KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,993|7080|949

There are two intertwined trains of thought in Constitutional Law Theory that relate and occur prominently in arguments about the 2nd Amendment - Original Intent, and Judicial Review.

Followers of the Original Intent school of thought maintain that the Constitution be interpreted according to what the founding fathers and authors of the Bill Of Rights intended; that is, what were they trying to establish?

Using the Original Intent philosophy, one can come across many different interpretations of the Second Amendment.  A few prominent ones are:
     A) It was necessary at the time to maintain a militia (effectively local farmers and such in the 1700's) to fight off any corrupt or authoritarian power, making the second amendment a rather expedient rule.

     B) It was a rule put forth by the authors/founding fathers to make sure that in the United States there is a civil right to own and carry firearms, and there shall not be any law made against it without heavy consideration.

     C) It was the intent of the authors/founding fathers to establish the right of individual states (under the Federal Government's umbrella) to regulate their own militias (akin to a state's National Guard).

         Interestingly, this was not an argument in the Militia Act of 1903, establishing the National Guard.

Judicial Review is the power of a court (or courts, collectively) to review the constitutionality of a law.  That is, a state or federal law that they perceive may be in violation of the U.S. Constitution.  The theory of judicial review is significant in the interpretation of the 2nd Amendment because of the vague wording used.  In virtually (if not all) cases of judicial review in regards to the 2nd Amendment, the courts (collectively) have ruled in favor of the 2nd Amendment being interpreted as a single person's right to own firearms.

That being said, there is a distinct difference between the right to bear arms as established by our founding fathers and the authors of the U.S. Constitution and the ability of the Government to regulate the manufacture and availability of said firearms.  That is why there is legal weight behind the idea that a person cannot own a nuclear device, as someone tried to rationalize above.

The question is, what is the full scope of the government's legal right to regulate the availability of some weapons as opposed to others?  That is, how does the government decide which weapons are legal for us to own and which weapons aren't?

Personally, I believe the authors of the Constitution were intending to create a civil right guaranteeing that the citizens of the United States would not be without weapons to fight off a corrupt and/or expansionist regime threatening the citizens' life and livelihood.  However, I do believe that this right needs to be heavily regulated.  I see no need for the average American to own an AR-15.  There are special circumstances where it could be needed, but that should be an exception to the rule as far as I am concerned.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2006-12-12 18:23:46)

JG1567JG
Member
+110|7036|United States of America

jonsimon wrote:

Last1Standing wrote:

So if individuals were not allowed to have arms, then yes crime would go down. Not disappear though. But then the citizens have lost all the power to protect themselves against an oppressive government.
Like we have any power right now.
And you want to give up what little you do have?
JG1567JG
Member
+110|7036|United States of America

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I see no need for the average American to own an AR-15.  There are special circumstances where it could be needed, but that should be an exception to the rule as far as I am concerned.
Do you mind if I still own a nice semi-auto .223 with a 20-30 shot clip so I don't have to reload every couple of minutes (edit---->) at the range?

Last edited by JG1567JG (2006-12-12 18:28:27)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,073|7219|PNW

usmarine2007 wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Citizens need guns so that they may form militias if the need ever arose.
Then where is the right to form a militia at?  For example, those guys along the border...minute men I think, are not allowed to carry weapons, why is that?
The Minutemen aren't supposed to shoot anyone, because they'd get taken down by the law. The government didn't want the Minutemen in operation in the first place.

apollo_fi wrote:

An invasion army would be equipped with tanks, armoured personnel carriers, field artillery, attack helicopters and aircraft.

Is a machine gun, or are 50000 machine guns a deterrent against these?
An invading army also has infantry. And Iraq is modern proof that superior technology and equipment can still be fought.

Drakef wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

Drakef wrote:

The presence of firearms during either an uprising against a totalitarian government or against a foreign invader will only worsen the potential, but highly unlikely situation. If it becomes a citizen's duty to overthrow the government, it will not be under one goal that all armed citizens will fight. There will be widespread panic and violence as different organizations battle for ideological supremacy. A chaotic situation will result, especially if there is an invader. The responsibilities of an armed populace wil not always be its result. 1Without proper authority, armed citizens will be a detriment to the nation under such duress.
So we'll just go ahead and let the government be the one to decide who deserves to own a weapon.
Hopefully very few people, if only for hunting. 2Are you seriously denying the danger that firearms engender?
1Revolutions in world history prove that citizens can become organized.
2My firearm engenders danger to anybody who means me harm. Yes, I realize that it inflicts horrid wounds. That's what it's for, so I don't have to have horrid wounds inflicted on me. Of course, I could possibly be ambushed by any sort of weapon, no matter how primitive. Here's to hoping I'll never have to find out.

