There is nothing hypocritical about anything I said... you want to talk hypocrasy??!!....explain why you should have the freedom to desacrate the very symbol that gives you the freedom to do shit like this?? It is reprehensible and appalling. I stand by all I said....It should be illegal for an American to burn an American flag.....The rest of you can burn whatever the hell ya want. Including American flags.Bubbalo wrote:
Yes, and I'm pointing out the hypocritical nature of this when compared to many of your other statements.lowing wrote:
All during the cold war, (before you were born) I can not recall ever hearing a story in which an American burned the Soviet flag.....But again for the 5th time.......I don't care about what others do with there protesting, I don't want Americans burning American flags.
Poll
Should flag burning be illegal?
| yes | 32% | 32% - 43 | ||||
| no | 31% | 31% - 42 | ||||
| fuck no | 36% | 36% - 49 | ||||
| Total: 134 | ||||||
Well if you can't burn it it doesn't give you that freedom, now does it?
I think you have a warped sense of what it is to be free........Maybe you should sit in the corner and think about it before you post again. While you are doing it, think about all of the sacrafices made by yours and my countrymen in the pursuit of freedom for us all.Bubbalo wrote:
So, someone who doesn't feel any freedom should be taken away is a bad American? Because if more Americans were like him, I imagine you'd have a much better name internationally.
read up, you better ask your teacher or your mommy and daddy what freedom is all about.Bubbalo wrote:
Well if you can't burn it it doesn't give you that freedom, now does it?
i agree. freedom of speech doesnt mean u can express your hatred. kkk anyone?lowing wrote:
read up, you better ask your teacher or your mommy and daddy what freedom is all about.Bubbalo wrote:
Well if you can't burn it it doesn't give you that freedom, now does it?
heres one on free speech.
http://www.illwillpress.com/ click on the main movie
Last edited by cyborg_ninja-117 (2006-05-27 08:28:13)
lowing wrote:
I think you have a warped sense of what it is to be free........Maybe you should sit in the corner and think about it before you post again.
Freedom is the ability to do as one wishes without fear of repercussion. Typically, the western world interprets this as the ability to as one wishes without fear of repercussion provided it does not harm others. Burning a flag harms no-one. The poster you felt was a poor American argued that he felt there was no debate, which you said made him a poor American. I pointed out this was contradictory to you idea that America is the home of freedom. Where's the problem?lowing wrote:
read up, you better ask your teacher or your mommy and daddy what freedom is all about.
You know, I could just as easily play that card. I shudder to think what my great-uncle would think of us being told we can only take protests so far. But in the end, it means nothing. As Bertrand Russel said, "War does not decide who is right, war decides who is left". In short, how about you try to argue based on merit of you stance instead of playing the 'ole "I'm right because I'm veteran and they know everything" card.lowing wrote:
While you are doing it, think about all of the sacrafices made by yours and my countrymen in the pursuit of freedom for us all.
Yes, it does. The KKK, however, incites violence. We could also talk about the fact that their comments are racist, but the problem is that many comments can seem racist/sexist/etc. to some, and not others.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
i agree. freedom of speech doesnt mean u can express your hatred. kkk anyone?
Once again,Bubbalo wrote:
lowing wrote:
I think you have a warped sense of what it is to be free........Maybe you should sit in the corner and think about it before you post again.Freedom is the ability to do as one wishes without fear of repercussion. Typically, the western world interprets this as the ability to as one wishes without fear of repercussion provided it does not harm others. Burning a flag harms no-one. The poster you felt was a poor American argued that he felt there was no debate, which you said made him a poor American. I pointed out this was contradictory to you idea that America is the home of freedom. Where's the problem?lowing wrote:
read up, you better ask your teacher or your mommy and daddy what freedom is all about.You know, I could just as easily play that card. I shudder to think what my great-uncle would think of us being told we can only take protests so far. But in the end, it means nothing. As Bertrand Russel said, "War does not decide who is right, war decides who is left". In short, how about you try to argue based on merit of you stance instead of playing the 'ole "I'm right because I'm veteran and they know everything" card.lowing wrote:
While you are doing it, think about all of the sacrafices made by yours and my countrymen in the pursuit of freedom for us all.Yes, it does. The KKK, however, incites violence. We could also talk about the fact that their comments are racist, but the problem is that many comments can seem racist/sexist/etc. to some, and not others.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
i agree. freedom of speech doesnt mean u can express your hatred. kkk anyone?
You should have the right t oprotest whatever the hell ya want, just as you said, but you should never have the right to protest the very symbol that made all freedom of speech possible.
I am not playing any "card". it is a very real fact that many people died to preserve the freedoms that we enjoy. And for you to spit on that sacrifice is disgusting.
I would imagine your uncle would probably bend you over his knee and beat the ever living shit outta you.
Arrested nah. More like deported and only allowed back in until they learn to appreciate what their country does for them.
If you don't appreciate something your country does or doesn't do you have much more responsible options than burning your flag like a coward.
If you don't appreciate something your country does or doesn't do you have much more responsible options than burning your flag like a coward.
Talking about people dieing has nothing to do with whether it is fair to be able to burn a flag. As I have stated many times, if *any* freedom is taken away, their sacrifice is in vain. Your comment was not to do with the merits, or lack thereof, of flag burning, but rather an emotive appeal, which is a sure sign of someone who has no logic to his arguments.lowing wrote:
I am not playing any "card". it is a very real fact that many people died to preserve the freedoms that we enjoy. And for you to spit on that sacrifice is disgusting.
Because you knew him so well?lowing wrote:
I would imagine your uncle would probably bend you over his knee and beat the ever living shit outta you.
