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Trotskygrad
git pull origin master
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so what are your opinions on the "straight support arm stance" aka the "magpul stance", complete with thumb above the barrel

I've heard it's good, I've heard it's bullshit

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/6943/afgm.jpg

Last edited by Trotskygrad (2012-04-05 00:00:11)

1stSFOD-Delta
Mike "The Spooge Gobbler" Morales
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My drill sergeant in basic taught us to shoot that way for reflexive firing.

It's how I shoot.
http://www.itwirx.com/other/hksignature.jpg

Baba Booey
eleven bravo
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when you were in basic were you issued m4's?
Tu Stultus Es
1stSFOD-Delta
Mike "The Spooge Gobbler" Morales
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Yep.
http://www.itwirx.com/other/hksignature.jpg

Baba Booey
1stSFOD-Delta
Mike "The Spooge Gobbler" Morales
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We even had M68s on them.
http://www.itwirx.com/other/hksignature.jpg

Baba Booey
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I can't get comfortable in that stance, you've got more control with how your hand is positioned. I've got it on my bushmaster but I just can't get a good feel for it
http://static.bf2s.com/files/user/17445/carhartt.jpg
chuyskywalker
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I have one on my mp1522 and I really like it. I'd have a bipod on my keltec su-16 (.223rem) and I prefer this approach.
krazed
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how do you find the SU-16 ?
1stSFOD-Delta
Mike "The Spooge Gobbler" Morales
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http://westernsportonline.com/images/Daniel%20Defense%20MK18%20Upper.jpg

http://www.larryknesek.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/KAC-nt4-qdss-taupe.jpg

http://www.jsesurplus.com/ProductImages/553a65tan.jpg

http://www.ipscgm.com/images/sf_m900_tan.jpg
http://www.itwirx.com/other/hksignature.jpg

Baba Booey
rdx-fx
...
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Anyone here get any hands-on with the Mk13-Mod5?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Mk.13_MOD_5_sniper_rifle.jpg

Apparently, it's a Remington 700 (long action) in 300 Win Mag
26.5" Lilja barrel (looks to be a stainless steel)
AICS (LA 2.0)
Badger Ordnance MARS rail
Knight's Armament Mk11 suppressor
[Nightforce NXS scope usually attached]


I am debating selling my 300 WSM (Rem 700 WSM w/sako extractor,AICS 1.5 SA, 25.5" Krieger SS barrel,JP brake),
and building something a little more interesting;
Surgeon action, 300 Norma Magnum (not the old 308 norma) launching 230gr Berger Hybrids
AICS 1.5 (tan/dark earth)
Krieger barrel (26-28"?)
Badger IMUNS (night sight mount, fits on AICS bipod mount)

-or-
Same as above, but build a 300 WSM on a Surgeon long action (i.e. 300 Win Mag 3.3" COAL)

Short action 300 WSM (2.95" cartridge COAL) has a muzzle velocity of 2750, and a max supersonic range of 1675yds
(or 26 MOA drop @ 1000yds)
Long action 300 WSM (3.25" cartridge COAL) should have a muzzle velocity of 2850, and a max range of 1750yds
(or 24 MOA drop @ 1000yds)
300 Norma Magnum should be just under 3000 fps with the 230 bergers, giving it a max range of about 1875yds
(or 21 MOA drop @ 1000yds)

I am not 100% happy with my existing Remington 700 action.
Sako extractor doesn't give me a "warm fuzzy" like a more robust M16 style extractor (or Winchester 70 extractor) would.
Slight out-of-round concentricity errors systemic of the Remington 700 action, exacerbated by the very rigid AICS mounting (slightly tweaks the action when bolted down).

My existing rifle will pull 1/2 MOA groups out to 1000 yards, most days of the week.
Just a bit of a picky beast finding a load it likes.
Have to be real precise in working up loads, and spend the time to find exactly what it likes.
Currently, it likes 230 berger hybrids on top of H4831sc, launched at 2750

From what I've heard, the 300 Norma & Surgeon action are both much much less picky about what ammo they'll shoot well.
Put both of those together, the 300 Norma cartridge and the Surgeon action, and you should have a tac driving hammer of a rifle!