CameronPoe wrote:

I think they did mean individuals. It was kind of lending legitimacy to the acts of 'self defense' of the wild west frontiersmen, 'defending the nation' from the vicious natives, where the government was incapable of providing security...
The government is still incapable of providing security, in some cases. Until Trekkian transporters are invented, anyone can kill anyone faster than the police could arrive to put a stop to it. In other cases, the government is guilty of doing the exact opposite of providing security. I could recall a few cases of their heavy handedness, like the Weaver incident, but then anti-gun nuts would hop up in unison and screech 'irrelevant!'

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-12-12 19:13:03)

Fujin
Member
+18|6994
I think most people have interpreted the 2nd as accurately as we could, given the fact that it was written by folks who are obviously not around to clarify exactly what they meant.  As I see it, WE the PEOPLE are the ones they were talking about with regards to forming a militia and bearing arms.  I think, and by what most others have posted, that was/is the intent.  The big question is, does it still apply and if so, at what level?

I think a simple solution would be to revisit the Constitution and applicable laws to determine if clarification is needed based upon the current day and age and to "modify" constitutional rights so that they are more clearly understandable...undebatable.  Me personally, I'm on the fence as to what exactly the second amendment gives me as an individual...specifically, if I own weapons, is it then my duty to defend against invasion or severely corrupt government.  What if a person owns weapons but does not want to get involved at the level?

I own weapons...but not because I believe it is my constitutional right.  I own weapons because in a worse case scenario I would like to have a definitive means to protect myself and family.  I own weapons because current law allows me to with some specific regulations.  Yeah, that is base upon the Constitution but...oh hell, I don't know...
jonsimon
Member
+224|6943

JG1567JG wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

Last1Standing wrote:

So if individuals were not allowed to have arms, then yes crime would go down. Not disappear though. But then the citizens have lost all the power to protect themselves against an oppressive government.
Like we have any power right now.
And you want to give up what little you do have?
I wouldn't be sacrificing any of it were I to forgoe my right to bear arms.
JG1567JG
Member
+110|7036|United States of America

jonsimon wrote:

JG1567JG wrote:

jonsimon wrote:


Like we have any power right now.
And you want to give up what little you do have?
I wouldn't be sacrificing any of it were I to forgoe my right to bear arms.
You underestimate the power of the second amendment and an armed populace.
Drakef
Cheeseburger Logicist
+117|6810|Vancouver

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

1Revolutions in world history prove that citizens can become organized.
2My firearm engenders danger to anybody who means me harm. Yes, I realize that it inflicts horrid wounds. That's what it's for, so I don't have to have horrid wounds inflicted on me. Of course, I could possibly be ambushed by any sort of weapon, no matter how primitive. Here's to hoping I'll never have to find out.
I won't deny that citizens will become organized. While a primitive danger remains in individuals who make decisions with their responsibility of a firearm, a potential danger, organized citizens can also be a threat. Do not automatically assume that an organized group of citizens will intervene on behalf of ideals that you find to be proper. Divisions will occur among the armed populace, whether it be among political ideologies, or an authority-hungry gang of criminals. When it becomes the responsibility of citizens to take charge, even those with similar goals may be found fighting amongst one another.

Personal firearms are also a danger to its owner, and the chance for defending oneself does no happen often, nor will it always produce a positive effect when it does occur. I do realize that there are responsible firearm owners. However, there are many who are not responsible. It is a privilege to own a firearm, for those who have been given the benefit of the doubt by the government that they will not use it criminally. Not a right. And for all the negative reasons, I am against widespread firearm ownership, because those reasons outweight the positive ones. It is a populace who mainly seeks the power and cultural authority of a firearm that has them in such great numbers.
13rin
Member
+977|6927

Vilham wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Citizens need guns so that they may form militias if the need ever arose.
You have the highest military budget in the world... when would you ever need to form a militia?
Man... when was the constitution written?  how big was the budget back then?  Secret... We didn't really have a standing army at the time.  Militias were the in thing.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
13rin
Member
+977|6927

