Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5597

A little while ago they found a bunch of bodies in Long Island. They think it was a serial killer. The New York Daily News decided it would be a great idea to find out what another serial killer thought of the whole thing. Something from the article caught my eye.
Long Island serial killer Joel Rifkin says he's not impressed by the fiendish handiwork of a murderer who dumped the bodies of four women near Oak Beach.
...
He speculated that the suspect would have shared some of his experiences: growing up lonely in the suburbs, being mocked and bullied, grappling with anger.

"America breeds serial killers," Rifkin said. "You don't see any from Europe."
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crim … _li_m.html
I remember Manson made a similar comment about how American culture makes killers out of people. I think that the both of them, Manson and Rifkin, are attempting to find excuses to their own psychopathy but I do wonder if the do have a defensible point somewhere in there.

One of the top record spots for a serial kill belongs to a Englishman and the most famous serial killer, The Ripper, did come from England so I don't think Europe is completely without psychopaths but if you look at the list for serial killers as well as the per capita crime rates for the U.S. compared to similar European areas it is evident there is something wrong with the U.S. somewhere.

I, for one, do think that American culture and law does foster anger and violence to a degree though I wouldn't completely blame serial killing on either. I think our governments prohibitions on things like drinking, drug use, and prostitution does deny a lot of people outlets for their aggression. I also believe certain aspects of our culture (focus on the living in the now, denigration of intellectualism etc.) does alienate a lot of people. 

What do you think? Is there something about the U.S. that causes violence, and anger or am I am just way way off?

Last edited by Macbeth (2011-01-21 17:15:28)

lowing
Banned
+1,662|6662|USA

Macbeth wrote:

A little while ago they found a bunch of bodies in Long Island. They think it was a serial killer. The New York Daily News decided it would be a great idea to find out what another serial killer thought of the whole thing. Something from the article caught my eye.
Long Island serial killer Joel Rifkin says he's not impressed by the fiendish handiwork of a murderer who dumped the bodies of four women near Oak Beach.
...
He speculated that the suspect would have shared some of his experiences: growing up lonely in the suburbs, being mocked and bullied, grappling with anger.

"America breeds serial killers," Rifkin said. "You don't see any from Europe."
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crim … _li_m.html
I remember Manson made a similar comment about how American culture makes killers out of people. I think that the both of them, Manson and Rifkin, are attempting to find excuses to their own psychopathy but I do wonder if the do have a defensible point somewhere in there.

One of the top record spots for a serial kill belongs to a Englishman and the most famous serial killer, The Ripper, did come from England so I don't think Europe is completely without psychopaths but if you look at the list for serial killers as well as the per capita crime rates for the U.S. compared to similar European areas it is evident there is something wrong with the U.S. somewhere.

I, for one, do think that American culture and law does foster anger and violence to a degree though I wouldn't completely blame serial killing on either. I think our governments prohibitions on things like drinking, drug use, and prostitution does deny a lot of people outlets for their aggression. I also believe certain aspects of our culture (focus on the living in the now, denigration of intellectualism etc.) does alienate a lot of people. 

What do you think? Is there something about the U.S. that causes violence, and anger or am I am just way way off?
nope you are on to something....It is called envy.

someone who did not get theirs, living surrounded by others that did.
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|5190|Sydney
nvm

Last edited by Jaekus (2011-01-21 20:13:05)

11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5248|Cleveland, Ohio

Jaekus wrote:

Envy? Of what? The US??
troll
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|5190|Sydney
Anyway, it is an interesting concept. But perhaps the media attention on such things is greater in the US, and thus the attention as a result shifts the focus?
tuckergustav
...
+1,590|5925|...

Jaekus wrote:

Envy? Of what? The US??
No...I am sure he was talking about an individual being envious of another individual.

Envy isn't something that is specific to the US though.
...
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5248|Cleveland, Ohio

tuckergustav wrote:

No...I am sure he was talking about an individual being envious of another individual.
bingo
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|5190|Sydney

lowing wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

A little while ago they found a bunch of bodies in Long Island. They think it was a serial killer. The New York Daily News decided it would be a great idea to find out what another serial killer thought of the whole thing. Something from the article caught my eye.
Long Island serial killer Joel Rifkin says he's not impressed by the fiendish handiwork of a murderer who dumped the bodies of four women near Oak Beach.
...
He speculated that the suspect would have shared some of his experiences: growing up lonely in the suburbs, being mocked and bullied, grappling with anger.

"America breeds serial killers," Rifkin said. "You don't see any from Europe."
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crim … _li_m.html
I remember Manson made a similar comment about how American culture makes killers out of people. I think that the both of them, Manson and Rifkin, are attempting to find excuses to their own psychopathy but I do wonder if the do have a defensible point somewhere in there.

