NgoDamWei
Member
+7|5683|Western North Carolina
I was never a fan of the Beatles until after they delved deeply into controlled substances but there is a classic composition which now comes to the forefront with the following news:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/17/world … mp;emc=rss

Perhaps now some will begin to understand the principles of democracy, set aside zealous differences for the greater good and bring forth the best of opportunities.

Give Peace A Chance.
Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|5721|College Park, MD
At long last...
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6575
Iraq becomes Iraqi again in 2011. Good news and long overdue. I would however caution that it has not been passed by the parliament and Shia factions are planning a 'peaceful' mass anti-US rally in Baghdad. I really hope the US and their spineless lackeys have learned their lesson this time.

And I'm fairly sure Lennon wouldn't have been smiling about any element of this debacle.

Interestingly though:

"placing US forces in Iraq under the authority of the Iraqi government "

That actually seems like real Iraqi sovereignty. Kudos.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-11-16 08:32:44)

lowing
Banned
+1,662|6671|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

Iraq becomes Iraqi again in 2011. Good news.
Ahhhhhh yes and I am sure peace in the Middle East is here at last with this event.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6575

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Iraq becomes Iraqi again in 2011. Good news.
Ahhhhhh yes and I am sure peace in the Middle East is here at last with this event.
Don't be ridiculous lowing, you know that that is decades if not centuries off.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6671|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Iraq becomes Iraqi again in 2011. Good news.
Ahhhhhh yes and I am sure peace in the Middle East is here at last with this event.
Don't be ridiculous lowing, you know that that is decades if not centuries off.
Wanna try, forever non-attainable?
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6575

lowing wrote:

Wanna try, forever non-attainable?
Wanna try forever non-attainable on planet earth? We humans are nasty little cunts. Just look at the US: how many conflicts have they been involved in in the last century? Russia? UK?

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-11-16 08:19:07)

lowing
Banned
+1,662|6671|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

Wanna try, forever non-attainable?
Wanna try forever non-attainable on planet earth? We humans are nasty little cunts. Just look at the US: how many conflicts have they been involved in in the last century? Russia? UK?
This is true, I guess what I am saying is for western society there is a faint glimmer of hope. For the ME, it is completely hopeless.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6575

lowing wrote:

This is true, I guess what I am saying is for western society there is a faint glimmer of hope. For the ME, it is completely hopeless.
I disagree. Wait until you see commodities like iron and copper get scarce: then you'll see the gloves come off. And I'm fairly sure that independent observers looking at us westerners several centuries ago would have deemed the situation 'completely hopeless' too.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-11-16 08:32:12)

usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6781

long overdue?  oh sorry it was not fast enough for you cam to rebuild a country.  lol.  christ.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6671|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

This is true, I guess what I am saying is for western society there is a faint glimmer of hope. For the ME, it is completely hopeless.
I disagree. Wait until you see commodities like iron and copper get scarce: then you'll see the gloves come off. And I'm fairly sure that independent observers looking at us westerners several centuries ago would have deemed the situation 'completely hopeless' too.
I foresee another knock down drag out battle with you Cam, but here it goes:

Throughout the centuries, the west has fought and worked for positive progress forward. Yeah, it was at times through war and conquest, but none the less the end result is a progressive society evolving for the better.

The ME is fighting to maintain a stone age belief and culture. It is not interested in peace or peaceful co-existence.
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6557|Long Island, New York

lowing wrote:

The ME is fighting to maintain a stone age belief and culture. It is not interested in peace or peaceful co-existence.
Tell that to Dubai.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6425|North Carolina

lowing wrote:

The ME is fighting to maintain a stone age belief and culture. It is not interested in peace or peaceful co-existence.
...and we're fighting to line the pockets of war profiteers and to maintain a strategic presence in the area just in case we have the urge to invade Iran.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6575

lowing wrote:

I foresee another knock down drag out battle with you Cam, but here it goes:

Throughout the centuries, the west has fought and worked for positive progress forward. Yeah, it was at times through war and conquest, but none the less the end result is a progressive society evolving for the better.

The ME is fighting to maintain a stone age belief and culture. It is not interested in peace or peaceful co-existence.
Obviously unaware of the Spanish Inquisition, witch burning, KKK, massive wars over 'who gets to be pope', burning 6 million Jews (thank the perpetrators for your rocket technology and many medical breakthroughs), forcibly using black people to pick cotton cos we were too lazy, exploiting children in third world countries for cheap labour and profit, engaging in wars that killed thousands in distant unrelated non-threatening countries just because of ideological differences, espousing 'democracy' on one hand and tacitly and sometimes overtly supporting dictatorships on the other (in our own interests)....

All the west has ever worked for is the interests of the elite and in the interests of making money, pure and simple.

