Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6445|North Carolina

sergeriver wrote:

Today almost 1,2 billion persons are atheists or agnostics. 
Why do you think people stopped believing?
Does science prove everything to such a point that people can't believe in God anymore?
Is Organized Religion making people lose faith in God?
Those who choose to believe, do they actually believe, or do they fear to be alone?
Science probably has something to do with it.  Education probably does as well.

Personally, I just figured religion was Santa Claus for adults.  It didn't seem necessary to me, because I just trust my own judgment and ethics enough to not need some otherworldly being or beings tell me what to do.  I also am perfectly comfortable with the thought that this is the only life we get.

If other people want to believe in religion, that's fine with me, as long as they don't try to mess with my life.
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6621|SE London

DesertFox423 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:


A for fuck sake man, something like 21% were Jedi's too
So?

If anything that reinforces the point. Almost everyone who put Jedi would probably otherwise have put Atheist. You're not going to get devout Christians just renouncing their faith like that.
Well, not everybody is devout. You've got Chreasters and fair-weather followers.
I know. My point was that some of them are almost certainly Atheists, so it certainly won't put a negative skew on any conclusions that could be drawn from the data regarding Atheism.
Naughty_Om
Im Ron Burgundy?
+355|6673|USA
Cuz modern religion sucks ass and isnt religion, its fucking society. And no way in hell is some book gonna tell me i should go blow myself up for some shitty as cuase.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6724|United States of America
Well I know many a person who attended religious-ish education with me and I am fairly certain if you presented them with the option of "Jedi", they would put that down. If you asked them about religion, they couldn't name half of the Commandments. It's like the TV show segments where some guy goes out on the street and asks people simple questions. The TV show then airs the stupid responses. Example- "Who was Neil Armstrong?" Answer "The bicyclist who beat cancer."

Naughty_Om wrote:

Cuz modern religion sucks ass and isnt religion, its fucking society. And no way in hell is some book gonna tell me i should go blow myself up for some shitty as cuase.
Good thing none of the major books say that. Not in the Torah, Bible or Koran.

Last edited by DesertFox423 (2006-12-07 16:34:50)

dubbs
Member
+105|6672|Lexington, KY

spray_and_pray wrote:

If anyone reads the Da Vinci code it gives a lotta reasons why not to beleive.
If you do research you know that Dan Brown made a lot of the stuff up.
Naughty_Om
Im Ron Burgundy?
+355|6673|USA

DesertFox423 wrote:

Well I know many a person who attended religious-ish education with me and I am fairly certain if you presented them with the option of "Jedi", they would put that down. If you asked them about religion, they couldn't name half of the Commandments. It's like the TV show segments where some guy goes out on the street and asks people simple questions. The TV show then airs the stupid responses. Example- "Who was Neil Armstrong?" Answer "The bicyclist who beat cancer."

Naughty_Om wrote:

Cuz modern religion sucks ass and isnt religion, its fucking society. And no way in hell is some book gonna tell me i should go blow myself up for some shitty as cuase.
Good thing none of the major books say that. Not in the Torah, Bible or Koran.
yea, thats what im saying, NO BOOKS SAY IT. BOOKS are the religion. Todays religion isnt books, ITS A COMMAND! thats why im religous, have no affiliation. I beleive in a God. I beleive in Faith. I dont beleive in CHristianity, Budhism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, any of them. Becuase they no longer stick to the books.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6445|North Carolina

DesertFox423 wrote:

Well I know many a person who attended religious-ish education with me and I am fairly certain if you presented them with the option of "Jedi", they would put that down. If you asked them about religion, they couldn't name half of the Commandments. It's like the TV show segments where some guy goes out on the street and asks people simple questions. The TV show then airs the stupid responses. Example- "Who was Neil Armstrong?" Answer "The bicyclist who beat cancer."
Well, I guess there is some truth to the idea that the behavior of many followers of religion may lead to others converting to atheism too.  I know I was turned off by fundamentalists and the too often hypocrisy of how their lives rarely match what they preach.