One of the top record spots for a serial kill belongs to a Englishman and the most famous serial killer, The Ripper, did come from England so I don't think Europe is completely without psychopaths but if you look at the list for serial killers as well as the per capita crime rates for the U.S. compared to similar European areas it is evident there is something wrong with the U.S. somewhere.

I, for one, do think that American culture and law does foster anger and violence to a degree though I wouldn't completely blame serial killing on either. I think our governments prohibitions on things like drinking, drug use, and prostitution does deny a lot of people outlets for their aggression. I also believe certain aspects of our culture (focus on the living in the now, denigration of intellectualism etc.) does alienate a lot of people. 

What do you think? Is there something about the U.S. that causes violence, and anger or am I am just way way off?
nope you are on to something....It is called envy.

someone who did not get theirs, living surrounded by others that did.
Psychopathy has little, if any, to do envy. It's much deeper than that - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|5190|Sydney

tuckergustav wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

Envy? Of what? The US??
No...I am sure he was talking about an individual being envious of another individual.

Envy isn't something that is specific to the US though.
Yeah I got that after I posted. But since sunshine had quoted I couldn't really edit my second post into my first.
tuckergustav
...
+1,590|5925|...

happens
...
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6549|Long Island, New York
Harold Shipman. John Bodkin Adams. Jack the Ripper. Luis Garavito. Pedro Lopez. Bruno Ludke. Andrei Chikatilo. Moses Sithole.

What do these things all have in common?

Spoiler (highlight to read):
Everybody knows I'm a motherfuckin' monster.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5369|London, England
I think I know why Moses Sithole became a mass murderer. His name was just too awesome not to.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
tuckergustav
...
+1,590|5925|...

related...

Has anyone else noticed the link between the number of serial killers that are known by all three names a la John Wayne Gacy and the fact that when our kids are doing something bad we call them by all three names? 

related?

i dunno, i may delete this after some thought...
...
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5369|London, England

tuckergustav wrote:

related...

Has anyone else noticed the link between the number of serial killers that are known by all three names a la John Wayne Gacy and the fact that when our kids are doing something bad we call them by all three names? 

related?

i dunno, i may delete this after some thought...
Why are you raising serial killers?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6117|eXtreme to the maX

Macbeth wrote:

What do you think? Is there something about the U.S. that causes violence, and anger or am I am just way way off?
Dunno, the US has a lot more violent crime, people resort to violence quicker, and the US has started many more wars than any other nation.
Maybe its the interbreeding, german arrogance combined with irish stupidity?
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6511|so randum

Dilbert_X wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

What do you think? Is there something about the U.S. that causes violence, and anger or am I am just way way off?
Dunno, the US has a lot more violent crime, people resort to violence quicker, and the US has started many more wars than any other nation.
Maybe its the interbreeding, german arrogance combined with irish stupidity?
*citation needed
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6662|USA

Jaekus wrote:

tuckergustav wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

Envy? Of what? The US??
No...I am sure he was talking about an individual being envious of another individual.

Envy isn't something that is specific to the US though.
Yeah I got that after I posted. But since sunshine had quoted I couldn't really edit my second post into my first.
no, not the US Jaekus why don't you give it a rest for once?.......I was wondering, because serial killers go after  specific groups and not just anyone they find, that the reason might lay in some form of failure or rejection in that persons life by that group. Killing only beautiful women, killing only black children, killing only prostitutes etc.... The  reason in the US is because you are under more social pressure to succeed in life, and failure is a hard fall here.

Last edited by lowing (2011-01-22 01:21:46)

Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6160|'straya
I don't think its necessarily envy, just any perceived injustice which has festered in the mind of a psychopath.

Honestly, I couldn't even comment on whether America is any different to the rest of the world in this regard. Its quiet possible that with a large population and a media based society, there are naturally going to be a certain number of psychopaths and the media may be responsible for publicising this behaviour and worsening the problem.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6662|USA

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

I don't think its necessarily envy, just any perceived injustice which has festered in the mind of a psychopath.

Honestly, I couldn't even comment on whether America is any different to the rest of the world in this regard. Its quiet possible that with a large population and a media based society, there are naturally going to be a certain number of psychopaths and the media may be responsible for publicising this behaviour and worsening the problem.
kinda the same thing, envy, or the "injustice" of being left out, failing, rejected, etc.....It is someone else's fault and not of his doing, so they will pay.

The media is responsible for making them celebrities giving them catchy nic-names, giving them the attention they could not get from their victims etc, yer right on that point.

Knowing how failure is viewed in the US, I think that isolation and scorn from the rest of society plays a part. I am only speculating here on all my opinions, I have no training in any of this, and certainly have no experiences to tap from.

