I hope Zimmerman does really well. I read what the other guy said. Bunch of racist drivel.
A guy who couldn't fight off a 16 year old is entering a televised boxing match.
I hope DMX shoots him and gets let off.
I hope DMX shoots him and gets let off.
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
- +635|3717
almost four months, by the look of it . . .
racism
1 less hoodlum and future permanent prison resident in the world.
1 more willing participant for celebrity boxing.
I think that's a good trade off personally.
1 more willing participant for celebrity boxing.
I think that's a good trade off personally.
one involved a dude actively pursuing a kid who he perceived as a troublemaker allegedly based on his outfit and race, then provoking a confrontation. The other involved a guy shooting a kid through an SUV window in a botched robbery. Don't be an idiot.SuperJail Warden wrote:
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
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Kyle Rittenhouse trial. Thoughts?
Why did I bump this thread? There is a parallel between the two cases that irks me. In both causes a gun idiot went looking for trouble, found it, and then claimed self defense after shooting some unarmed people.
Don't put yourself in a bad situation. Mind your own business. If you own a gun and want to be a hero
Why did I bump this thread? There is a parallel between the two cases that irks me. In both causes a gun idiot went looking for trouble, found it, and then claimed self defense after shooting some unarmed people.
Don't put yourself in a bad situation. Mind your own business. If you own a gun and want to be a hero
Crooks and Liars calls it a hot mess that may go to mistrial.
"The two victims can't be called victims. Call them 'rioters' or 'looters' instead."
lol
"The two victims can't be called victims. Call them 'rioters' or 'looters' instead."
lol
A teenager who turned up at social justice protests in Wisconsin last year saying he wanted to protect property shot a protester after the man pointed a gun at him, a court has heard.
Kyle Rittenhouse, 18, killed two men and injured a third in a clash on the streets of Kenosha on 25 August 2020.
Gaige Grosskreutz, 27, acknowledged in court he was advancing with gun drawn on Rittenhouse when he opened fire.
Kenosha had erupted in rioting after police shot a black man.
Lawyers for Mr Rittenhouse argue he was legally acting in self-defence. He denies six counts, including reckless homicide, intentional homicide and recklessly endangering safety.
Mr Grosskreutz was at the protest volunteering as a medic and said in court that he was affiliated with a social justice group called the People's Revolution Movement, according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.
He said he mistook Mr Rittenhouse, then 17, for an "active shooter" and that he was shot after approaching him with his gun out.
Under tense cross-examination on Monday, the defendant's lawyer, Corey Chirafisi, asked the witness: "When you were standing three to five feet from him with your arms up in the air, he never fired, right?"
"Correct," Mr Grosskreutz said.
"It wasn't until you pointed your gun at him, advanced on him, with your gun, now your hands down pointed at him, that he fired, right?" Mr Chirafisi continued.
"Correct," Mr Grosskreutz said.
He said he did not mean to point the gun at Mr Rittenhouse and also denied he had been chasing after the teen.Who is US teen accused of Wisconsin protest murders?
Armed with a semi-automatic rifle, Mr Rittenhouse had just fatally shot Joseph Rosenbaum, 36, and Anthony Huber, 26, who had swung a skateboard at him. Mr Rittenhouse and the men he shot are all white.
Mr Chirafisi cited a lawsuit filed by Mr Grosskreutz against the city of Kenosha, asking him: "If Mr Rittenhouse is convicted, your chance of getting 10 million bucks is better, right?"
Mr Grosskreutz was shot in the right bicep, causing severe damage to his arm. Pictures of his wound were shown to the jury, causing some to look away in discomfort, according to court reporters.
Mr Grosskreutz was the 16th witness to testify for the prosecution. Mr Rittenhouse's defence team are expected to call their own witnesses after the prosecution closes on Tuesday.
The rioting broke out in Kenosha after police shot a black man, Jacob Blake, seven times in the back on 23 August 2020. A woman had called police to say Mr Blake was at her home in violation of a restraining order. Mr Blake, who was armed with a knife, was getting into a car where his three children were seated when police opened fire. He survived.
What does video evidence show?
Bystander video captures Mr Rittenhouse being chased into the car park of a used-car dealership by Mr Rosenbaum.
