Fester53D&E
Member
+3|6401|Los Angeles, CA

Burwhale the Avenger wrote:

If they could get rid of Ahmadinejad that country could really go places.
Unfortunately it really doesn't have much to do with Ahmadinejad.  Iran was the same before him and will be the same after him.  He is the figurehead for the Ayatollahs.  They are the 'supreme leaders' (my words) of the country.
blademaster
I'm moving to Brazil
+2,075|6616

CameronPoe wrote:

FEOS wrote:

max wrote:

That must suck for the people who live there. Then again this is another county and none of our business
This wouldn't fall into the category of human rights violations? You get killed if you exercise freedom of religion?
Lots and lots of countries violate human rights and nobody does jackshit. Unfortunately for Iran the only countries that violate human rights that other countries decide to meddle with are those with oil or those that are in a militarily strategic location.
very good point +1
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6513|Texas - Bigger than France

blademaster wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

FEOS wrote:


This wouldn't fall into the category of human rights violations? You get killed if you exercise freedom of religion?
Lots and lots of countries violate human rights and nobody does jackshit. Unfortunately for Iran the only countries that violate human rights that other countries decide to meddle with are those with oil or those that are in a militarily strategic location.
very good point +1
Foreign policy requires interest abroad to implement.  "Meddling" is the argument.

In the case presented, it's a clear line in the sand between muslims and non-muslims.  I'm not one to believe the Middle East lacks a foreign interest....
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6728|Argentina

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

and I dont like you at all either.  now stay on topic.  cesar chavez has nothing to do with the your OP.
Oh noes.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6614
quit derailing your own thread.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6728|Argentina

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

quit derailing your own thread.
Sorry, I know that's your job, carry on.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6614
well, you took the bait.  hook, line and sinker.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6728|Argentina

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

well, you took the bait.  hook, line and sinker.
Of course.
Mr Caek
You will be baked, and then there will be cake.
+12|5970|Lincoln, UK
Iran is really fucked up.
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6707|Salt Lake City

Fester53D&E wrote:

Burwhale the Avenger wrote:

If they could get rid of Ahmadinejad that country could really go places.
Unfortunately it really doesn't have much to do with Ahmadinejad.  Iran was the same before him and will be the same after him.  He is the figurehead for the Ayatollahs.  They are the 'supreme leaders' (my words) of the country.
That is exactly right.  Until the Ayatollahs are brought under control, who the president figure head is just doesn't matter.
Marinejuana
local
+415|6556|Seattle

Spark wrote:

Democracy only works in countries with educated people.
LOL, but name one country where the majority of citizens understand their political process. As long as we are commonly referring to our system as a democracy, then most citizens of "developed" countries are obviously not educated. Your statement is still true, and it contributes to why we are not a democracy. There is a huge difference between the standardized test scores of "educated "countries and their access to information regarding the structures of power which support them (or do not support them).

sergeriver wrote:

Well, I suppose I should have left this to Lowing, but this is too much.  How can Ahmadinejad claim Iran is moderate and then they have this BS in the penal code?  One thing is Sharia law, which is from the Dark Ages, but adding this to a penal code in the 21st Century is outrageous.
It's called national sovereignty and it's in your best interests to leave it alone.

CameronPoe wrote:

FEOS wrote:

max wrote:

That must suck for the people who live there. Then again this is another county and none of our business
This wouldn't fall into the category of human rights violations? You get killed if you exercise freedom of religion?
Lots and lots of countries violate human rights and nobody does jackshit. Unfortunately for Iran the only countries that violate human rights that other countries decide to meddle with are those with oil or those that are in a militarily strategic location.
you are correct

Bernadictus wrote:

Wow. Just wow.
I always knew these people lived in the stoneages, but hell. Their leaders are living in a primordial soup.
Research ethnocentrism. You are not their judge, and your pathetic attempt at dehumanizing their culture is tasteless.

Dilbert_X wrote:

I was talking about the unwritten rule around here that, while most domestic policies are off limits, those that clearly violate human rights are no longer strictly "domestic" in nature.
I guess you mean like suspension of habeus corpus, cruel and unusual punishment - ie torture, backtracking on the Geneva convention....... 
thx

B.Schuss wrote:

well, that's unfortunate, but I guess that's what you get for living in an islamic nation. But hey, it's their country, and they live in the system of government of their own choice.

They have had a revolution before, I guess they can have another one if necessary.
thx


ATG wrote:

Welcome to the Dark Side Serge.