Thankfully, most of the Methodists I grew up with were sensible people (even if we disagreed on a lot).

Last edited by Turquoise (2006-12-07 16:40:17)

Storgie
how about this thread for whiners
+15|6615|federal way washington

sergeriver wrote:

Today almost 1,2 billion persons are atheists or agnostics. 
Why do you think people stopped believing?
Does science prove everything to such a point that people can't believe in God anymore?
Is Organized Religion making people lose faith in God?
Those who choose to believe, do they actually believe, or do they fear to be alone?
religon, most i came across require blind faith even in the face of evidence that can be proven. but i don' think its the religon that turns some off as much as the so called religous people that just makes a persons tummy turn.  personally i have no idea if there are any diety, i do not want the parent figure telling me i am wrong or bad all my life and as for me i hope my death leaves me only non existance, i have no wish for an after life, once is enough.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6724|United States of America

Turquoise wrote:

DesertFox423 wrote:

Well I know many a person who attended religious-ish education with me and I am fairly certain if you presented them with the option of "Jedi", they would put that down. If you asked them about religion, they couldn't name half of the Commandments. It's like the TV show segments where some guy goes out on the street and asks people simple questions. The TV show then airs the stupid responses. Example- "Who was Neil Armstrong?" Answer "The bicyclist who beat cancer."
Well, I guess there is some truth to the idea that the behavior of many followers of religion may lead to others converting to atheism too.  I know I was turned off by fundamentalists and the too often hypocrisy of how their lives rarely match what they preach.

Thankfully, most of the Methodists I grew up with were sensible people (even if we disagreed on a lot).
Aye.  I'm always angry when you've got TV evangelicals and those people who use it for a D-List fame and celebrity are identified as religious figures. Those people give others the wrong impression and may turn them off from the idea. However, that is how many moderately opinionated people were drawn to religion during the Great Awakening and Second Great Awakening periods in history.
Roger Lesboules
Ah ben tabarnak!
+316|6617|Abitibi-Temiscamingue. Québec!
I just don't believe that there is any "Superior" form of existence witch rule us the human....I'm ready to believe in Aliens if you bring me proof...but you will never manage to bring me proof that god exist.
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6621|SE London

Roger Lesboules wrote:

I just don't believe that there is any "Superior" form of existence witch rule us the human....I'm ready to believe in Aliens if you bring me proof...but you will never manage to bring me proof that god exist.
If you could get proof that God existed and He didn't want you to know He existed, He wouldn't be a very successful omnipotent being would He?
Roger Lesboules
Ah ben tabarnak!
+316|6617|Abitibi-Temiscamingue. Québec!

Bertster7 wrote:

Roger Lesboules wrote:

I just don't believe that there is any "Superior" form of existence witch rule us the human....I'm ready to believe in Aliens if you bring me proof...but you will never manage to bring me proof that god exist.
If you could get proof that God existed and He didn't want you to know He existed, He wouldn't be a very successful omnipotent being would He?
Well he failed to "Hide is existence" many people still worship him so...He is know.


Result

God=Fail!
R3v4n
We shall beat to quarters!
+433|6526|Melbourne

Atheists is more believable to me, the bible reads as a fictional book.  IMHO
~ Do you not know that in the service … one must always choose the lesser of two weevils?
liquix
Member
+51|6494|Peoples Republic of Portland
Being an Atheist I will speak for myself here. I am straight. My parents are Methodists, let that be known. My father used to teach history (is now a supportive living specialist,) and as a boy he taught me about history and why many of the wars in history were fought. Mom and Pop never once told me to believe anything, never made me go to church, never told me to pray, they let me think for myself. My parents taught me how to be a good person, how to care for other people, not to tell lies, etc. This ability to make my own decisions is partly why I'm an Atheist. Without someone telling you what to believe, there is no reason to believe in God. Now, the older I became and the more intelligent I became I started to see the hypocrisy, the lies, the betrayal, and the sheer inhumanity that organized religion has wrought across the world. I could not allow myself to buy into something that does not practice what it preaches.