You really look at 'the west' through unbelievably rose-tinted glasses, you really do. Smell our own shit lowing. It stinks. Especially coming from the country elements of whose right wing have a penchant for stone age beliefs and culture themselves (Evangelical Christianity). I don't care what you think about their culture, I have a feeling they don't care what you think about it either and quite frankly they will believe what they like and you can like it or lump it. Your irrational obsession with their beliefs is mighty odd: I guess you have to take an interest in where your next tranche of government-sponsored war profiteering is going to come from...

The bottom line is this: if you don't like their culture then you should mind your own business back in the US and if they don't like your culture then they should mind their own business over in the middle east. Anyone who is sane and rational in either culture should be free to consort with the other amiably (i.e., the vast majority).

PS If the entity of the Middle East, as you referred to it, was inherently unpeaceful, then how come the 'carnage' is limited to only a handful of countries and how come Jordan and Egypt have adhered to a peace agreement they signed with Israel for some..... 29 years?

Content to stay in the stone age? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4085486.stm --> Same shit was happening in the west about a century ago. Progress. Newsflash: things don't magically transform overnight.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-11-16 16:52:05)

Braddock
Agitator
+916|6310|Éire
It's a bit fucking rich to hear Westerners complaining about the Middle East when, as Cam pointed out, we've had a pretty dark and bloodthirsty past ourselves and when the West continually insists on fucking with their business and sticking their nose in.

It is good to hear that there is at last a date in place for the Iraqis to get their country back though.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6781

Poseidon wrote:

Tell that to Dubai.
i would but nobody really lives there except slave labor from india.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6671|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

I foresee another knock down drag out battle with you Cam, but here it goes:

Throughout the centuries, the west has fought and worked for positive progress forward. Yeah, it was at times through war and conquest, but none the less the end result is a progressive society evolving for the better.

The ME is fighting to maintain a stone age belief and culture. It is not interested in peace or peaceful co-existence.
Obviously unaware of the Spanish Inquisition, witch burning, KKK, massive wars over 'who gets to be pope', burning 6 million Jews (thank the perpetrators for your rocket technology and many medical breakthroughs), forcibly using black people to pick cotton cos we were too lazy, exploiting children in third world countries for cheap labour and profit, engaging in wars that killed thousands in distant unrelated non-threatening countries just because of ideological differences, espousing 'democracy' on one hand and tacitly and sometimes overtly supporting dictatorships on the other (in our own interests)....

All the west has ever worked for is the interests of the elite and in the interests of making money, pure and simple.

You really look at 'the west' through unbelievably rose-tinted glasses, you really do. Smell our own shit lowing. It stinks. Especially coming from the country elements of whose right wing have a penchant for stone age beliefs and culture themselves (Evangelical Christianity). I don't care what you think about their culture, I have a feeling they don't care what you think about it either and quite frankly they will believe what they like and you can like it or lump it. Your irrational obsession with their beliefs is mighty odd: I guess you have to take an interest in where your next tranche of government-sponsored war profiteering is going to come from...

The bottom line is this: if you don't like their culture then you should mind your own business back in the US and if they don't like your culture then they should mind their own business over in the middle east. Anyone who is sane and rational in either culture should be free to consort with the other amiably (i.e., the vast majority).

PS If the entity of the Middle East, as you referred to it, was inherently unpeaceful, then how come the 'carnage' is limited to only a handful of countries and how come Jordan and Egypt have adhered to a peace agreement they signed with Israel for some..... 29 years?

Content to stay in the stone age? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4085486.stm --> Same shit was happening in the west about a century ago. Progress. Newsflash: things don't magically transform overnight.
hmmmmmm, after all that, I guess you failed to read in my post that I acknowledged western civilization history before you even went off on a rant.


You are right, I do not like their religion or their culture, mainly because it is so wrapped up in their religion, and I have no use for it or any other.

  transformations do happen over night. In less than a lifetime we have gone from experiments to"see if blacks are capable of learning to fly" to electing a black president. In a historical timeline sense, over night.

I live in the here and now, and here and now, I have no use for Islamic culture. Get back with me when they are not stoning to death a woman for looking at another guy.

As far as your peace agreement, Iraq bombed the shit outta Israel in 91 for the sole purpose of egging on an attack against them, they did this knowing that any attack against an Islamic nation, no matter how justified, would draw all the Arab and Islamic nations into waging war against Israel.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6671|USA

Braddock wrote:

It's a bit fucking rich to hear Westerners complaining about the Middle East when, as Cam pointed out, we've had a pretty dark and bloodthirsty past ourselves and when the West continually insists on fucking with their business and sticking their nose in.

It is good to hear that there is at last a date in place for the Iraqis to get their country back though.
Any money that is flowing in the ME is due to western technology and advancement. Or was it the Islamic and Arab nations that developed the means to extract oil? If not for the west, the ME and its beloved Islam would still be living in mud huts, ( as if the majority of them are not still anyway). That culture does not nurture advancement in society and morality. It is only due to the west that it has anything at all.