A society cannot sustain itself without denying certain freedoms. Freedom = the ability to think and act in any way you choose.Bubbalo wrote:
Talking about people dieing has nothing to do with whether it is fair to be able to burn a flag. As I have stated many times, if *any* freedom is taken away, their sacrifice is in vain. Your comment was not to do with the merits, or lack thereof, of flag burning, but rather an emotive appeal, which is a sure sign of someone who has no logic to his arguments.lowing wrote:
I am not playing any "card". it is a very real fact that many people died to preserve the freedoms that we enjoy. And for you to spit on that sacrifice is disgusting.Because you knew him so well?lowing wrote:
I would imagine your uncle would probably bend you over his knee and beat the ever living shit outta you.
Yes, but as I said, this is comonly interpreted as "the ability to think and act in any way you choose provided noone is harmed" for feasibility purposes.
I have seen more logic in one of his statements than all your's put together.Bubbalo wrote:
Talking about people dieing has nothing to do with whether it is fair to be able to burn a flag. As I have stated many times, if *any* freedom is taken away, their sacrifice is in vain. Your comment was not to do with the merits, or lack thereof, of flag burning, but rather an emotive appeal, which is a sure sign of someone who has no logic to his arguments.lowing wrote:
I am not playing any "card". it is a very real fact that many people died to preserve the freedoms that we enjoy. And for you to spit on that sacrifice is disgusting.
Time for you to go back to school.
Ok, so why am I wrong?anzus wrote:
I have seen more logic in one of his statements than all your's put together.
Time for you to go back to school.
whats the argument you said Lowing has no logic where in fact his statements are the logical ones and you just want to argue with no valid or logical thought. what I would call a troll with no brain making you WRONG
anzus, you keep insisting lowing has logic and I don't without saying why, at least lowing makes an attempt to put forth logical argument (which I feel he fails, and he feels I fail). You add nothing to the debate. In short: either put up or shut up.
around we go, your not making any logical sense, you asked why I thought you where wrong. I think your wrong because Lowing is logical you are not. simple. Or shall we get on the merry-go-round
But you fail to say *where* what I say is illogical. I'm wanting you to tell me at what point the logic breaks down.
Bubbalo wrote this------>"Talking about people dieing has nothing to do with whether it is fair to be able to burn a flag. As I have stated many times, if *any* freedom is taken away, their sacrifice is in vain. Your comment was not to do with the merits, or lack thereof, of flag burning, but rather an emotive appeal, which is a sure sign of someone who has no logic to his arguments."Bubbalo wrote:
But you fail to say *where* what I say is illogical. I'm wanting you to tell me at what point the logic breaks down.
You said that, my view point isn't logical because I interject a certain amount of emotion into my argument. I will maintain that ANY view point or opinion is formed on emotion about the topic. Even those in a court of law. It is illogical for you to tell me that I am wrong because I feel strongly about it. THAT, is what having a lack of an argument is, not the other way around.
No, your viewpoint is illogical because as soon as people do not have the freedom to burn the flag they do not have complete freedom and therefore do not owe it to anyone *not* to burn the flag, creating a Catch 22.
Your attempt to use an emotional appeal, whilst and excellent *persuasive* technique, is, like all persuasive techniques, and attempt to dodge logic and reason.
Your attempt to use an emotional appeal, whilst and excellent *persuasive* technique, is, like all persuasive techniques, and attempt to dodge logic and reason.
So someone should have the freedom to yell fire in a movie theater........No one was hurt since there really wasn't a fire....and if our country doesn't allow you to do such things, we are not truly free???........and THIS, is your argument that we are a hypocritical nation and not a free country??....I have said my piece on this issue, I am moving on.Bubbalo wrote:
No, your viewpoint is illogical because as soon as people do not have the freedom to burn the flag they do not have complete freedom and therefore do not owe it to anyone *not* to burn the flag, creating a Catch 22.
Your attempt to use an emotional appeal, whilst and excellent *persuasive* technique, is, like all persuasive techniques, and attempt to dodge logic and reason.
I will continue to wrongly and deviantly respect our flag and our nation and prosper by living here. And you can tell me I am illogical for doing so allllllllllll ya want. I refuse to ride this "merry-go-round" any further.
Bubbalo, I guess I do not have complete freedom. After all, I cannot drive as fast a I want on local roadways.
All laws are not solely based on logic. Most are based on logic, (accepted) morality, and emotional views. I think the root of the question is centered around whether the flag is enough of a symbol to legally protect from destruction during protests. I think it is. That is my emotionally biased view.
Yep, all persuasive techniques dodge logic and reason. Where did you get this?
All laws are not solely based on logic. Most are based on logic, (accepted) morality, and emotional views. I think the root of the question is centered around whether the flag is enough of a symbol to legally protect from destruction during protests. I think it is. That is my emotionally biased view.
Yep, all persuasive techniques dodge logic and reason. Where did you get this?
Last edited by RAIMIUS (2006-05-28 13:14:40)
Except that speeding brings harm, as does yelling fire in a crowded theatre (often). As such, they are not allowed.
I didn't know upsetting someone was harmful, or going faster than them.Bubbalo wrote:
Except that speeding brings harm, as does yelling fire in a crowded theatre (often). As such, they are not allowed.
Gee and I said I would be done with this.............sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Upsetting someone doesn't, causing a stampede *does*. And apparently your average human is not, in fact, any smarter than you average bear .
And if speeding doesn't harm anyone, why is there a law preventing it?
And if speeding doesn't harm anyone, why is there a law preventing it?
Burn the US flag in front of me and you'll see a stampede that will cause harm to someone.Bubbalo wrote:
Upsetting someone doesn't, causing a stampede *does*. And apparently your average human is not, in fact, any smarter than you average bear .
And if speeding doesn't harm anyone, why is there a law preventing it?