Moments later, unseen on video, Mr Rittenhouse fires four times and kills Mr Rosenbaum.
As he runs down the street away from the scene, Mr Rittenhouse falls and multiple people converge upon him.
Mr Huber hits Mr Rittenhouse in the head and neck with a skateboard. Mr Rittenhouse kills him with a bullet to the stomach.
Mr Grosskreutz approaches him with a pistol in hand. Mr Rittenhouse wounds him with a shot in the arm.
If convicted of the most serious charges, he could spend decades in prison.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59216106
In this case its not clear cut, if some people were black and some people white that would make it a lot easier because obviously the white person would be guilty, but they aren't.
Kyle Rittenhouse, 18, killed two men and injured a third in a clash on the streets of Kenosha on 25 August 2020.
Gaige Grosskreutz, 27, acknowledged in court he was advancing with gun drawn on Rittenhouse when he opened fire.
Kenosha had erupted in rioting after police shot a black man.
Lawyers for Mr Rittenhouse argue he was legally acting in self-defence. He denies six counts, including reckless homicide, intentional homicide and recklessly endangering safety.
Mr Grosskreutz was at the protest volunteering as a medic and said in court that he was affiliated with a social justice group called the People's Revolution Movement, according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.
He said he mistook Mr Rittenhouse, then 17, for an "active shooter" and that he was shot after approaching him with his gun out.
Under tense cross-examination on Monday, the defendant's lawyer, Corey Chirafisi, asked the witness: "When you were standing three to five feet from him with your arms up in the air, he never fired, right?"
"Correct," Mr Grosskreutz said.
"It wasn't until you pointed your gun at him, advanced on him, with your gun, now your hands down pointed at him, that he fired, right?" Mr Chirafisi continued.
"Correct," Mr Grosskreutz said.
He said he did not mean to point the gun at Mr Rittenhouse and also denied he had been chasing after the teen.Who is US teen accused of Wisconsin protest murders?
Armed with a semi-automatic rifle, Mr Rittenhouse had just fatally shot Joseph Rosenbaum, 36, and Anthony Huber, 26, who had swung a skateboard at him. Mr Rittenhouse and the men he shot are all white.
Mr Chirafisi cited a lawsuit filed by Mr Grosskreutz against the city of Kenosha, asking him: "If Mr Rittenhouse is convicted, your chance of getting 10 million bucks is better, right?"
Mr Grosskreutz was shot in the right bicep, causing severe damage to his arm. Pictures of his wound were shown to the jury, causing some to look away in discomfort, according to court reporters.
Mr Grosskreutz was the 16th witness to testify for the prosecution. Mr Rittenhouse's defence team are expected to call their own witnesses after the prosecution closes on Tuesday.
The rioting broke out in Kenosha after police shot a black man, Jacob Blake, seven times in the back on 23 August 2020. A woman had called police to say Mr Blake was at her home in violation of a restraining order. Mr Blake, who was armed with a knife, was getting into a car where his three children were seated when police opened fire. He survived.
What does video evidence show?
Bystander video captures Mr Rittenhouse being chased into the car park of a used-car dealership by Mr Rosenbaum.
Moments later, unseen on video, Mr Rittenhouse fires four times and kills Mr Rosenbaum.
As he runs down the street away from the scene, Mr Rittenhouse falls and multiple people converge upon him.
Mr Huber hits Mr Rittenhouse in the head and neck with a skateboard. Mr Rittenhouse kills him with a bullet to the stomach.
Mr Grosskreutz approaches him with a pistol in hand. Mr Rittenhouse wounds him with a shot in the arm.