A large issue I had, was the immoral behavior of my "religious" peers. I decided I was an atheist when I was in middle school. At the time, people would ask how could I not believe in God? And I would reply, "Even if I believed in God, I probably would follow another religion than you and thus would still not be good enough." This would cause them to be angry; this proved my one of my beliefs that religion does not unite, but separates. As I grew up and came into high-school I saw even more behavior which shows why I don't believe in organized religion or a God/Gods. I'm sure many of us as freshman saw our female friends prayed upon by juniors and seniors. As a three sport athlete, and varsity track from day one, I became friends with these older guys. These older guys would make bets on how fast they could have sex with my female friends, what they could get them to do, and proceed to tell every important and personal detail about these girls to their buddies. This is standard behavior for a teenage male, but what really makes it sting is how they would go to church on Sunday morning after taking the virginity from a drunken freshman. Simultaneous to the de-virginizing of 15 year old girls, other people began to find out that they were homosexual. The leaders of the "I hate you faggot" talk were the most religious individuals. This is so fucking wrong to me, how could any decent human treat their fellow man like this. Adding all of this behavior, all of the current lies, the 9/11 attack *happened freshman year* and was motivated by religion, and the uprising of my own CHRISTIAN against any dark skinned individual was simply disgusting.

Throughout the years, I began to feel better and better about my disbelief of what I think are lies. Also, I continued to study history. One thing that always made me /boggle was the negative usage of the word "pagan." I found it funny seeing someone who followed a monotheistic religion developed thousands of years later than the polytheistic "pagan" religions claiming the others were infidels/sinners/etc. This idiotic behavior once again sickens me. Another practice I hated was missionaries. I find few things more disrespectful than the systematic destruction other people's beliefs. It is simply one of the most foolish behaviors I can imagine, going into a foreign land, and telling the people there that what they think is wrong, and they should believe what you believe. As some incentive, why not build them a church and "civilize" them. This idea is also what has motivated so many wars in our shared human history. Ever since Akhenaten's dabble in monotheism *long before Jesus* religion has been used as an even stronger tool of war. Furthermore, If any Christian Individual believes that their religion even exists today without the aide of Constantine adopting your "God" to help him rally his soldiers to win a war, is simply a fool. The power of religion is control, which is probably the strongest reason I am Atheist. More acts of inhumanity have taken place under the grace of God than under any other banner.

I am speaking my own beliefs from my own experiences, take what you want from it and I'm sure the flames will come.

EDIT: another thing, if your Christian, at least get the name right and called him Jesuah..not Jesus.

Last edited by liquix (2006-12-07 17:34:59)

Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6445|North Carolina
Very good post...  You've described much of what I observed growing up....
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6811|PNW

PBAsydney wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

PBAsydney wrote:

God didn't make man, man made god.

If I will burn in hell for not believing in god, lets go! Heaven is for boring people who like to talk to god, pray, water pot plants, etc. while hell will rock on!
Dude, watering plants owns! It's something hitmen do.
It's only cool if they are carnivore plants.
No. It's scarier if they're cute little inoffensive house plants.

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

why do people become religious?
Inherited from parents or can't cope with self-dependancy.

^
opinion
I'll agree with the inherited aspect, but religious people can be self-dependant.

Poseidon wrote:

Mogura wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

why do people become religious?
they are retard
"They are retard"

EPIC.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-12-07 17:20:45)

Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6445|North Carolina
"They are retard" reminds me of Borat....

"It's good that you let the retard live with you."

"No no...  he's retired!"

