IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6914|Northern California
Wow.  A genuine, plugged-in, top dog source...has unleashed hell...years too late, but it's still good to finally see confirmations of facts all the liberals of this country already knew.  Talk about redemption...this is it!  I never knew he'd do something like this..something honest after endless press conferences of him shifting and dodging and outright lying.  Wow, just wow.  Goooo Scotty!  Might have to actually read a book!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/28/washi … an.html?hp
In Book, Ex-Spokesman Has Harsh Words for Bush

    PHOENIX — President Bush “convinces himself to believe what suits his needs at the moment,” and has engaged in “self-deception” to justify his political ends, Scott McClellan, the former White House press secretary, writes in a critical new memoir about his years in the West Wing.

In addition, Mr. McClellan writes, the decision to invade Iraq was a “serious strategic blunder,” and yet, in his view, it was not the biggest mistake the Bush White House made. That, he says, was “a decision to turn away from candor and honesty when those qualities were most needed.”

Mr. McClellan’s book, “What Happened: Inside the Bush White House and Washington’s Culture of Deception,” is the first negative account by a member of the tight circle of Texans around Mr. Bush. Mr. McClellan, 40, went to work for Mr. Bush when he was governor of Texas and was the White House press secretary from July 2003 to April 2006.

The revelations in the book, to be published by PublicAffairs next Tuesday, were first reported Tuesday on Politico.com by Mike Allen. Mr. Allen wrote that he bought the book at a Washington store. The New York Times also obtained an advance copy.

Mr. McClellan writes that top White House officials deceived him about the administration’s involvement in the leaking of the identity of a C.I.A. operative, Valerie Wilson. He says he did not know for almost two years that his statements from the press room that Karl Rove and I. Lewis Libby Jr. were not involved in the leak were a lie.

“Neither, I believe, did President Bush,” Mr. McClellan writes. “He too had been deceived, and therefore became unwittingly involved in deceiving me. But the top White House officials who knew the truth — including Rove, Libby, and possibly Vice President Cheney — allowed me, even encouraged me, to repeat a lie.”

He is harsh about the administration’s response to Hurricane Katrina, saying it “spent most of the first week in a state of denial” and “allowed our institutional response to go on autopilot.” Mr. McClellan blames Mr. Rove for one of the more damaging images after the hurricane: Mr. Bush’s flyover of the devastation of New Orleans. When Mr. Rove brought up the idea, Mr. McClellan writes, he and Dan Bartlett, a top communications adviser, told Mr. Bush it was a bad idea because he would appear detached and out of touch. But Mr. Rove won out, Mr. McClellan writes.

A theme in the book is that the White House suffered from a “permanent campaign” mentality, and that policy decisions were inextricably interwoven with politics.

He is critical of Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice for her role as the “sometimes too accomodating” first term national security adviser, and what he calls her deftness at protecting her reputation.

“No matter what went wrong, she was somehow able to keep her hands clean,” Mr. McClellan writes, adding that “she knew how to adapt to potential trouble, dismiss brooding problems, and come out looking like a star.”

Mr. McClellan does not exempt himself from failings — “I fell far short of living up to the kind of public servant I wanted to be” — and calls the news media “complicit enablers” in the White House’s “carefully orchestrated campaign to shape and manipulate sources of public approval” in the march to the Iraq war in 2002 and 2003.

He does have a number of kind words for Mr. Bush, particularly from the April day in 2006 when Mr. Bush met with Mr. McClellan after he learned he was being pushed out. “His charm was on full display, but it was hard to know if it was sincere or just an attempt to make me feel better,” Mr. McClellan writes. “But as he continued, something I had never seen before happened: tears were streaming down both his cheeks.”

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2008-05-27 20:14:56)

Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6828|North Carolina
I'm sure he'll be disowned by the neocons as quickly as Clarke was, but I'm glad he's coming out with this.
Deadmonkiefart
Floccinaucinihilipilificator
+177|7129
*yawln*  Something more exciting next time, please.
Vax
Member
+42|6275|Flyover country
What is so groundbreaking here ?   

People breathlessly eat up this stuff every time, "disgruntled ex-administration guy writes muckraking book, and the crowd goes wild"
People selling books have agendas too.


BTW, was it not already established that it was Richard Armitage that leaked Plame's name to that columnist Novak ?

Last edited by Vax (2008-05-27 21:04:54)

BN
smells like wee wee
+159|7191

Vax wrote:

People selling books have agendas too.
to tell the truth?
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6828|North Carolina

Vax wrote:

What is so groundbreaking here ?   

People breathlessly eat up this stuff every time, "disgruntled ex-administration guy writes muckraking book, and the crowd goes wild"
People selling books have agendas too.


BTW, was it not already established that it was Richard Armitage that leaked Plame's name to that columnist Novak ?
Armitage's guilt is heavily dependent on whether or not the investigations were manipulated by the government itself.  Armitage could just as easily be a fall guy for the administration.

The problem is that, when investigations go this high up the food chain, the abuse of power is always suspect.  I mean, who really has the power to prosecute the president?  Clinton got away with perjury right in the public eye, so who's to say Bush didn't get away with similar crimes behind closed doors?