If convicted of the most serious charges, he could spend decades in prison.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59216106
In this case its not clear cut, if some people were black and some people white that would make it a lot easier because obviously the white person would be guilty, but they aren't.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
i think you're unfairly racializing things here. considering how rarely black people have been involved in so much of the recent fuckery involving riots, shooting, insurrections, police murder, etc., it sounds like you're rather lamely trying to stir up the usual 'race blaming' stuff where there is none. this isn't the trial of OJ simpson. the defence already tried to call into question the 'black victimhood' line during the derek chauvin trial; it didn't work; the culture has moved on from such lame shit generalizations about 'black drug users and frequent offenders' vs. 'perfectly innocent victims of racial violence'.
it's weird how much you rage against the summer of BLM protests because of some property damage, and yet you're cynical and see an opportunity to be a racist piece of shit about the instances of (far) right-wing militias shooting people to death. again: let us know when african-american activists ever did anything so bad as the capitol insurrection.
in this case, both parties were predominantly white people, as you've pointed out. black people don't tend to even get anywhere near this level of fuckery, likely because they know they'll be the first mf'ers to get shot or end up arrested. so, again, i think you're being a little unfair by relying on the 'lol black people can't be guilty of anything' line. african-americans largely seem to stay away from all this gun-loving militia LARPing and anarchist revolutionism.
i think rittenhouse will get away with it and catch the rap on the minor gun charges. it's a shit result but the entire incident was essentially started by a mental facility outpatient charging him, topless, and provoking him. video analysis has shown that another nearby protestor discharged a handgun into the air at the same moment, several yards away, so it's probably pretty clear that rittenhouse perceived his life to be in danger. after that it became a clusterfuck. the people attacking him with their skateboards or trying to overpower him had only heard the spreading rumours that he just murdered a guy, so in their heads they were trying to do the right thing; and, on the other hand, although he did just kill a guy in self-defence, he then couldn't extricate himself from the powder keg scenario.
i totally agree with the line that it's fucking crazy and unreasonable for a 17-year-old to purchase an assault rifle and cross state lines to throw himself into the midst of a very tense and dangerous situation. but, then again, technically he wasn't travelling far (across a state line, yes, but to an area where his father worked and with which he was very familiar; not exactly an out-of-towner looking for trouble), and technically there's no laws against movement or assembly. the video footage of him running around calling out 'who needs a medic?' and shouting 'friendly!' genuinely makes it seem like he is roleplaying as if he's in a fucking CoD or BF game or something. i'm not sure what the legal age for a minor is in WI, but the guy was behaving like a clueless teenager.
total shitshow all round.
it's weird how much you rage against the summer of BLM protests because of some property damage, and yet you're cynical and see an opportunity to be a racist piece of shit about the instances of (far) right-wing militias shooting people to death. again: let us know when african-american activists ever did anything so bad as the capitol insurrection.
in this case, both parties were predominantly white people, as you've pointed out. black people don't tend to even get anywhere near this level of fuckery, likely because they know they'll be the first mf'ers to get shot or end up arrested. so, again, i think you're being a little unfair by relying on the 'lol black people can't be guilty of anything' line. african-americans largely seem to stay away from all this gun-loving militia LARPing and anarchist revolutionism.
i think rittenhouse will get away with it and catch the rap on the minor gun charges. it's a shit result but the entire incident was essentially started by a mental facility outpatient charging him, topless, and provoking him. video analysis has shown that another nearby protestor discharged a handgun into the air at the same moment, several yards away, so it's probably pretty clear that rittenhouse perceived his life to be in danger. after that it became a clusterfuck. the people attacking him with their skateboards or trying to overpower him had only heard the spreading rumours that he just murdered a guy, so in their heads they were trying to do the right thing; and, on the other hand, although he did just kill a guy in self-defence, he then couldn't extricate himself from the powder keg scenario.
i totally agree with the line that it's fucking crazy and unreasonable for a 17-year-old to purchase an assault rifle and cross state lines to throw himself into the midst of a very tense and dangerous situation. but, then again, technically he wasn't travelling far (across a state line, yes, but to an area where his father worked and with which he was very familiar; not exactly an out-of-towner looking for trouble), and technically there's no laws against movement or assembly. the video footage of him running around calling out 'who needs a medic?' and shouting 'friendly!' genuinely makes it seem like he is roleplaying as if he's in a fucking CoD or BF game or something. i'm not sure what the legal age for a minor is in WI, but the guy was behaving like a clueless teenager.
total shitshow all round.
Last edited by uziq (2021-11-09 03:06:26)
I think the whole thing is a good example of how much bad news it is to throw a bunch of armed people into a bubbling cauldron like that. We can't even trust our cops to be responsible with guns sometimes. There's no way I'm going to trust some armed wannabe larping about town. I don't even trust open carry demonstrators. You should look up videos of them mishandling their firearms in public.