LOL
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6724|United States of America

liquix wrote:

Being an Atheist I will speak for myself here. I am straight. My parents are Methodists, let that be known. My father used to teach history (is now a supportive living specialist,) and as a boy he taught me about history and why many of the wars in history were fought. Mom and Pop never once told me to believe anything, never made me go to church, never told me to pray, they let me think for myself. My parents taught me how to be a good person, how to care for other people, not to tell lies, etc. This ability to make my own decisions is partly why I'm an Atheist. Without someone telling you what to believe, there is no reason to believe in God. Now, the older I became and the more intelligent I became I started to see the hypocrisy, the lies, the betrayal, and the sheer inhumanity that organized religion has wrought across the world. I could not allow myself to buy into something that does not practice what it preaches.
In my experience, whenever someone claims to do any act that is detrimental to anyone in the name of religion, they are lying. None of these religions condone violence or inhumanity, but the media will focus on that aspect when an act has been perpetrated with ulterior motives in mind moreso than religious beliefs.

liquix wrote:

A large issue I had, was the immoral behavior of my "religious" peers. I decided I was an atheist when I was in middle school. At the time, people would ask how could I not believe in God? And I would reply, "Even if I believed in God, I probably would follow another religion than you and thus would still not be good enough." This would cause them to be angry; this proved my one of my beliefs that religion does not unite, but separates. As I grew up and came into high-school I saw even more behavior which shows why I don't believe in organized religion or a God/Gods. I'm sure many of us as freshman saw our female friends preyed upon by juniors and seniors. As a three sport athlete, and varsity track from day one, I became friends with these older guys. These older guys would make bets on how fast they could have sex with my female friends, what they could get them to do, and proceed to tell every important and personal detail about these girls to their buddies. This is standard behavior for a teenage male, but what really makes it sting is how they would go to church on Sunday morning after taking the virginity from a drunken freshman. Simultaneous to the de-virginizing of 15 year old girls, other people began to find out that they were homosexual. The leaders of the "I hate you faggot" talk were the most religious individuals. This is so fucking wrong to me, how could any decent human treat their fellow man like this. Adding all of this behavior, all of the current lies, the 9/11 attack *happened freshman year* and was motivated by religion, and the uprising of my own CHRISTIAN against any dark skinned individual was simply disgusting.
Again, these supposedly religous a-holes aren't acting with that belief in mind. I am more of a stick to the rules person. I'd be as troubled as you if such an outrage was witnessed. For me, that religous aspect tells me to be a good person and not to be a jackass, but that I cannot say for all Catholics or even some unnamed people on this forum.
However, I have no experience with the "I hate you...." talking people
Again, I was also in school in 2001 and I was uninformed about Islam at the time but was disgusted that there could be a religion that condoned such action.

liquix wrote:

Throughout the years, I began to feel better and better about my disbelief of what I think are lies. Also, I continued to study history. One thing that always made me /boggle was the negative usage of the word "pagan." I found it funny seeing someone who followed a monotheistic religion developed thousands of years later than the polytheistic "pagan" religions claiming the others were infidels/sinners/etc. This idiotic behavior once again sickens me. Another practice I hated was missionaries. I find few things more disrespectful than the systematic destruction other people's beliefs. It is simply one of the most foolish behaviors I can imagine, going into a foreign land, and telling the people there that what they think is wrong, and they should believe what you believe. As some incentive, why not build them a church and "civilize" them. This idea is also what has motivated so many wars in our shared human history. Ever since Akhenaten's dabble in monotheism *long before Jesus* religion has been used as an even stronger tool of war. Furthermore, If any Christian Individual believes that their religion even exists today without the aide of Constantine adopting your "God" to help him rally his soldiers to win a war, is simply a fool. The power of religion is control, which is probably the strongest reason I am Atheist. More acts of inhumanity have taken place under the grace of God than under any other banner.
I, on the contrary, began to feel better and better about my religion and very upset when people came on forums like this saying "There is no god. God is weakness" etc. since it just made me angry. I must reiterate though, I firmly believe you cannot say religion is THE main factor in the less than honorable moments of human history and other factors are far more at work under the guise of religous action. My religion has helped me greatly know myself better and develop my opinions on life. Thus, the ultimate goal after leading a good life that is rich in religion is heaven.
liquix
Member
+51|6494|Peoples Republic of Portland