I am not complaining about the ME, I have stated an observation about it and an opinion about it. They can live anyway they want, behead anyone they want, stone anyone they want. I really d onot give a shit. They can also keep it in the ME.
Ridir
Semper Fi!
+48|6783

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

The ME is fighting to maintain a stone age belief and culture. It is not interested in peace or peaceful co-existence.
...and we're fighting to line the pockets of war profiteers and to maintain a strategic presence in the area just in case we have the urge to invade Iran.
Not really, Iran is just an annoying piece of crap. We want a strategic presence for the oil of the region as well as the ability to maintain trade. The ME is a very violent region and we could miss out on millions if not billions of dollars of trade on the weapons market. There are other things but we want a presence for basically the old Spanish conquestadors: God, Gold and Glory. It is more complicated than that now, but give it a century and they (historians) will reduce it to something that simple.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6694|Canberra, AUS

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

It's a bit fucking rich to hear Westerners complaining about the Middle East when, as Cam pointed out, we've had a pretty dark and bloodthirsty past ourselves and when the West continually insists on fucking with their business and sticking their nose in.

It is good to hear that there is at last a date in place for the Iraqis to get their country back though.
Any money that is flowing in the ME is due to western technology and advancement. Or was it the Islamic and Arab nations that developed the means to extract oil? If not for the west, the ME and its beloved Islam would still be living in mud huts, ( as if the majority of them are not still anyway). That culture does not nurture advancement in society and morality. It is only due to the west that it has anything at all.


I am not complaining about the ME, I have stated an observation about it and an opinion about it. They can live anyway they want, behead anyone they want, stone anyone they want. I really d onot give a shit. They can also keep it in the ME.
For a long, long, long time, the ME was more civilized than Western societies.

In fact, it was this close for 'Western' society not to exist, instead replaced by a universal quasi-ME society.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6671|USA

Spark wrote:

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

It's a bit fucking rich to hear Westerners complaining about the Middle East when, as Cam pointed out, we've had a pretty dark and bloodthirsty past ourselves and when the West continually insists on fucking with their business and sticking their nose in.

It is good to hear that there is at last a date in place for the Iraqis to get their country back though.
Any money that is flowing in the ME is due to western technology and advancement. Or was it the Islamic and Arab nations that developed the means to extract oil? If not for the west, the ME and its beloved Islam would still be living in mud huts, ( as if the majority of them are not still anyway). That culture does not nurture advancement in society and morality. It is only due to the west that it has anything at all.


I am not complaining about the ME, I have stated an observation about it and an opinion about it. They can live anyway they want, behead anyone they want, stone anyone they want. I really do not give a shit. They can also keep it in the ME.
For a long, long, long time, the ME was more civilized than Western societies.

In fact, it was this close for 'Western' society not to exist, instead replaced by a universal quasi-ME society.
I guess, if you count merely existing before the west as being more civilized. Anyway at lest you did not dispute my post I see.
destruktion_6143
Was ist Loos?
+154|6646|Canada

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

Wanna try, forever non-attainable?
Wanna try forever non-attainable on planet earth? We humans are nasty little cunts. Just look at the US: how many conflicts have they been involved in in the last century? Russia? UK?
in the history of civilization, there has only been like 200+- years of global peace.
maffiaw
ph33r me 傻逼
+40|6440|Melbourne, AUS

destruktion_6143 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

Wanna try, forever non-attainable?
Wanna try forever non-attainable on planet earth? We humans are nasty little cunts. Just look at the US: how many conflicts have they been involved in in the last century? Russia? UK?
in the history of civilization, there has only been like 200+- years of global peace.
200? I thought it was more close to zero. Oh wait, it is 0.
Mr.Dooomed
Find your center.
+752|6347

"O.k, who vhould like the United States to leave, please rlaise your haand."

....

https://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/11/17/world/17iraq01-650.jpg


On topic:


New York Times Online wrote:

Ali al-Dabbagh, the Iraqi government spokesman, said the agreement allowed for the possibility that American forces could withdraw even earlier if Iraqi forces were in a position to take over security responsibilities earlier. He also said either side had the right to cancel the agreement with one year’s notice.
Either side can cancel the agreement in a year's notice? Is the article referring to the whole troop withdrawal agreement, or for the "possibility of American forces being withdrawn earlier" part of the whole thing?

Last edited by Im_Dooomed (2008-11-16 23:22:23)

Nature is a powerful force. Those who seek to subdue nature, never do so permanently.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6125|eXtreme to the maX

Lowing wrote:

The ME is fighting to maintain a stone age belief and culture. It is not interested in peace or peaceful co-existence.
The ME isn't fighting anyone to maintain anything.
Stay out of there and there is no problem for you.
Unless of course propping up Israel to maintain a stone-age prophecy is your nations priority.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

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