You now see Iran/Islam for what it is; a cancer on the World.
Nah, they are less significant than you think. Corporate owned world trade is the world's cancer. Sure, lets let 1% of the world population suck the blood from our every transaction while they sit in castles contributing absolutely nothing to anybody besides shit-stains for some desperate Mexican to clean (and eventually our middle class, just watch). Sure, let's pretend like there are CEO's that somehow deserve to claim ownership over the hard work and innovations of millions. After all of the incredible technological advances of the last century, and in general, our citizens are content to let the richest 1% claim ownership of all of it as long as they let us lease a car or watch cable.

And ATG, I read the thread about your business, I think it fucking sucks that you are being low balled by illegals, but I should comment that small businesses used to do a hell of a lot better before the Nazi corporations bought stake in every industry and drove the cost of labor into the ground. These days, you can't run a competitive business unless the general idea is to start a small scale sweatshop to compete with the corporate gulags.

There are 3 main reasons why the mass-media breaks its back to convince you that Muslims are bad:
1. Wars for corporate oil
2. Public debt generated by a war for oil, the interest on which is payed to the corporate banks
3. Fear of Muslims adequately distracts the public from our eroding stake in the corporate US economy, and more directly, our eroding civil liberties and dollar.

Its a rock solid business plan, 'innit.

Last edited by Marinejuana (2008-02-27 12:47:07)

Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6513|Texas - Bigger than France
just put the pipe down and walk away

Last edited by Pug (2008-02-27 12:47:17)

GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6614
marinejuana, the amount of nonsense you spew far outweighs your good points.
Marinejuana
local
+415|6556|Seattle

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

marinejuana, the amount of nonsense you spew far outweighs your good points.
Well I wasn't planning on submitting that post to any journals for peer-review, but I'm certain that you can find more substance in my post than many of the others here. For example, there are many posts like your empty, but insulting, reply that add virtually nothing to the "debate and serious talk" beyond an admission of extreme bias.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6614
on a scale of 1 to 10, I read your last post and started to think "hmm, 6 maybe 7"  then I skimmed to the last paragraph and thought "0"
Xearo
Banned
+4|5880|Maryland
im cool, I post on forums
Xearo
Banned
+4|5880|Maryland

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

on a scale of 1 to 10, I read your last post and started to think "hmm, 6 maybe 7"  then I skimmed to the last paragraph and thought "0"
Like I said Marine, more then 70% of the morons who post on forums are too stupid to understand our govt. and makes it a waste of your time to post in the first place....
Its sad how dumb people are though.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6513|Texas - Bigger than France

Marinejuana wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

marinejuana, the amount of nonsense you spew far outweighs your good points.
Well I wasn't planning on submitting that post to any journals for peer-review, but I'm certain that you can find more substance in my post than many of the others here. For example, there are many posts like your empty, but insulting, reply that add virtually nothing to the "debate and serious talk" beyond an admission of extreme bias.
Ok, I'll try:

Corporations employ people.  It is hopeful that those in charge of those corporations are ethically operating as being corporate-responsible.  Making money is not a crime, unless you are stepping on someone to accomplish this goal.  This is a point you agree with.

So your point is that countries have the sovereignity to kill their own people because of religious intolerance, and yet they shouldn't be held to the same standards as corporations?

Those who control the oil are elevated to a position of power.  Rather than be smart about their position of power, the radical branches of Islam have taken it upon themselves to dictate the terms of the deal.

As far your comments on the labor market, ATG's case has to do with unethical people who are not playing by the laws we have in the US.  I'm not quite sure how this equates to a biz plan revolving around starting a sweatshop.  I would think the labor market has been driven down by globalization of the economy.  How long do you think a company can maintain an edge when it's paying 10x as much for a US worker rather then elsewhere?  So how long do you think a company can hold out before competition forces them grudgely to make this unfortunate decision?  Isn't the corporation's actions dictated by its market?  You might want to assign the blame to the corporation...I don't as I see it as eventual.

And your points about the war are more of a conspriracy theory.

Here's a simple topic - if you are Iranian and decide you no longer follow Allah = death.  Your response: it's the media feeding the corporate cow.