DesertFox423 wrote:

liquix wrote:

Being an Atheist I will speak for myself here. I am straight. My parents are Methodists, let that be known. My father used to teach history (is now a supportive living specialist,) and as a boy he taught me about history and why many of the wars in history were fought. Mom and Pop never once told me to believe anything, never made me go to church, never told me to pray, they let me think for myself. My parents taught me how to be a good person, how to care for other people, not to tell lies, etc. This ability to make my own decisions is partly why I'm an Atheist. Without someone telling you what to believe, there is no reason to believe in God. Now, the older I became and the more intelligent I became I started to see the hypocrisy, the lies, the betrayal, and the sheer inhumanity that organized religion has wrought across the world. I could not allow myself to buy into something that does not practice what it preaches.
In my experience, whenever someone claims to do any act that is detrimental to anyone in the name of religion, they are lying. None of these religions condone violence or inhumanity, but the media will focus on that aspect when an act has been perpetrated with ulterior motives in mind moreso than religious beliefs.

liquix wrote:

A large issue I had, was the immoral behavior of my "religious" peers. I decided I was an atheist when I was in middle school. At the time, people would ask how could I not believe in God? And I would reply, "Even if I believed in God, I probably would follow another religion than you and thus would still not be good enough." This would cause them to be angry; this proved my one of my beliefs that religion does not unite, but separates. As I grew up and came into high-school I saw even more behavior which shows why I don't believe in organized religion or a God/Gods. I'm sure many of us as freshman saw our female friends preyed upon by juniors and seniors. As a three sport athlete, and varsity track from day one, I became friends with these older guys. These older guys would make bets on how fast they could have sex with my female friends, what they could get them to do, and proceed to tell every important and personal detail about these girls to their buddies. This is standard behavior for a teenage male, but what really makes it sting is how they would go to church on Sunday morning after taking the virginity from a drunken freshman. Simultaneous to the de-virginizing of 15 year old girls, other people began to find out that they were homosexual. The leaders of the "I hate you faggot" talk were the most religious individuals. This is so fucking wrong to me, how could any decent human treat their fellow man like this. Adding all of this behavior, all of the current lies, the 9/11 attack *happened freshman year* and was motivated by religion, and the uprising of my own CHRISTIAN against any dark skinned individual was simply disgusting.
Again, these supposedly religous a-holes aren't acting with that belief in mind. I am more of a stick to the rules person. I'd be as troubled as you if such an outrage was witnessed. For me, that religous aspect tells me to be a good person and not to be a jackass, but that I cannot say for all Catholics or even some unnamed people on this forum.
However, I have no experience with the "I hate you...." talking people
Again, I was also in school in 2001 and I was uninformed about Islam at the time but was disgusted that there could be a religion that condoned such action.

liquix wrote:

Throughout the years, I began to feel better and better about my disbelief of what I think are lies. Also, I continued to study history. One thing that always made me /boggle was the negative usage of the word "pagan." I found it funny seeing someone who followed a monotheistic religion developed thousands of years later than the polytheistic "pagan" religions claiming the others were infidels/sinners/etc. This idiotic behavior once again sickens me. Another practice I hated was missionaries. I find few things more disrespectful than the systematic destruction other people's beliefs. It is simply one of the most foolish behaviors I can imagine, going into a foreign land, and telling the people there that what they think is wrong, and they should believe what you believe. As some incentive, why not build them a church and "civilize" them. This idea is also what has motivated so many wars in our shared human history. Ever since Akhenaten's dabble in monotheism *long before Jesus* religion has been used as an even stronger tool of war. Furthermore, If any Christian Individual believes that their religion even exists today without the aide of Constantine adopting your "God" to help him rally his soldiers to win a war, is simply a fool. The power of religion is control, which is probably the strongest reason I am Atheist. More acts of inhumanity have taken place under the grace of God than under any other banner.
I, on the contrary, began to feel better and better about my religion and very upset when people came on forums like this saying "There is no god. God is weakness" etc. since it just made me angry. I must reiterate though, I firmly believe you cannot say religion is THE main factor in the less than honorable moments of human history and other factors are far more at work under the guise of religous action. My religion has helped me greatly know myself better and develop my opinions on life. Thus, the ultimate goal after leading a good life that is rich in religion is heaven.
But you see, under the "guise" of religion does not change that religion was the vehicle and/or catalyst. I would agree that most religions don't teach this inhumanity, but it allows for it completely. At least you don't want to flay me, DesertFox
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6445|North Carolina