They are involved in an awful lot of mundane murders though, of course a harmless white kid sitting quietly in a van getting shot by a black kid enacting a robbery doesn't matter - this is so normal and expected no-one cares.uziq wrote:
i think you're unfairly racializing things here. considering how rarely black people have been involved in so much of the recent fuckery involving riots, shooting, insurrections, police murder, etc.
Black kid getting shot by white kid - that is unusual so we'd better take an interest or be racist.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
- +635|3717
If the guy with the gun or the guy with the skateboard killed Kyle, should they have gotten charged with murder? They thought they were stopping a mass murderer. Does their intent matter?
The original goof that got killed...did he have a right to self defense after someone with a rifle chased him down and initiated contact? What if he had disarmed Kyle and killed him with his rifle?
Circling back to the original topic of this thread...did Trayvon has a right to self defense after Zimmerman initiated contact?
I agree wholeheartedly that these armed protest are a thing that need to be stopped and I really hope we get a surprise verdict against K.R. that harshly punishes him in order to dissuade further armed protest.
I absolutely hate the fact that over and over again we are seeing gun people initiate confrontations, and then kill the person. And every time afterward with get right wing dorks defending the gun people because only gun people have a right to self defense and standing their ground.
These armed confrontations that right wingers initiate are their own form of bigotry and discrimination. Our society prides itself 'not taking any shit from anyone' but at the same time right wingers can come up to you and start shit and you have to walk away like a chump lest they turn you into a Twitter hashtag. As humiliating as being called a nigger.
The original goof that got killed...did he have a right to self defense after someone with a rifle chased him down and initiated contact? What if he had disarmed Kyle and killed him with his rifle?
Circling back to the original topic of this thread...did Trayvon has a right to self defense after Zimmerman initiated contact?
I agree wholeheartedly that these armed protest are a thing that need to be stopped and I really hope we get a surprise verdict against K.R. that harshly punishes him in order to dissuade further armed protest.
I absolutely hate the fact that over and over again we are seeing gun people initiate confrontations, and then kill the person. And every time afterward with get right wing dorks defending the gun people because only gun people have a right to self defense and standing their ground.
These armed confrontations that right wingers initiate are their own form of bigotry and discrimination. Our society prides itself 'not taking any shit from anyone' but at the same time right wingers can come up to you and start shit and you have to walk away like a chump lest they turn you into a Twitter hashtag. As humiliating as being called a nigger.
an additional twist to this, which makes dilbert's race-baiting and black-blaming extra fucking irritating, is that police forces have been shown, time and time again, to be sympathetic to right-wing militias and people whose literal appearance and views are similar to their own.
there's even been psychological research published as to this fact. any given police force tend to be more lenient and understanding with people whose basic appearance and ideological underpinnings seem similar to their own. in addition to this basic cognitive-nativist bias, there is an additional bias against black people to contend with, caused by centuries of historical inertia and pseudo-scientific racialised thinking.
we live in a pluralistic democracy – we advertise ourselves as such – and yet people like dilbert enjoy endlessly punching down on people who receive the worst miscarriages of justice and ill-treatment. how very big and noble. i prefer societies that try to protect the weak and vulnerable, to enshrine protest as a right, and which try to counteract the most venal and untrained of reflexes in our being. as freud himself pointed out, 'civilization' itself is the process of contention and containment against unrestrained impulses: we can educate and cultivate ourself, through rational awareness, of things like unconscious biases in policing based on similar appearances. dilbert celebrates that stuff when it suits him – appeals to timeless and unalterable 'human nature' and so on – because he is a fascist.
there's even been psychological research published as to this fact. any given police force tend to be more lenient and understanding with people whose basic appearance and ideological underpinnings seem similar to their own. in addition to this basic cognitive-nativist bias, there is an additional bias against black people to contend with, caused by centuries of historical inertia and pseudo-scientific racialised thinking.
we live in a pluralistic democracy – we advertise ourselves as such – and yet people like dilbert enjoy endlessly punching down on people who receive the worst miscarriages of justice and ill-treatment. how very big and noble. i prefer societies that try to protect the weak and vulnerable, to enshrine protest as a right, and which try to counteract the most venal and untrained of reflexes in our being. as freud himself pointed out, 'civilization' itself is the process of contention and containment against unrestrained impulses: we can educate and cultivate ourself, through rational awareness, of things like unconscious biases in policing based on similar appearances. dilbert celebrates that stuff when it suits him – appeals to timeless and unalterable 'human nature' and so on – because he is a fascist.