Can barely believe that NSW Crane went with the Rem700 action for their Mk13-Mod5, instead of a Surgeon action.
Lilja barrel makes some sense, as they tend to stay cleaner under sustained fire. I'd still go with a Krieger, but...
I'm looking closely at the Mk13-Mod5, as NSW Crane generally has good reasons for their decisions.  Generally...

Last edited by rdx-fx (2012-04-15 20:47:29)

RAIMIUS
You with the face!
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+244|3051|US

Trotskygrad wrote:

so what are your opinions on the "straight support arm stance" aka the "magpul stance", complete with thumb above the barrel

I've heard it's good, I've heard it's bullshit

It works very well for short-range shooting, and quick transitions.
stryyker
bad touch
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This mess this morning
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/6272/imag0086l.jpg

now looks like this
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3520/imag0079n.jpg
1stSFOD-Delta
Mike "The Spooge Gobbler" Morales
Offline No Xfire No stats No stats No stats No Email No PM No website
+376|2315|Blue Mountain State

rdx-fx wrote:

Anyone here get any hands-on with the Mk13-Mod5?



Apparently, it's a Remington 700 (long action) in 300 Win Mag
26.5" Lilja barrel (looks to be a stainless steel)
AICS (LA 2.0)
Badger Ordnance MARS rail
Knight's Armament Mk11 suppressor
[Nightforce NXS scope usually attached]


I am debating selling my 300 WSM (Rem 700 WSM w/sako extractor,AICS 1.5 SA, 25.5" Krieger SS barrel,JP brake),
and building something a little more interesting;
Surgeon action, 300 Norma Magnum (not the old 308 norma) launching 230gr Berger Hybrids
AICS 1.5 (tan/dark earth)
Krieger barrel (26-28"?)
Badger IMUNS (night sight mount, fits on AICS bipod mount)

-or-
Same as above, but build a 300 WSM on a Surgeon long action (i.e. 300 Win Mag 3.3" COAL)

Short action 300 WSM (2.95" cartridge COAL) has a muzzle velocity of 2750, and a max supersonic range of 1675yds
(or 26 MOA drop @ 1000yds)
Long action 300 WSM (3.25" cartridge COAL) should have a muzzle velocity of 2850, and a max range of 1750yds
(or 24 MOA drop @ 1000yds)
300 Norma Magnum should be just under 3000 fps with the 230 bergers, giving it a max range of about 1875yds
(or 21 MOA drop @ 1000yds)

I am not 100% happy with my existing Remington 700 action.
Sako extractor doesn't give me a "warm fuzzy" like a more robust M16 style extractor (or Winchester 70 extractor) would.
Slight out-of-round concentricity errors systemic of the Remington 700 action, exacerbated by the very rigid AICS mounting (slightly tweaks the action when bolted down).

My existing rifle will pull 1/2 MOA groups out to 1000 yards, most days of the week.
Just a bit of a picky beast finding a load it likes.
Have to be real precise in working up loads, and spend the time to find exactly what it likes.
Currently, it likes 230 berger hybrids on top of H4831sc, launched at 2750

From what I've heard, the 300 Norma & Surgeon action are both much much less picky about what ammo they'll shoot well.
Put both of those together, the 300 Norma cartridge and the Surgeon action, and you should have a tac driving hammer of a rifle!

Can barely believe that NSW Crane went with the Rem700 action for their Mk13-Mod5, instead of a Surgeon action.
Lilja barrel makes some sense, as they tend to stay cleaner under sustained fire. I'd still go with a Krieger, but...
I'm looking closely at the Mk13-Mod5, as NSW Crane generally has good reasons for their decisions.  Generally...
I shot the Mk13 when the SF dudes were at the range. Shot that and their Mk12 Mod 0s. Both suppressed.
http://www.itwirx.com/other/hksignature.jpg

Baba Booey
Dilbert_X
King of the Impossible
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+1,528|2442|Saviour of the Universe

rdx-fx wrote:

Anyone here get any hands-on with the Mk13-Mod5?