Did I misinterpret you?
Sorcerer0513
Member
+18|6513|Outer Space

Pug wrote:

Corporations employ people.  It is hopeful that those in charge of those corporations are ethically operating as being corporate-responsible.  Making money is not a crime, unless you are stepping on someone to accomplish this goal.  This is a point you agree with.
LOL, what world do you live in, and can I come live there too?
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6513|Texas - Bigger than France

Sorcerer0513 wrote:

Pug wrote:

Corporations employ people.  It is hopeful that those in charge of those corporations are ethically operating as being corporate-responsible.  Making money is not a crime, unless you are stepping on someone to accomplish this goal.  This is a point you agree with.
LOL, what world do you live in, and can I come live there too?
So in other words, since I own a company I'm automatically evil?
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

max wrote:

That must suck for the people who live there. Then again this is another county and none of our business
So said the US public in times preceding WW1 and WW2.
DeathBecomesYu
Member
+171|6150

sergeriver wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

FEOS wrote:


This wouldn't fall into the category of human rights violations? You get killed if you exercise freedom of religion?
Lots and lots of countries violate human rights and nobody does jackshit. Unfortunately for Iran the only countries that violate human rights that other countries decide to meddle with are those with oil or those that are in a militarily strategic location.
Cam, if we criticize Israel for violating human rights, we can't look the other way when Iran does things like this, they live in the Dark Ages really dude.
This is what I have said several times. There are people here who will jump on certain bandwagons and scream about human rights and how bad this or that country is and what should be done. The next breath, they speak about isolationism. There are lots of problems in this world that sometimes need outside help. The Palestinian issue will not be resolved inside of the Palestinian state on its own....this will take outside help. There are quite a few current hot spots that may need outside help. The problem is what kind of outside help and how far does it go before some conspiracy nut job starts yelling "war for oil".

Sometimes you are damned if you do and damned if you dont and there are quite a few examples of failure because no one did anything to try to help or to stop mass murder. Is Iran at that point of outside intervention....hell no....but there are major problems there and hopefully change will occur before the outside world decides to step in. Serge's OP is very, very valid in the screwed up the LEADERSHIP of Iran is. But who is going to help change it, who will ultimately pay the price if nothing is done or if something is done. I don't know and no one else really does...its just plain BS. But I still find it funny how some people here value certain countries human rights issues more important than others.
DeathBecomesYu
Member
+171|6150

B.Schuss wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

Absolute bullshit.  A country should not kill it's own people.  I say the United Nations or something should write a new resolution on human rights, that would kick the shit out of North Korea, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.  I hate it when people say it's none of our business.
funny you should say that....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_pu … ted_States

"Since the reinstatement of the death penalty in 1976, there have been 1,099 executions in the United States as of October 2007. There were 53 executions in 2006."
Comparing United States and how we have dealt with criminals who have committed major crimes against other humans with killing people because they dont believe in a certain religion is ridiculous. There is no comparison and almost make you sound like you are defending their right to snuff out human life based on religious beliefs. Seriously.....this is a totally ridiculous comparison and a total failure at arguing. It just your attempt to draw big bad America into a stupid comparison. There is capital punishment in many, many modern democracies and it has nothing to do with how America and SOME of its states choose to punish major capital crimes.

This OP is about how far some of these countries are willing to go to keep their people oppressed using religion, fear and death and that is exactly what is going on with or without these kinds of laws in almost every single Muslim country. If you honestly think there is a similarity or a real connection between the comparison you made....then there is something wrong with you.
Sorcerer0513
Member
+18|6513|Outer Space

Pug wrote:

So in other words, since I own a company I'm automatically evil?
Not necessarily, no. But I'm kinda tired of dumbass company directors, so you'll have to excuse me if I don't share your views and come across as somewhat rude.

I find it funny, how us normal workers were ready to make a sacrifice for the company, working overtime past what the law allows(and were paid crap too). You know what the almighty ethical leadership did then? Never mind that at times we were working 12 hours a day, they wanted us to work saturdays AND start night shift on Sunday, and at no extra pay. And THEN they dared to say, we can do that, director signs some paper or other, and it's all by the law. They sure were happy to break it before, didn't they, when it suited them. But now, it was all by the law, so that the workers couldn't complain.

Never mind that we wouldn't have to work overtime in the first place, if they had any brains. But no, let's assign one person on a machine that needs two, then complain why everything is going slowly, and why the second table isn't loaded yet, while you're picking the stuff off the line at the other end. Or better yet, put two noobies to work on it, and then wonder why nothing gets done. Awsome.

And when workers ask for basic things, like gloves or worksuits or shoes(that they are supposed to provide, by law), make fun of them, insult them and do nothing. That sure is a good way to make workers happy. I mean, who cares for the workers. It's not like the workers do anything, sheesh...

And this was a smallish to medium size company, I can't imagine the stuff that goes on in corporations. Wait, as a matter of fact I can. I still recall that EA scandal. So much for ethics...

I sure am glad I left, but I hate maths, so maybe I'd be better off if I stayed.
Sorcerer0513
Member
+18|6513|Outer Space

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

There is capital punishment in many, many modern democracies and it has nothing to do with how America and SOME of its states choose to punish major capital crimes.
There is?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Deat … ld_Map.png

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