Last edited by uziq (2021-11-09 05:06:54)
what are you talking about? the vast majority of 'mundane murders' are black-on-black violence, confined to black ghetto neighbourhoods. if there are any 'blind spots' in the cultural consciousness about murder, it's precisely this type: out of sight and out of mind in poor black areas.Dilbert_X wrote:
They are involved in an awful lot of mundane murders though, of course a harmless white kid sitting quietly in a van getting shot by a black kid enacting a robbery doesn't matter - this is so normal and expected no-one cares.uziq wrote:
i think you're unfairly racializing things here. considering how rarely black people have been involved in so much of the recent fuckery involving riots, shooting, insurrections, police murder, etc.
Black kid getting shot by white kid - that is unusual so we'd better take an interest or be racist.
there is no giant cultural bias whereby blacks can kill whites with impunity. what the fuck are you on about? for fuck's sake, for most of america's history a black person could be lynched to death and strung up from a tree over even the rumour of mishandling a white person, especially if it was a woman.
black people receive harsher sentencing for almost every single type of crime; they make up a notable bulk of america's felon population; and yet you seriously claim with a straight face that blacks can murder whites and get away with it. how disconnected are you from reality my guy? white people in america receive a more lenient time in the justice system right across the board.
who is more likely to get away with a murder charge in america's justice system? a rich person or a poor person? how do all these right-wing gun rights martyrs end up carrying off unbelievable defenses? maybe the fact they have crowdfunded the wiliest lawyers in the country might have something to do with it? how many african-americans carry off the same legal defense routine?
Last edited by uziq (2021-11-09 05:10:18)
You'd think that would be an extra incentive to not commit crime and black crime would be lower to non-existent.uziq wrote:
[black people receive harsher sentencing for almost every single type of crime
Maybe the defense this Rittenhouse character was attacked first and apparently defended himself is unbelievable to you.how do all these right-wing gun rights martyrs end up carrying off unbelievable defenses? maybe the fact they have crowdfunded the wiliest lawyers in the country might have something to do with it? how many african-americans carry off the same legal defense routine?
Did they crowd-fund the actual videos of it happening? CGI can do amazing stuff these days.
Maybe they paid the woke SJW guy who got shot in the arm to take a gun to a protest, anything is possible with money.
"But how could the jury come to that verdict!? Its unbelievable, it must be wrong"
In my experience if you're not in court to hear all the evidence and see the witnesses and are going on a selective media account you really don't know what is going on.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
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Violent black communities and white wannabe Dirty Harrys are two separate issues. You can have little love for the blacks while also correctly concluding Rittenhouse is a murderer.
Dilbert, you more than most should be annoyed at K.R.'s actions. Kyle, his pig mom, and the guy who bought the gun to give to the minor all bring shame to your hobby and community. His rifle shouldn't have even been loaded. The 'proper way' to do these armed protest is to keep your magazines empty. The military does that exact thing when it comes to domestic policing actions.
Dilbert, you more than most should be annoyed at K.R.'s actions. Kyle, his pig mom, and the guy who bought the gun to give to the minor all bring shame to your hobby and community. His rifle shouldn't have even been loaded. The 'proper way' to do these armed protest is to keep your magazines empty. The military does that exact thing when it comes to domestic policing actions.
He shouldn't have been there with a gun, total dick move by a teenage turdbag from a family of turdbags.
But apparently he was attacked by 'peaceful unarmed protestors' one of whom pulled a gun.
How the courts are going to unscramble that one who knows, whatever the result its going to send calm rational woke hipsters like uziq into a spitting rage.
But apparently he was attacked by 'peaceful unarmed protestors' one of whom pulled a gun.