JG1567JG wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I see no need for the average American to own an AR-15.  There are special circumstances where it could be needed, but that should be an exception to the rule as far as I am concerned.
Do you mind if I still own a nice semi-auto .223 with a 20-30 shot clip so I don't have to reload every couple of minutes (edit---->) at the range?
Not at all.  Although I reccomend the 40 round clip or even the 100 round drum.. God, I miss my Bushmaster. Who gives a damn about what gun is legeally owned?  Ya know, I don't see the need for the average Ken Jennings out there be allowed to speak his mind.  Am I off my rocker about that? Yep. Is he off his about this issue?  YEP.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
jonsimon
Member
+224|6943

JG1567JG wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

JG1567JG wrote:


And you want to give up what little you do have?
I wouldn't be sacrificing any of it were I to forgoe my right to bear arms.
You underestimate the power of the second amendment and an armed populace.
Not against our current government. Anyone with any intentions to rebel or fight the government is a terrorist and apprehended by the FBI. It simply isn't a possibility.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6893|The Land of Scott Walker

tF-voodoochild wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

This thread has certainly wandered off course . . .
... thanks to productive posts such as this.

Try rebutting my previous post since you are also a fan of the "cars kill more than guns" argument.
If you reread my post, I was referring to accidental gun deaths.  I didn't include all the premeditated murders that result mostly from the gang and organzied crime world.  They'd kill each other with something else if they didn't have guns. 

Where this has gone off track is the debate about whether armed citizens could repel an invading force.    We're talking about what rights the 2nd amendment gives to citizens, not how effectively they could use their weapons should a foreign power invade.

Last edited by Stingray24 (2006-12-13 10:18:54)

Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6893|The Land of Scott Walker

jonsimon wrote:

JG1567JG wrote:

jonsimon wrote:


I wouldn't be sacrificing any of it were I to forgoe my right to bear arms.
You underestimate the power of the second amendment and an armed populace.
Not against our current government. Anyone with any intentions to rebel or fight the government is a terrorist and apprehended by the FBI. It simply isn't a possibility.
Which group tried to overthrow the government in an armed rebellion?  I missed that on the news.

If the citizens have no means to repel a government gone awry, they have no rights.  An unarmed populace is at the mercy of the government which could take rights away whenever they choose without any repercussions.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,993|7080|949

DBBrinson1 wrote:

JG1567JG wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I see no need for the average American to own an AR-15.  There are special circumstances where it could be needed, but that should be an exception to the rule as far as I am concerned.
Do you mind if I still own a nice semi-auto .223 with a 20-30 shot clip so I don't have to reload every couple of minutes (edit---->) at the range?
Not at all.  Although I reccomend the 40 round clip or even the 100 round drum.. God, I miss my Bushmaster. Who gives a damn about what gun is legeally owned?  Ya know, I don't see the need for the average Ken Jennings out there be allowed to speak his mind.  Am I off my rocker about that? Yep. Is he off his about this issue?  YEP.
I am off my rocker because I don't see the need to own more firepower than is sensibly needed?  As a person previously stated, why not nuclear bombs?  Why not allow me to own an M1A2?  We need regulation.  Bottom line.

I have done my fair share of research regarding 2nd Amendment rights.  Nowhere in the Constitution is there a right to own any weapon you want.  Maybe you should read my whole post instead of taking the two sentences you disagree with and attacking that.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6939|Northern California
Another way to look at the right to bear arms is for personal safety...as protection from illegal search and seizure, or a way to protect against that.  Since it's obvious the average citizen in the time of the writing of this amendment, and now, is no match for professional soldiers...but the average citizen, bearing arms, can certainly repel someone violating his fourth amendment protection against an unlawful home invasion with a simple 12 gauge.

I think the 2nd has many applications.  After all, the amendments to the constitution aren't specific laws as much as they are a framework for developing laws.  And they are a testament to the wisdom of their writers..if not, there would not be any laws pertaining to weapons, regulation of them, etc.  So debating if there should be AK-47's in every home and a Abrams tank in every garage based on interpretation of the 2nd amendment is in vain.  If you asked the fore fathers about it, they'd tell us to argue it out and decide how to legislate such things..based on the 2nd amendment guidelines..and probably the other amendments and their inclusion on the topic.
Jenkinsbball
Banned
+149|6996|USA bitches!
I remember this guy broke into my grandmother's house when my mom was still a child. She grabbed her shotgun and stood in a doorway. The guy walks into her view and she goes, "I've got a shotgun. You can either turn around and leave, or leave in a body bag." Needless to say, the coward ran and my grandma's house was safe. I don't like to think what would've happened if she didn't have that gun.
tF-voodoochild
Pew Pew!
+216|7295|San Francisco

Stingray24 wrote:

If you reread my post, I was referring to accidental gun deaths.  I didn't include all the premeditated murders that result mostly from the gang and organzied crime world.  They'd kill each other with something else if they didn't have guns. 