Last edited by lowing (2011-01-22 01:55:53)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6117|eXtreme to the maX

lowing wrote:

The media is responsible for making them celebrities giving them catchy nic-names, giving them the attention they could not get from their victims etc, yer right on that point.
I'd agree with that.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|5190|Sydney

lowing wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

tuckergustav wrote:

No...I am sure he was talking about an individual being envious of another individual.

Envy isn't something that is specific to the US though.
Yeah I got that after I posted. But since sunshine had quoted I couldn't really edit my second post into my first.
no, not the US Jaekus why don't you give it a rest for once?.......I was wondering, because serial killers go after  specific groups and not just anyone they find, that the reason might lay in some form of failure or rejection in that persons life by that group. Killing only beautiful women, killing only black children, killing only prostitutes etc.... The  reason in the US is because you are under more social pressure to succeed in life, and failure is a hard fall here.
Notice you didn't address the other questions I raised, even when it's clear the edit has been made. Stop trolling please, it's bad form.

There are a range of psychological reasons why people target the groups that they do. People are a product of their environment, etc. etc. I don't think there is a definitive answer. There is much (a lot more) that we don't know about the psyche than we do. But like you say, to "glamorise" serial killers like they do, perhaps it's extra incentive to push people over the edge, almost like it's a socially acceptable thing (in a really really warped way). Dunno, but it's an interesting point.

Last edited by Jaekus (2011-01-22 06:03:59)

11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5248|Cleveland, Ohio

Dilbert_X wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

What do you think? Is there something about the U.S. that causes violence, and anger or am I am just way way off?
Dunno, the US has a lot more violent crime, people resort to violence quicker, and the US has started many more wars than any other nation.
Maybe its the interbreeding, german arrogance combined with irish stupidity?
we have more people unlike your racist island
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5369|London, England

lowing wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

tuckergustav wrote:


No...I am sure he was talking about an individual being envious of another individual.

Envy isn't something that is specific to the US though.
Yeah I got that after I posted. But since sunshine had quoted I couldn't really edit my second post into my first.
no, not the US Jaekus why don't you give it a rest for once?.......I was wondering, because serial killers go after  specific groups and not just anyone they find, that the reason might lay in some form of failure or rejection in that persons life by that group. Killing only beautiful women, killing only black children, killing only prostitutes etc.... The  reason in the US is because you are under more social pressure to succeed in life, and failure is a hard fall here.
Umm... no, not really. Success has almost nothing to do with why people become serial killers.


    * The racial demographics regarding serial killers is somewhat debatable. The majority of reported and investigated serial killers are white males, from a lower-to-middle-class background, usually in their twenties or thirties.[10][11][12] However, there are African-American, Asian, and Hispanic serial killers as well, and, according to the FBI, based on percentages of the U.S. population, whites are not more likely than other races to be serial killers.[12] Criminal profiler Pat Brown says serial killers are usually reported as white because the media typically focuses on "All-American" white and pretty female victims who were the targets of white male offenders, that crimes among minority offenders in urban communities (where crime rates are higher) are under-investigated, and that minority serial killers likely exist at the same ratios as white serial killers for the population. He believes that the "serial killers are always white" myth might have become "truth" in some research fields due to the over-reporting of white serial killers in the media.[11]
    * Serial killers are also often intelligent, with IQs in the "bright normal" range.[10][13]
    * Often, they have trouble staying employed. Usually, they have menial jobs as well.[13] Despite these usual reports, the FBI, states, "Serial murderers often seem normal; have families and a steady job."[12]
    * Other sources state: They often come from unstable families.[10][13]
    * As children, they are often abandoned by their fathers and raised by domineering mothers.[13]
    * Their families often have criminal, psychiatric and alcoholic histories.[13]
    * They were often abused — emotionally, physically and/or sexually — by a family member.[10][13]
    * They have high rates of suicide attempts.[13]
    * From an early age, many are intensely interested in voyeurism, fetishism, and sadomasochistic pornography.[13]
    * More than 60 percent wet their beds beyond the age of 12.[10][13]
    * Many are fascinated with fire starting.[10][13]
    * They are involved in sadistic activity or torturing animals.[10][13]
    * They were frequently bullied as children.[13]
    * Some were involved in petty crimes, such as theft, fraud, vandalism, dishonesty or similar offenses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killers
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6416|North Carolina
Russia has had serial killers.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5597

The quote "America breeds serial killers" may be the OP, and it is what first made me think about it, but I'm not just referring to serial killers and psychopaths.
I, for one, do think that American culture and law does foster anger and violence to a degree though I wouldn't completely blame serial killing on either. I think our governments prohibitions on things like drinking, drug use, and prostitution does deny a lot of people outlets for their aggression. I also believe certain aspects of our culture (focus on the living in the now, denigration of intellectualism etc.) does alienate a lot of people.

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