We like to believe that no one is above the law, but in all practicality, there are several people in power that basically are above the law.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6965|Texas - Bigger than France
Holy crap.  My brother-in-law was/is friends with this guy.  I need to see if he's still talking to this dude.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6834|'Murka

BN wrote:

Vax wrote:

People selling books have agendas too.
to tell the truth?
Their version of it...at least the one that will sell the most copies.

I don't know if people here realize it, but the press secretary isn't part of the policy deliberation process, decision-making process, or anything else. They are the mouthpiece to the media. They are more of an outsider than an insider.

But here is a revelation that the administration worked to bring the public sentiment in line with their policy...shocking! The first time in history that this has ever occurred! Now Bush stands no chance of re-election!
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7180|Argentina

BN wrote:

Vax wrote:

People selling books have agendas too.
to tell the truth?
Yeah, what a fucker.  He should lie like GWB.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6914|Northern California

FEOS wrote:

BN wrote:

Vax wrote:

People selling books have agendas too.
to tell the truth?
Their version of it...at least the one that will sell the most copies.

I don't know if people here realize it, but the press secretary isn't part of the policy deliberation process, decision-making process, or anything else. They are the mouthpiece to the media. They are more of an outsider than an insider.

But here is a revelation that the administration worked to bring the public sentiment in line with their policy...shocking! The first time in history that this has ever occurred! Now Bush stands no chance of re-election!
Nobody here is saying the press secretary was a policy maker or anything like it.  This article is probably the biggest, most truthful, least deniable (by the yaps supporting bush), and most damaging from one of Bush's inner circle.  McClellan was with Bush for years, closely, and was his friend, and was used, abused, and now he's spilling the beans because this white house is as secretive, as deceptive, and dishonest as they can get.  So yes, this is shocking and revealing and there's no reason to discount it like DBrinson thinks suggesting he has an agenda..please.  What agenda?  To lose all his neocon friends he thought were his friends?  TO be made into a liar by ensuing discrediting reports on Fox Noise by Rove and others ready to blast this little dude out of the water?

He is playing a very honorable sacrificial lamb for a good cause.  THis is something positive from the White House...even though he's been off the job for a couple years doing this book deal.  I hope he makes a killing since he'll never get political work again after this.
CC-Marley
Member
+407|7252

BN wrote:

Vax wrote:

People selling books have agendas too.
to tell the truth?
Haha! I almost snarfed my coffee. Truth usually doesn't sell books on its own.
13rin
Member
+977|6902
He's got an agenda and I don't buy it.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6914|Northern California

DBBrinson1 wrote:

He's got an agenda and I don't buy it.
Then by all means, please tell us why you think he's making it all up...despite the mountains of evidence he's actually telling the truth?  This should be good.  What is his gain from exercising his agenda?  A book deal?  He got that, regardless of what he said or didn't say.  What else?  Some cutting edge new PR job?  A job at CNN?  George Soros' new PR man?
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6965|Texas - Bigger than France

IRONCHEF wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

He's got an agenda and I don't buy it.
Then by all means, please tell us why you think he's making it all up...despite the mountains of evidence he's actually telling the truth?  This should be good.  What is his gain from exercising his agenda?  A book deal?  He got that, regardless of what he said or didn't say.  What else?  Some cutting edge new PR job?  A job at CNN?  George Soros' new PR man?
Well for one, the Press Secretary for an extremely unpopular president isn't going to be as employable as a Press Secretary for an extremely unpopular president who's sticking to his principles rather than towing the party line.

It's easy really - money - and a career on the lecture circuit.

So yes, he does have something to gain...but it takes cajones to do what he's doing.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6914|Northern California

Pug wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

He's got an agenda and I don't buy it.
Then by all means, please tell us why you think he's making it all up...despite the mountains of evidence he's actually telling the truth?  This should be good.  What is his gain from exercising his agenda?  A book deal?  He got that, regardless of what he said or didn't say.  What else?  Some cutting edge new PR job?  A job at CNN?  George Soros' new PR man?
Well for one, the Press Secretary for an extremely unpopular president isn't going to be as employable as a Press Secretary for an extremely unpopular president who's sticking to his principles rather than towing the party line.

It's easy really - money - and a career on the lecture circuit.

So yes, he does have something to gain...but it takes cajones to do what he's doing.
So is it lies he's spouting, or is he corroborating what the whole friggen world already knows but just hasn't had confirmed yet from someone "inner" enough like Scotty is?
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6965|Texas - Bigger than France

IRONCHEF wrote:

So is it lies he's spouting, or is he corroborating what the whole friggen world already knows but just hasn't had confirmed yet from someone "inner" enough like Scotty is?
Who knows.  I can't blame the guy for writing a book.  He's surely going to be questioned on motivation because he's not blowing the whistle as part of some sort of crusade.

However, I did just get an email back from my brother-in-law, who hung around with Scott when he was in Austin (in-laws are family friends with Carole Strayhorn, ex-Texas Comptroller who's Scott's mom).