How the courts are going to unscramble that one who knows, whatever the result its going to send calm rational woke hipsters like uziq into a spitting rage.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
erm i literally said that is probably strictly the case in a legal court of law. maybe read my posts? talk about ‘not having all the complete information’ without being in the court room: you can’t even respond to a discussion in an internet forum. i said he’ll probably be acquitted of everything but the gun charges and that the situation is a regrettable clusterfuck, duh.Maybe the defense this Rittenhouse character was attacked first and apparently defended himself is unbelievable to you.
but now i’m a ‘woke hipster’ because i dare say that right-wing militias patrolling the streets with assault rifles, aided and abetted by the police, is problematic … which, er, is seemingly exactly what you said next. ok doofus. are you going senile? you’re arguing with inventions in your own head.
the fact you’re teeing off on african-americans and ranting about how ‘blacks can murder whites with impunity’ in a discussion of the kenosha shootings is just fucking bizarre. put aside your dumb racist invective for just a few posts, eh? everyone involved in this court case are whitebread crackers buttered with political extremist cream cheese. punching down on african-americans and their supposedly ‘preferential’ treatment in murder trials is doubly hilarious, considering we’re talking about a white martyr who has had his defence crowdfunded by a huge political bloc. i’m sure j-kwan from the south side gets that.
and i never claimed they were ‘perfectly innocent protestors’. it’s common knowledge that the first assailant was an outpatient, just released from a mental facility that evening. I WROTE THAT ABOVE TOO. i literally wrote that the chain of events was initiated by an unhinged person charging at rittenhouse with his top off; with limited info in a quickly deteriorating situation, the ‘peaceful protestors’ thought they were doing the best thing by trying to apprehend the guy.
amazing and circuitous logic by the way. ‘we designed the legal system to be extra punitive to your group so that you’ll learn your lesson!’ go read a democracy-for-dumbies book you cucked little fascist.
Last edited by uziq (2021-11-09 20:09:52)
Didn't say that, I said it wasn't noteworthy.‘blacks can murder whites with impunity’
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
so you're blase about actual policing statistics, inconsistencies in courtroom sentencing and custodial sentences, the uneven application of the justice system ... but upset about news coverage.
seems totally rational to me, chap. A+.
seems totally rational to me, chap. A+.
don't let statistics get in the way of your bizarre white victim/white supremacist fantasies, either.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact … SKBN23M2SX
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact … SKBN23M2SX
ah, yes, the epidemic of black-on-white violence that no one is talking about.Taking respective population sizes into account, and based on the link to 2013 census data at the bottom of the graph in the posts, Nuzzo interpreted the data as follows: If you’re a white person in 2013, based on the FBI data, your chances of being killed by anyone are roughly 13 in a million; if you’re a black person in 2013, your chances of being killed by anyone were 62 in a million, which is almost five times what the odds are for a white person.
If you’re a white person in 2013, Nuzzo explained, your chances of being murdered by another white person are approximately 11 in a million, and your chances of being murdered by a black person are two in a million. Meanwhile, if you’re a black person in 2013, your chances of being murdered by another black person are 56 in a million, and your chances of being murdered by a white person are five in a million.
Nuzzo also cautioned that all these numbers were rough approximations for the sake of illustration, and that the reality is much more complicated than can be captured in either a single Facebook graph.
Pointing to the bar labeled “blacks killed by whites” as “what the media is hysterical about,” the shared image suggests that ongoing protests across the U.S. and in cities around the world are a response to white-on-black homicide. This is not the case. The filmed death of George Floyd, a 46-year-old black man, on May 25 has ignited global protests against police brutality, specifically the disproportionate use of lethal force against black Americans ( here).
Data on fatal shootings by police in the U.S. have shown that while more white people than black people are killed by police overall, black people are killed at higher rates relative to population size. Since 2015, The Washington Post has logged every fatal shooting by an on-duty police officer in the U.S. ( here ). According to The Post, “Although half of the people shot and killed by police are white, black Americans are shot at a disproportionate rate,” being “killed by police at more than twice the rate of white Americans.”
The takeaway is the per capita murder rate by blacks is out of control.
If they were disproportionately emitting CO2 you'd be ranting about this.
If they were disproportionately emitting CO2 you'd be ranting about this.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Nuzzo also cautioned that all these numbers were rough approximations for the sake of illustration, and that the reality is much more complicated than can be captured in either a single Facebook graph.