Apparently, it's a Remington 700 (long action) in 300 Win Mag
26.5" Lilja barrel (looks to be a stainless steel)
AICS (LA 2.0)
Badger Ordnance MARS rail
Knight's Armament Mk11 suppressor
[Nightforce NXS scope usually attached]


I am debating selling my 300 WSM (Rem 700 WSM w/sako extractor,AICS 1.5 SA, 25.5" Krieger SS barrel,JP brake),
and building something a little more interesting;
Surgeon action, 300 Norma Magnum (not the old 308 norma) launching 230gr Berger Hybrids
AICS 1.5 (tan/dark earth)
Krieger barrel (26-28"?)
Badger IMUNS (night sight mount, fits on AICS bipod mount)

-or-
Same as above, but build a 300 WSM on a Surgeon long action (i.e. 300 Win Mag 3.3" COAL)

Short action 300 WSM (2.95" cartridge COAL) has a muzzle velocity of 2750, and a max supersonic range of 1675yds
(or 26 MOA drop @ 1000yds)
Long action 300 WSM (3.25" cartridge COAL) should have a muzzle velocity of 2850, and a max range of 1750yds
(or 24 MOA drop @ 1000yds)
300 Norma Magnum should be just under 3000 fps with the 230 bergers, giving it a max range of about 1875yds
(or 21 MOA drop @ 1000yds)

I am not 100% happy with my existing Remington 700 action.
Sako extractor doesn't give me a "warm fuzzy" like a more robust M16 style extractor (or Winchester 70 extractor) would.
Slight out-of-round concentricity errors systemic of the Remington 700 action, exacerbated by the very rigid AICS mounting (slightly tweaks the action when bolted down).

My existing rifle will pull 1/2 MOA groups out to 1000 yards, most days of the week.
Just a bit of a picky beast finding a load it likes.
Have to be real precise in working up loads, and spend the time to find exactly what it likes.
Currently, it likes 230 berger hybrids on top of H4831sc, launched at 2750

From what I've heard, the 300 Norma & Surgeon action are both much much less picky about what ammo they'll shoot well.
Put both of those together, the 300 Norma cartridge and the Surgeon action, and you should have a tac driving hammer of a rifle!

Can barely believe that NSW Crane went with the Rem700 action for their Mk13-Mod5, instead of a Surgeon action.
Lilja barrel makes some sense, as they tend to stay cleaner under sustained fire. I'd still go with a Krieger, but...
I'm looking closely at the Mk13-Mod5, as NSW Crane generally has good reasons for their decisions.  Generally...
That all sounds expensive and not too satisfying.
Buy a Dillon and 10,000 bullets and primers for the 9mm.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
rdx-fx
...
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1stSFOD-Delta wrote:

I shot the Mk13 when the SF dudes were at the range. Shot that and their Mk12 Mod 0s. Both suppressed.
Any failure to extract on empty cases?
(Only real problem I've heard of with the Mk13.  Guessing it was a newbie gunsmith at NSW Crane getting a little sloppy with the chamber reamer)

General accuracy on paper?  1/2MOA?
(Should be about 1/2MOA with the new Mk248 ammo)

Consistency of zero, going from cold bore shots to warm bore?
(A weakness of button rifled barrels in general. Of all button rifled barrels, Lilja would be the one manufacturer that might not have this issue. To really mimimize this issue, use a cut rifled stainless steel barrel, from Krieger or such. Cryo treat, if you like, but overkill for a Krieger)

Dilbert X wrote:

That all sounds expensive and not too satisfying.
Buy a Dillon and 10,000 bullets and primers for the 9mm.
Burning through cases of Federal 9mm for now.
Will start reloading for it as soon as my stash of empty brass is sufficient.