DesertFox423 wrote:

I, on the contrary, began to feel better and better about my religion and very upset when people came on forums like this saying "There is no god. God is weakness" etc. since it just made me angry. I must reiterate though, I firmly believe you cannot say religion is THE main factor in the less than honorable moments of human history and other factors are far more at work under the guise of religous action. My religion has helped me greatly know myself better and develop my opinions on life. Thus, the ultimate goal after leading a good life that is rich in religion is heaven.
That's a very important distinction.  I would agree that religion is the cover that people use for immoral actions oftentimes.  So technically, they're not acting in accordance with God's will, they're just telling themselves they are since that makes it easier for them to do the act.

Sadly, this guise works remarkably well among less educated people.  Look at the bullshit people do under Islam's guise in Iraq.
silentsin
Member
+3|6738

d4rkst4r wrote:

sorry to disturb your thinking process but, zeus is fake. There is no zeus God. Only one God. Those Greek people thought lightning was zeus punishing them. Explain theory behind that, which you can't.
haha what a tard. he was joking about zeus idiot.
Fireteam_Delta
Member
+20|6474
because religion sucks and it causes problems
DeltaGrey
Member
+1|6565|Finland
When they realize their existence really doesn't continue after dying, personally i don't believe anything coss i know once time comes, my self consciousness disappears and i become nothing. BUT I'm not saying religion is bad, actually some give really good guide lines how should you live your life and respect fellow man. Gives routines and faint to go on for those who will not accept our main need to breed and survive, pass the genes... But who knows i might be as well wrong as right, well we all find out it some point, too bad at that point we cant tell anyone the truth
liquix
Member
+51|6494|Peoples Republic of Portland

Turquoise wrote:

DesertFox423 wrote:

I, on the contrary, began to feel better and better about my religion and very upset when people came on forums like this saying "There is no god. God is weakness" etc. since it just made me angry. I must reiterate though, I firmly believe you cannot say religion is THE main factor in the less than honorable moments of human history and other factors are far more at work under the guise of religous action. My religion has helped me greatly know myself better and develop my opinions on life. Thus, the ultimate goal after leading a good life that is rich in religion is heaven.
That's a very important distinction.  I would agree that religion is the cover that people use for immoral actions oftentimes.  So technically, they're not acting in accordance with God's will, they're just telling themselves they are since that makes it easier for them to do the act.

Sadly, this guise works remarkably well among less educated people.  Look at the bullshit people do under Islam's guise in Iraq.
I would argue that if God's will ever existed it was written out long ago in the hundreds of Biblical translations. Nobody here has read the "original" Bible/Koran/Torah. Given the enormously corrupt people who controlled Europe during the times that the Bible was translated into: Greek/Italian/Latin/Deutsch/English/French/Portuguese, or what have you, they ALL put their little spin on things.  I believe the Bible is also another fault in  western religion, how can it be true when there are umpteen million versions of it? And just to prove those wrong who believe the message cannot/ has not changed just think about how much a single punctuation mark, or a single word can change a sentence:

Heaven as we understand it today means the abode of God, the angels, and the souls of those who are granted salvation.

The word heaven as originally intended means "sky."

That should show even the power of a single word and how it can change everything.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6811|PNW

Fireteam_Delta wrote:

because religion sucks and it causes problems
Because behind every religious problem is non-religious greed.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-12-07 17:58:13)

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