Where this has gone off track is the debate about whether armed citizens could repel an invading force.    We're talking about what rights the 2nd amendment gives to citizens, not how effectively they could use their weapons should a foreign power invade.
If you qualify something enough you can definitely skew statistics. For instance, I'm sure there are more firearm related deaths in the US per year than automobile related deaths on sunny Wednesdays in Maine.

Sure gang related murders would still happen, but I'm sure it would be a lot more difficult to pull off a drive by stabbing.

As far as this thread being off topic, I'm just happy that it is still somewhere in the ballpark of gun control and firearms, most off topic threads are full of people spouting entirely random and nonsensical crap.
Lucien
Fantasma Parastasie
+1,451|7101
I haven't bothered to read the thread, but once I read that one of the reasons why citizens were allowed to carry arms is so if democracy is overthrown the people can fight back.

bs? lolcakes? I don't know.
https://i.imgur.com/HTmoH.jpg
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,993|7080|949

JG1567JG wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I see no need for the average American to own an AR-15.  There are special circumstances where it could be needed, but that should be an exception to the rule as far as I am concerned.
Do you mind if I still own a nice semi-auto .223 with a 20-30 shot clip so I don't have to reload every couple of minutes (edit---->) at the range?
I don't mind you using a gun like that at the range, even owning a gun like that.  But I believe it needs to be heavily regulated (permits, fingerprints, drug tests, yearly check in with the police department).  I see no need for you to have a gun like that in your house.

I go to the shooting range a good deal.  I like shooting guns and blowing stuff up.  I enjoy shooting fully automatic rifles when I go to Vegas.  I just don't see the point in owning a fully automatic rifle.  There is no reason for it as far as I am concerned.  You want to collect them?  Fine, just remove certain parts to make it inoperable.
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|7103|United States of America

usmarine2007 wrote:

The right to bear arms?

"A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free
State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be
infringed."


Now, I know we cannot dig up the dead and ask these guys what they meant when they wrote this, but to me this does not mean "individual" rights to bear arms.  Now the word militia is a little old obviously, but to me they are talking about a States rights, not each individual citizen.  It is my opinion that this statement was not intended to guarantee the right for someone to keep a .50cal and loads of ammo in their house.  Maybe I am reading it wrong?
"Regulated Militia", it is illegal to own a .50 cal. without a permit.  I think the US government is AFRAID of the "people" forming Militias, so they cite it to mean individuals.  I think the "Man" fears the "People" getting together with guns while comparing notes on the "Man's" latest activities to repress the "People".

If it they ever didn't want individuals to keep and bear arms, why didn't they ban it in the constitution and then stop the sale of guns????  Why is it that only Clinton knows what they wanted to do but musta forgot to do when they made this country.

Whatever happened to pitch forks and torches.

Last edited by Major_Spittle (2006-12-13 13:16:48)

13rin
Member
+977|6927

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I am off my rocker because I don't see the need to own more firepower than is sensibly needed?  As a person previously stated, why not nuclear bombs?  Why not allow me to own an M1A2?  We need regulation.  Bottom line.

I have done my fair share of research regarding 2nd Amendment rights.  Nowhere in the Constitution is there a right to own any weapon you want.  Maybe you should read my whole post instead of taking the two sentences you disagree with and attacking that.
Here is a full response to your reply (not just the last 2 sentences).

Ok, lets saw I own a derringer pistol because you feel that the 100 shot semi bushmaster is way too much.  Now some jerkoff breaks into my house with a fully automatic AK-47 he illegally bought off the street.  I've got my 2 shot derringer, cause I'm a law abiding citizen and thanks to your sensibility I can't own something that would allow me to effectively protect myself and my family from those who ignore laws.  How can you dictate sensible firepower to those who don't even listen in the first place? 

Funnier yet.. Would you try to break into my house if there was a freaking tank in the driveway?

A bush master that joe citizen would buy is semi automatic.  That means one trigger depression equals one spent round (not a three burst or empty the clip).  In 1934 the government already made that regulation banning fully automatic weapons.  However if you want to pay a bit of money (about $300) to get a class III, and then quite a bit more money to get a full automatic weapon ($15,000 +), then you still can. legally.  OR you can get one off an inner city street for about 450 bucks.  So your laws have put me at a disadvantage again.