I wrote: "Hey is this the guy who got you into the White House for the photo-op with the Prez?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/28/washi … an.html?hp

His response:
"Yep, sounds like he's out to make some money."

Ps. My brother in law has always hated Bush.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6914|Northern California
From what I've read, the book isn't exactly a hack job on the White House.  It's actually got a focus of his career in it's entirety.  But because the media only likes the sleeze, they found value in his remarks on the WH staff.  My guess is if he was getting a book deal "just for money" and making up things (that we all know already existed pretty much), then the book would be a little more focused on that.  He does have many favorable things to say about Bush and other staff.

But regardless, I have no doubt the things he's saying are true.  Agenda or not, how could the things he's saying be fabrications?  What gain is there in such fabrications..especially any that are bogus and not already known by the general public?

Be nice if he was subpoena'd for testimony on the US attorney firings.  I want nothing more than to see ROVE yanked and frog marched....followed by the imprisonment and hanging of bush and cheney for their crimes against all that which is good.
13rin
Member
+977|6902

IRONCHEF wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

He's got an agenda and I don't buy it.
Then by all means, please tell us why you think he's making it all up...despite the mountains of evidence he's actually telling the truth?  This should be good.  What is his gain from exercising his agenda?  A book deal?  He got that, regardless of what he said or didn't say.  What else?  Some cutting edge new PR job?  A job at CNN?  George Soros' new PR man?
You answered it yourself earlier.  I don't even need a word to tell you merely one of these:

$
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6914|Northern California
So are you going to keep avoiding my question..  Is he telling lies for money, or telling the truth for money?
Vax
Member
+42|6275|Flyover country

IRONCHEF wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

He's got an agenda and I don't buy it.
Then by all means, please tell us why you think he's making it all up...despite the mountains of evidence he's actually telling the truth?  This should be good.  What is his gain from exercising his agenda?  A book deal?  He got that, regardless of what he said or didn't say.  What else?  Some cutting edge new PR job?  A job at CNN?  George Soros' new PR man?
Making all of WHAT up ? Again, what is so revealing?  The Bush administration is political, crony oriented, PR driven ? Big shock there.

Yes he wrote a muckraking book at a time when there are hoards of people who hate Bush (like you) and who are waiting to buy this stuff up in droves. Please, don't you know how this works by now ? It's a ready made market, and he is in a perfect position to jump into it.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6914|Northern California
Was it known that ROVE directly participated in the firings of US Attorneys?  No.  It is officially refuted by the WH and media...despite the public knowing otherwise.  Now we know officially that he was.  THere's one example.  And yes, it's big..not because it's a tabloid fetish to read this crap, but because this is a huge deal legally and nationally since they have avoided congressional scrutiny by yet further deception, abuse of power, and other illegalities.  His testimony will likely be sought after now that his book is public...and I doubt he'll recuse himself.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6965|Texas - Bigger than France

IRONCHEF wrote:

From what I've read, the book isn't exactly a hack job on the White House.  It's actually got a focus of his career in it's entirety.  But because the media only likes the sleeze, they found value in his remarks on the WH staff.  My guess is if he was getting a book deal "just for money" and making up things (that we all know already existed pretty much), then the book would be a little more focused on that.  He does have many favorable things to say about Bush and other staff.

But regardless, I have no doubt the things he's saying are true.  Agenda or not, how could the things he's saying be fabrications?  What gain is there in such fabrications..especially any that are bogus and not already known by the general public?

Be nice if he was subpoena'd for testimony on the US attorney firings.  I want nothing more than to see ROVE yanked and frog marched....followed by the imprisonment and hanging of bush and cheney for their crimes against all that which is good.
Tell me, how many national inquirier type news outlets do we have here in America?  Don't tell me there isn't a market for sensationalism.

Whether it is true or not, someone is going to question the validity because..."how could there be fabrications?...What gain is there?"...Well, to start out, a book and a cushy career on the lecturing circuit.

It's sad really the guy's book career will likely end up twisted as an informant.

Come to think of it, according to your last post, he's really writing about his career.  According to the NYT article you posted, it's all about muckraking.
Vax
Member
+42|6275|Flyover country
We know "officially" now...Ok fine I'd like to hear his evidence. There is a legal term for what this seems like, it's called hearsay. 
He says Rove met with Libby on the Plame thing,  is that his "official" proof ? Was he in the meeting or did he just see them meet ?

I guess if his testimony becomes sought after in some legal case, you may have a point, but somehow I don't see it happening.

How long did Fitzgerald and the grand jury investigate the Plame deal ? And they got what, Libby, on some technicalities.

As much as you hate these guys, and love to hear anything that somehow corroborates your view that they are criminals, I don't think there is anything of substance here.
13rin
Member
+977|6902

IRONCHEF wrote:

So are you going to keep avoiding my question..  Is he telling lies for money, or telling the truth for money?
Lies for money.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6914|Northern California

DBBrinson1 wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

So are you going to keep avoiding my question..  Is he telling lies for money, or telling the truth for money?
Lies for money.
Thanks for answering.  Now, would you mind listing one of the lies for money he gives?

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