from ____ (science is still looking into the beginning of the universe), blah blah blah...
and then notice "usually" or "often" with the other two.
Those describe organized religion...
so yeah. bubbalo is right here.
Agnosticism is almost not though...
debatable... definitely debatable...
Drakef
Cheeseburger Logicist
+117|6782|Vancouver
Atheism is a lack of belief in deities. It is not a belief that there is no god nor belief in science. It is not a religion. It is not a set of beliefs, and there are no set of beliefs to follow. There are no rules to being an atheist.
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6888

cpt.fass1 wrote:

OH I'm not defending Scientology at all, I'm saying that all religions ask for money and all organized religions are businesses.
Yes but in Scientology it is mandatory. In other major religions it is expected but not enforced.

cpt.fass wrote:

Also at desertfox, that's recently who knows where Scientology will end up 2000 years from now. Also no man or charity is perfect, they raised a million dollars but you should check to see if all that money goes to the people it's suppose to.
The money raised by Scientology goes mostly into the pockets of the very high Scientologists (I believe it is called OT8) and also to cater to the celebrities in Scientology, this is because Hubbard said that Celebrities (like he though himself as) were more important than average people just because they were more well known. An example of Scientology's celebrity preference is the following

Wikipedia wrote:

A Sea Org staffer ... was taken along to do personal cooking for Tom Cruise and Miscavige at the expense of Scientology not for profit religious organizations. This left only 3 cooks at [Gold Base] to cook for 800 people three times a day ... apartment cottages were built for the use of John Travolta, Kirstie Alley, Edgar Winter, Priscilla Presley and other Scientology celebrities who are carefully prevented from finding out the real truth about the Scientology organization ... Miscavige decided to redo the meadow in beautiful flowers; Tens of thousands of dollars were spent on the project so that Cruise and Nicole Kidman could romp there. However, Miscavige inspected the project and didn't like it. So the whole meadow was plowed up, destroyed, re-plowed and sown with plain grass.
In that article wikipedia references one of the exscientologists who was in the team who planted the flowers.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6981

Drakef wrote:

Atheism...................is not a belief that there is no god
Yes, it is.  That is the definition of Atheism.

Drakef wrote:

It is not a set of beliefs
Yes, it is.  The set consists of "there is no higher being whatsoever.

Drakef wrote:

There are no rules to being an atheist.
Which is why it isn't an organised religion.
EVieira
Member
+105|6898|Lutenblaag, Molvania

Bubbalo wrote:

Drakef wrote:

Atheism...................is not a belief that there is no god
Yes, it is.  That is the definition of Atheism.
It is one form of Atheism, still not a religion

Bubbalo wrote:

Drakef wrote:

It is not a set of beliefs
Yes, it is.  The set consists of "there is no higher being whatsoever.
Still not a religion. There are scientists with a set of beliefs called "Theory of Evolution". That does not make the theory of evolution a religion.

Bubbalo wrote:

Drakef wrote:

There are no rules to being an atheist.
Which is why it isn't an organised religion.
Organized religion means having an hierarchical structure of people inside the religion's church, and usually collecting donations from the faithful to keep this structure going. It has nothing to do with the "rules".

And anyway, atheism is still not a religion....
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|7104|United States of America

EVieira wrote:

And anyway, atheism is still not a religion....
creed-noun
1. any system, doctrine, or formula of religious belief, as of a denomination. 
2. any system or codification of belief or of opinion. 

Is it a creed?
EVieira
Member
+105|6898|Lutenblaag, Molvania

DesertFox423 wrote:

EVieira wrote:

And anyway, atheism is still not a religion....
creed-noun
1. any system, doctrine, or formula of religious belief, as of a denomination. 
2. any system or codification of belief or of opinion. 

Is it a creed?
1. Its not a system, nor doctrine nor formula of religious belief. So it doesn't fall on this definition.

2. Its not a system nor a codification of belief or of opinion. There is no codification (such as the bible) or system (such as mass, rituals and others). So it dosen't fit here either.

Therefore, its not a creed either. It is, though, a personal opinion, or belief if you must, on the existence or not of a higher being.
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6888
Wow a sticky got derailed. Is this th first time this happened?

Last edited by doctastrangelove1964 (2007-03-07 13:43:31)

Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6981

EVieira wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Drakef wrote:

Atheism...................is not a belief that there is no god
Yes, it is.  That is the definition of Atheism.
It is one form of Atheism, still not a religion
No, that is Atheism.  End of story.  Anything else would be something other than atheism.

EVieira wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Drakef wrote:

It is not a set of beliefs
Yes, it is.  The set consists of "there is no higher being whatsoever.
Still not a religion. There are scientists with a set of beliefs called "Theory of Evolution". That does not make the theory of evolution a religion.
'

That's because the theory of evolution doesn't account for the whole for the universe: that is, it doesn't relate at all to the existence of higher beings.

EVieira wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Drakef wrote:

There are no rules to being an atheist.
Which is why it isn't an organised religion.
Organized religion means having an hierarchical structure of people inside the religion's church, and usually collecting donations from the faithful to keep this structure going. It has nothing to do with the "rules".
Yes, it does.  Organisation doesn't mean people recieve money.  It means that set things are done to show faithfullness (i.e. prayer/sacrifice/fasting).

EVieira wrote:

And anyway, atheism is still not a religion....
Well, that makes perfect sense: "and even if we ignore all of the things that you claim make it a religion, it still isn't a religion".  ????????

doctastrangelove1964 wrote:

Wow a sticky got derailed. Is this th first time this happened?
Do we get a prize?

Last edited by Bubbalo (2007-03-07 13:48:45)

The#1Spot
Member
+105|6959|byah
If your Atheist then why do you guys celebrate Christian holidays. Christmas hence Christ in Christmas was born on that day that means you know that a god was born on that day which in turn celebrating that holiday is believing that there is a god existing even though you guys quote on quote say your Atheist which means you believe there is no other gods. I believe I won that argument.
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6787|Columbus, Ohio

The#1Spot wrote:

If your Atheist then why do you guys celebrate Christian holidays. Christmas hence Christ in Christmas was born on that day that means you know that a god was born on that day which in turn celebrating that holiday is believing that there is a god existing even though you guys quote on quote say your Atheist which means you believe there is no other gods. I believe I won that argument.
Since when in modern times has christmas or easter been about religion?  Easter bunny and santa claus might as well be religious symbols.

Last edited by usmarine2007 (2007-03-07 13:52:52)

Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6981
Please, Christians don't celebrate the birth of Christ on Christmas anymore.  And quite apart from that, historical evidence suggests that Jesus was born on a completely different day (for the record, I hate Dan Brown and his shitty book(s, I assume), and knew about this long before some idiot decided he knew how to write).

Edit: GAH!  Me and usmarine are on the same side now that our argument has switched threads!  I'm having an identity crisis!

Last edited by Bubbalo (2007-03-07 13:56:26)

=Karma-Kills=
"Don't post while intoxicated."
+356|7004|England

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2025 Jeff Minard