Also no where in the constitution is there a provision prohibiting me from owning whatever weapon I want.

There are all ready laws on the books dictating what military equipment you can and can't own.  The DOD spends billions destroying old weapons every year.  There is regulation.  But until you can get every one on the planet to play by your rules then you are just giving the bad guys an advantage, and a better chance to kill you.  Why would you want to do that Ken?  Are you a bad guy?

If you really are serious about owning that nuke and a tank -maybe you're the one who needs "regulation"

Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2006-12-13 16:02:31)

I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,993|7080|949

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Here is a full response to your reply (not just the last 2 sentences).

Ok, lets saw I own a derringer pistol because you feel that the 100 shot semi bushmaster is way too much.  Now some jerkoff breaks into my house with a fully automatic AK-47 he illegally bought off the street.  I've got my 2 shot derringer, cause I'm a law abiding citizen and thanks to your sensibility I can't own something that would allow me to effectively protect myself and my family from those who ignore laws.  How can you dictate sensible firepower to those who don't even listen in the first place?
You can't dictate sensible firepower to those who don't listen.  Bottom line.  You also can't allow fear and the idea that some one is out there with a bigger, badder weapon dictate gun law.

DBBrinson1 wrote:

A bush master that joe citizen would buy is semi automatic.  That means one trigger depression equals one spent round (not a three burst or empty the clip).  In 1934 the government already made that regulation banning fully automatic weapons.  However if you want to pay a bit of money (about $300) to get a class III, and then quite a bit more money to get a full automatic weapon ($15,000 +), then you still can. legally.  OR you can get one off an inner city street for about 450 bucks.  So your laws have put me at a disadvantage again.
These laws aren't designed to cripple the average gun owner financially, the laws are put into place to regulate the sales of a gun.  Using your own logic, what happens if a burglar enters your home while you are away and steals your automatic weapon?  Now there is an illegal firearm for sale on the streets.  Funnily enough, that's how the majority of the illegal weapons seized by police are obtained.  Now, with automatic weapons illegal, there is a limited amount of those weapons available.  Less weapons available=less weapons available to steal.

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Also no where in the constitution is there a provision prohibiting me from owning whatever weapon I want.
No, but as I stated in my original post, there is no sentence in the constitution prohibiting the government from regulating the purchase and availability of firearms.

There has been precedents set as far as the government's ability to regulate arms and who can own them.  This is why it is constitutional to make a law forbidding felons to own weapons.  The words of the 2nd Amendment do not include provisos denying the Government (through the judicial and/or legislative branch) the ability to regulate the sales/availability, only wording implying the civil right to own them.

DBBrinson1 wrote:

There are all ready laws on the books dictating what military equipment you can and can't own.  The DOD spends billions destroying old weapons every year.  There is regulation.
Exactly.  And the same regulations and laws can and should be applied to "standard" firearms.

DBBrinson1 wrote:

But until you can get every one on the planet to play by your rules then you are just giving the bad guys an advantage, and a better chance to kill you.  Why would you want to do that Ken?  Are you a bad guy?
You make laws for the majority, not for the minority.  There will always be "bad guys" out there, regardless.  I think it is absurd to argue for the legality of certain firearms based upon a supposed threat.  I am not against gun ownership, I am against the legalization of certain weapons that have no practical purpose.  An AR-15 kept in the home for personal protection is quite ludicrous.

No, I don't consider myself a bad guy.  I am a fun-loving guy who happens to feel strongly about certain political/social issues.  I am a slave to my vices (smoking cigarettes, pot, drinking heavily) and I live life to the fullest everyday.

DBBrinson1 wrote:

If you really are serious about owning that nuke and a tank -maybe you're the one who needs "regulation"
I think you misread.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2006-12-13 18:10:41)

13rin
Member
+977|6927

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

You can't dictate sensible firepower to those who don't listen.  Bottom line.  You also can't allow fear and the idea that some one is out there with a bigger, badder weapon dictate gun law.
I don't consider that fear.  I consider that being smart.  I'd rather have and not need -than need and not have.
http://www.free-market.net/resources/li … safer.html

Ken-Jennings wrote:

These laws aren't designed to cripple the average gun owner financially, the laws are put into place to regulate the sales of a gun.  Using your own logic, what happens if a burglar enters your home while you are away and steals your automatic weapon?  Now there is an illegal firearm for sale on the streets.  Funnily enough, that's how the majority of the illegal weapons seized by police are obtained.  Now, with automatic weapons illegal, there is a limited amount of those weapons available.  Less weapons available=less weapons available to steal.
Good luck stealing my guns when they are locked inside a 700 lb safe.  How about the 2.5 million crimes stopped each year because of people like me that carry a gun?