Doing a little experiment with the 300 WSM.
Cutting the throat forward, so a loaded Berger 230 Target (G7 0.380) is about 3.25" overall length.
Makes it a single-feed in my short action rifle.
But, if it gives me enough velocity, I may just build a long action (i.e. 300 Win Mag length) rifle.

Currently, loaded to short action magazine length (2.95"), and using the Berger 230 Tactical (G7 0.368), 63.5gr of H4831sc gives me 2750 fps.
Loaded to long action lengths (3.25" or so), there's room for 68.1gr of H4831 (and H4350 to Retumbo are comparable densities).
Extrapolating the energy curve, I should be able to get to 2850-2900 fps with the 230's.

  • The extra 100-150 fps velocity isn't the driving reason behind the experiment - just one factor.
  • Being able to load the longer, higher BC bullet (0.380 G7 Target, versus the 0.368 G7 Tactical).
  • Then there's the longer bullet shank pushed into the barrel, helping align the bullet in the bore pre-launch (reason #1 for not just using the old, belted 300 WM).  Would rather align on the bullet, and have a little more tolerance for the case neck to expand - tight neck tolerance in the chamber means hand turning necks (ugh), and (more importantly) makes the rifle NOT "field reliable".  Tight neck tolerances are for pristine clean benchrest princess rifles, not a field use rifle. Makes more sense to get bullet/bore concentricity and rifling alignment from the bullet shank.
  • Finally (and this is the key advantage of the 300 WSM over the older belted 300 WM), the 300 WSM is on average 12.5% more efficient on powder.  Given the same bullet, same powder, and same muzzle velocity, the short/fat 300 WSM generally burns 12.5% less powder to do the same exact job.  Which translates into less ES/SD in velocity and less barrel/throat erosion - more efficient burn, more powder burns in the case, less powder is being pushed down the barrel, etc.  Also one of the reason the shorter, fatter 338 Norma Magnum is more efficient and consistent than the long, skinny, tapered 338 Lapua.
Trotskygrad
git pull origin master
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+353|2336|Vortex Ring State
eotechs are NOT this boxy, amirite

Uzique
dasein.
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+2,864|2807
... why do you care?
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The A W S M F O X
I Won't Deny It
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Uzique wrote:

... why do you care?
UnkleRukus
That Guy
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Sent in the paperwork for my LTC. Should see it i. 4-8 weeks. Cant wait, gonna get a nice 10/22 to start, then work on getting my dads winchester model 1894 in shape. I cant wait to fire that sucker, lever actions have always been a favorite.
If the women don't find ya handsome. They should at least find ya handy.
krazed
Admiral of the Bathtub
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Trotskygrad wrote:

eotechs are NOT this boxy, amirite

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjyIyBGljdY
in my experience, no
Dilbert_X
King of the Impossible
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Pardini acquired, grip is pretty but useless, trigger mech full of gunk.

Needs some work....

Pics soon.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
1stSFOD-Delta
Mike "The Spooge Gobbler" Morales
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+376|2315|Blue Mountain State

Trotskygrad wrote:

eotechs are NOT this boxy, amirite

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjyIyBGljdY
http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss227/DeltaBF2s/013-1.jpg
http://www.itwirx.com/other/hksignature.jpg

Baba Booey
1stSFOD-Delta
Mike "The Spooge Gobbler" Morales
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+376|2315|Blue Mountain State
Back home.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss227/DeltaBF2s/Picture001-1.jpg


http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss227/DeltaBF2s/Picture002-1.jpg
http://www.itwirx.com/other/hksignature.jpg

Baba Booey
Trotskygrad
git pull origin master
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+353|2336|Vortex Ring State

1stSFOD-Delta wrote:

Back home.

you own a beretta?

thought you thought they were pieces of shit, though maybe that just applies to your issue pistol

also, is that a glock17l?
rdx-fx
...
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Still missing an HK45 and Browning HiPower

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