Reread article.  I like the part about DC and NYC.  No gun=safest cities?  Wrong!  So they are making their guns now there?


KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

No, but as I stated in my original post, there is no sentence in the constitution prohibiting the government from regulating the purchase and availability of firearms.

There has been precedents set as far as the government's ability to regulate arms and who can own them.  This is why it is constitutional to make a law forbidding felons to own weapons.  The words of the 2nd Amendment do not include provisos denying the Government (through the judicial and/or legislative branch) the ability to regulate the sales/availability, only wording implying the civil right to own them.
Ok, as I stated in my reply is that there is no sentence in the constitution which mandates that the government regulate firearms

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Exactly.  And the same regulations and laws can and should be applied to "standard" firearms.
What is your definition of a "standard" firearm?  Zip gun? Black powder?  Revolver? Repeating Rifle?  Semi Auto Shotgun?  UZI?  MP5?

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

You make laws for the majority, not for the minority.
I think the ACLU would argue that one with you.
That's the way it started out but the lala left coast and like minded simpletons are working hard to change all that. 

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

There will always be "bad guys" out there, regardless.  I think it is absurd to argue for the legality of certain firearms based upon a supposed threat.  I am not against gun ownership, I am against the legalization of certain weapons that have no practical purpose.  An AR-15 kept in the home for personal protection is quite ludicrous.
I have a practical purpose for an AR-15
Hurricane Katrine scenario. 
Or reread the article!  Here's the link again.  Check the Rodney King Verdict part:
http://www.free-market.net/resources/li … safer.html

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

No, I don't consider myself a bad guy.  I am a fun-loving guy who happens to feel strongly about certain political/social issues.  I am a slave to my vices (smoking cigarettes, pot, drinking heavily) and I live life to the fullest everyday.
Been there, done that, grew up....  Except I still live my life to the fullest everyday.  And I'll be damned if I'm cheated out of so much as one second of it -due to some asshole killing me, all because I had to leave my gun in the car, or because my clip ran out before his did.

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I think you misread.
You missed the humor.  Put down the bong.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6893|The Land of Scott Walker

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I don't mind you using a gun like that at the range, even owning a gun like that.  But I believe it needs to be heavily regulated (permits, fingerprints, drug tests, yearly check in with the police department).  I see no need for you to have a gun like that in your house.

I go to the shooting range a good deal.  I like shooting guns and blowing stuff up.  I enjoy shooting fully automatic rifles when I go to Vegas.  I just don't see the point in owning a fully automatic rifle.  There is no reason for it as far as I am concerned.  You want to collect them?  Fine, just remove certain parts to make it inoperable.
See you basic problem is you say "I" too much in your posts and you forget about "us".  Who the hell cares if you don't see the point in owning or reason for owning a fully automatic rifle.  Someone else (the "us" I referred to) may want to and if they aren't a felon, I say let em.  "I" don't like your cigarettes, but "I" am not going to tell you what to do with your lungs.  Oh and we have plenty of gun laws, let's enforce the ones we have.  That is all.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,073|7219|PNW

Drakef wrote:

Personal firearms are also a danger to its owner, and the chance for defending oneself does no happen often, nor will it always produce a positive effect when it does occur.
Mirror, mirror. Personal buzz saws are also a danger to their owner, and the chance for cutting wood may not happen often, nor will it always produce a positive effect when it does occur.

I'll take the chance of personal injury and use my buzz saw to cut wood when I absolutely need it, rather than wait for some guy from a hardware store to arrive and perform the job for me to indeterminate standards on an unreliable schedule. Now, let's say a neighbor screws around and sucks his own hand into the blade, or shows off but instead ends up kicking a sharp block into his buddy's eye. Does that mean everyone should give up their buzz saws?

Here, there are people for and against buzz saws. If I'm a buzz saw kind of guy, if you don't have a buzz saw when you need one, that's your unfortunate problem. Unless I'm in the business of selling buzz saws, I'm not going to try to shove buzz saws down peoples throats. If I'm the kind of guy who doesn't want to own a buzz saw, then I see absolutely no reason to campaign against them. If someone wants to own a buzz saw, then that's a sort of personal decision that I shouldn't be interfering with.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-12-13 23:10:44)

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